Wall of silence broken at state's Muslim public school

Originally posted by greeneyedleo
reply to post by The Nighthawk

 

Just so you know....this story was all over the news yesterday, so its not the "columnists story version". It is the version released to the public.

Grant it, I saw it mentioned on Fox news numerous times.

[edit on 10-4-2008 by greeneyedleo]

That's fine. I'm not plugged in to the mass media. I don't have cable or satellite, so most of my news comes through online/radio sources.

One other thing that no one has mentioned is that the reporter and the poor substitute teacher that helped expose all this probably already has a "fatwas" issued against them and have had to go into hiding. Hope they and their families also have police protection from any fanatical muslims that get ahold of this story.

Look at what's happening in the UK. Well, it's also starting here.

What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

Taxpayer money should not go to religious schools, unless it's through vouchers for parents who want to put their kids in private schools.

Public schools shouldn't be promoting religions - any of them.

reply to post by centurion1211


Have anything to back that up, Centurion? I mean regarding fatwas against this teacher?

I am a [non-church going] Christian and I do NOT think there should be any religion in schools....not even Christianity taught religions.

One of the many reasons why I think this, is that even within the religion of Christianity, there are many different opinions/beliefs. I certainly wouldn't want myself or my kids to be subject to some belief that I don't believe in....even under the guise of Christianity.

However, I also think that kids should be allowed to practice their religion - no matter what it is - w/out being stopped. If a kid wants to pray before eating his lunch - he should be allowed to do so. If a kid wants to wear a cross or a pentagram around his neck. He should be allowed to do so. If kids want to hold a bible study group...or an Islam group...or a gay group...or whatever group after school in an empty class room, they should be allowed to do so. And the list goes on.

As long as the school is not endorsing it...teaching it...pushing it, etc

Originally posted by greeneyedleo
I am a [non-church going] Christian and I do NOT think there should be any religion in schools....not even Christianity taught religions.

One of the many reasons why I think this, is that even within the religion of Christianity, there are many different opinions/beliefs. I certainly wouldn't want myself or my kids to be subject to some belief that I don't believe in....even under the guise of Christianity.

An excellent point. Look at the rift between mainstream Catholicism and what is generally considered Protestantism (is that a word?); and then all the different separate sects of each, plus Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, etc. "Christianity" is so splintered the only things they can all agree on are Jesus, and not getting along with each other. Islam is actually the same way--differing specific doctrines, mostly based along ancient tribal lines. With all these differences of opinion how could any public school even try and sort it all out?

However, I also think that kids should be allowed to practice their religion - no matter what it is - w/out being stopped. If a kid wants to pray before eating his lunch - he should be allowed to do so. If a kid wants to wear a cross or a pentagram around his neck. He should be allowed to do so. If kids want to hold a bible study group...or an Islam group...or a gay group...or whatever group after school in an empty class room, they should be allowed to do so. And the list goes on.

When I was in high school this was the case. There was a Bible-study group that met before classes started in the morning in one of the classrooms, kids prayed openly when they wished (excepting, of course, in the middle of class) and could wear any religious symbol they wanted. My understanding is, those rights haven't changed much. What's at issue is, whether the school itself, as an agent of the State, is promoting one religion, or one sect of a religion, over other religions or sects (or other, non-religious philosophies). I have no problem with public schools teaching the basic principles of the world's varied religions in order to educate children. I would even go so far as to accept elective classes that go deeper into religions and their teachings as part of a philosophical studies program, perhaps with some kind of parents' consent form. But, structuring the entire school day around a particular religion's ceremonies and "encouraging" (forcing) kids to participate is a blatant violation of the separation of Church and State.

One question though: Where are the parents of the kids attending this school? Do they condone this? Are all the students' families Muslim?

reply to post by The Nighthawk


I imagine most of the parents do condone this. If not, it would have been exposed WAY faster. The issue here then, is the "public funding" angle.

Erm, I'm guessing that most of the students at the Muslim Public school are Muslim? If so, what's the problem? Are there no Muslim taxpayers in the US?

Children should be sent to school and educated, Latin, Ancient Greek, Sciences, etc. Not waste time pursuing theology...... unless of course it's a religious school (well duh!). Oh, and get rid of all that flag waving jingoist foolishness, it's pretty funny but also a bit creepy.

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
reply to post by centurion1211

 

Have anything to back that up, Centurion? I mean regarding fatwas against this teacher?

Nothing yet. Just speculation based on how (some, not all) muslims in Europe reacted to perceived slights to islam.

I really hope muslims don't start pulling that BS here.

Double post for some reason ...

[edit on 4/10/2008 by centurion1211]

Originally posted by DenyAllKnowledge
Erm, I'm guessing that most of the students at the Muslim Public school are Muslim? If so, what's the problem? Are there no Muslim taxpayers in the US?

Remember? It's about equal rights and a level playing field. Christian taxpayers - and there are millions of them in the U.S. - do not get to have publicly funded Christian schools, so no religion gets to have that. Besides that, it's simply the law.

And to help you understand this better, following your line of thinking, then the U.S. taxpayers would have to fund schools for any and every theology ever dreamed up. Yes, public schools only for buddhists, anamists, hindus, wiccans, devil worshippers and on and on. Maybe athiests wouldn't even be able to go to school ...

[edit on 4/10/2008 by centurion1211]

Here's something that I've always wondered. When I went to school in Idaho, both in junior high and high school, we had seminary classes offered for the Mormon students. It's been a few years, heh, so I can't remember the specifics, but we used to always scoff and rolls our eyes at how, in high school, some Mormon kids spent all afternoon in seminary classes.

As an adult I always wondered, how was that legal? Were they just classes offered out at the high school (they had their own building for the classes), but weren't credited classes? But then the school still had to allow them the time out of normal classes to go to them.

So it makes me wonder; do such things still go on? How many other schools have semi-covert religious teaching going on?

So I'm not surprised to hear that this school in MN exists. But it reminded me of my own questions.

the real question is islamo facism the voice of a new generation.

They need to simply shutter the school until it can come up with its own funds to run itself as a private school.

What has the state done about this blatant violation of Church and State?

You know this is what is being taught there..

answering-islam.org...

I lived in this town of Inver Grove Heights, MN growing up, and until I was about 26 (I am 35 now) - just 10 minutes south of the Twin Cities. This school, before it became a charter school, was a public elementary school, and is basically owned by the tax payers of IGH. It is located within ISD 199. The only reason it was ever turned into a charter school in the first place was because the school board closed the school due to low enrollment. The charter school was opened up after the idea of a charter school came up. The outcome was this particular charter school renting it for a while. I'm unsure if they still rent it, or have purchased it since. And not that it really means anything, but the school is in a run-down area of that town, about a block from a strip club, 2 bars, and manily commercial & industrial business. At the top of the hil from the school is residential, and not much better.

My take on this, as is with several radio talk show hosts in the Twin Cities, that the principal is just making excuses and doesnt want to raise an American Flag at a Muslim School. Believe it or not, many people in the Twin Cites are pretty upset over this and want the school shut down. The one thing I didnt see mentioned here thought is that their reason for allowing prayer in school? Because if they dont, they will get sued for not allowing a person to practice their religion, or denying them prayer when it is required for their religion. Regardless, something stinks, and it's not just the Mississippi River 3 blocks away.

As for the sub teacher, she is not in hiding, and was interviewed on a local radio talk show just a few days ago. The reporter is not in hiding either.

As for being a liberal state? Maybe it would appear that way in some ways. I just see it as we have a group of screwed up law makers & politicians who think they know whats best for us residents. Luckly that's started to change in the last 2 or so years. Hopefully that wont be a fad.






[edit on 10-4-2008 by Spoontoad]

[edit on 10-4-2008 by Spoontoad]

not to focus on the messenger but the 'reporter' Katherine Kersten is a unrelenting Right Winger who's not a reporter but a frequent contributor to the Op Ed page... she has had the honor of being "Minnesota's worst paid writer"
www.mediatransparency.org...

anyway, not that I endorse taxpayer religious schools, but lets make sure we have our facts straight. this is the equivalent of a Glen Beck news break.

oh, and while we're up in arms.
10.9% of all grant money Bush had granted in 2006.($2.1 Billion) has gone to his 'army of compassion' in faith based groups, and with none of that money going to non-Christian organizations.

[edit on 10-4-2008 by fvk12]

Originally posted by fvk12
not to focus on the messenger but the 'reporter' Katherine Kersten is a unrelenting Right Winger who's not a reporter but a frequent contributor to the Op Ed page... she has had the honor of being "Minnesota's worst paid writer"
www.mediatransparency.org...

But since you are, what if she's got the story nailed this time? What do your veiled innuendos and attempts at deflection say to that?

anyway, not that I endorse taxpayer religious schools, but lets make sure we have our facts straight. this is the equivalent of a Glen Beck news break.

Did you read the whole thread? Guess not because earlier posts said it has been in the local news there for awhile.

oh, and while we're up in arms.
10.9% of all grant money Bush had granted in 2006.($2.1 Billion) has gone to his 'army of compassion' in faith based groups, and with none of that money going to non-Christian organizations.

[edit on 10-4-2008 by fvk12]

Oh and while we are again trying to act as a smokescreen and apologist for the illegal activities of this school, what has that to do with this story except give us another rendition of the old excuse often given by libs when caught - "well, the other guy did it, too". As I said earlier, wrong is wrong - whoever is doing it.

[edit on 4/10/2008 by centurion1211]

Look for the Saudi funded CAIR (Council of American Islamic Relations) to sound of on this soon. The CAIR is very powerful in the media right now seems like i've heard (don't have a source atm) that most media and many news outlets have the CAIR vet stories that involve anything negative about muslims in America. Wonder how the bad guys in Sum of All Fears got turned from muslims to Nazis? The CAIR of course.

Given how events are playing out in europe, honestly it was just a matter of time before we started seeing the same sorts of obfusication in the U.S.

I think the line that Zaman stated that he did not know how the flag pole worked basically says it all....It's also very typical of the way CAIR operates...when confronted with the truth of matters, it becomes a three card monty game!...meanwhile as authorities try to sift through what is and what isn't really going on...bang on to the scene the CAIR attorneys come....

You watch, as typical....this will get lost in a cloud of denials, buried under a mountian of legal paperwork, and in the end anyone who is left trying to tell the truth will find themselves faced with a libel suit....

This is exactly why ALL religion needs to be banned from ALL schools. Yes, Christians that includes you, I'm not going to have any sympathy for the Christians regarding this Islamic school... why? Because the Christians are destroying the education system with this creationism stuff.

If you want to keep pushing that kind of counter-productive stuff, expect allot more of these other religions creeping into your neighborhoods and taking over... they are after all, playing by your example.