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Can you SIN while lucidly dreaming?

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posted on Apr, 10 2008 @ 11:13 AM
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Originally posted by deadline527
The other day I had a dream where I conversed lucidly with a friend who died many years ago - I asked him questions about his death, what its like to be dead, and general questions you would ask someone on the other side.

I have had spiritual experiences, talked to friends who passed away.....

I just wanted to know if what you may do in dreams, even no matter how bad, could possibly equate to a sin?


[edit on 10-4-2008 by deadline527]


Your statements that I posted above nullifies your entire question put to this forum.

You are discussing 'conversing with the dead' which is a big no no in the christian faith and certainly a sin.

You are postulating 'killing the ducks' since there would be no consequence for your actions. This would be much less of a 'sin' than the prior sin of necromancy.

However, to go back to the first quandry I put forth to you....
Lucid Dreaming isn't reconcilable with the Christian faith.
From your 'western viewpoint', your framing of the word 'sin' and your tag line here, I must assume you are some sort of Christian.

I propose that what you are having here is a crisis of faith.

The reconciliation of that crisis is a long road indeed.


[edit on 10-4-2008 by pavlovsdog]




posted on Apr, 10 2008 @ 11:14 AM
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Originally posted by Throbber
reply to post by deadline527
 


Hey, even i set myself a limit.



That's not to say i realised all that i am telling you now when i first started to dream though lucidity.


I have had lucid dreams for about the last ten to fifteen years now, but within the last three or four I have really been able to grasp the vastness of what you can do. It took me forever to be able to fly to the moon, now I can go as I please.. It took me forever to move mountains, and now its like picking up a pebble. And with this amount of power, if you desire to strike someone where they stand or condemn them to infernal fire... its possible, yet does that equate to still being wrong?



posted on Apr, 10 2008 @ 11:18 AM
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Originally posted by pavlovsdog

Originally posted by deadline527
The other day I had a dream where I conversed lucidly with a friend who died many years ago - I asked him questions about his death, what its like to be dead, and general questions you would ask someone on the other side.

I have had spiritual experiences, talked to friends who passed away.....

I just wanted to know if what you may do in dreams, even no matter how bad, could possibly equate to a sin?


[edit on 10-4-2008 by deadline527]


Your statements that I posted above nullifies your entire question put to this forum.

You are discussing 'conversing with the dead' which is a big no no in the christian faith and certainly a sin.

You are postulating 'killing the ducks' since there would be no consequence for your actions. This would be much less of a 'sin' than the prior sin of necromancy.

However, to go back to the first quandry I put forth to you....
Lucid Dreaming isn't reconcilable with the Christian faith.
From your 'western viewpoint', your framing of the word 'sin' and your user name here, I must assume you are some sort of Christian.

I propose that what you are having here is a crisis of faith.

The reconciliation of that crisis is a long road indeed.


But what if you have no control over when you become lucid in a dream? I find myself out of my body on my floor quite often, and am able to stand up and proceed as wanted in my dream - yet able to do anything humanly, and inhumanly possible.

As for talking with the dead, I dont believe I really did. I am not sure if what I talk to in my lucid dreams is the dead, because I have talked to my parents as well, I have sat on the bed and asked my dad if he can try to remember the conversatiion for when I wake up, but to no avail. When talking with my passed away friend, it was almost like being back in time - his house was the house he used to live in, everything was the same I remember..

[edit on 10-4-2008 by deadline527]



posted on Apr, 10 2008 @ 11:20 AM
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Originally posted by zerop
How do you know for sure that the reality you're currently experiencing isn't some kind of lucid dream or simulation?


For higher dimensional entities, this may well be the case.

The closer you are to the 'chaos' dimension, the fewer rules there are.

I suppose there would be some theoretical contemparies out there who might find my choice of putting Chaotic energy 'at the top' so to speak fairly abhorrent and disturbing, but tbh it's the only way it makes sense to me.

Not that i'm saying the universe nessecarily needs to make sense - after all, for all i know in terms of space-time the dimensions may infact be next to each other in seperate universes, but exist within the same space.

Or of course, all the dimensions could exist within one universe, and that there are several universes with different dimensional priorities (hench, parallel universes).

Tis' a fun thing to think about once you get started.



posted on Apr, 10 2008 @ 11:23 AM
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reply to post by deadline527
 


The simple fact that you are asking this question shows you the answer.



posted on Apr, 10 2008 @ 11:25 AM
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Originally posted by Throbber

Originally posted by zerop
How do you know for sure that the reality you're currently experiencing isn't some kind of lucid dream or simulation?


For higher dimensional entities, this may well be the case.

The closer you are to the 'chaos' dimension, the fewer rules there are.

I suppose there would be some theoretical contemparies out there who might find my choice of putting Chaotic energy 'at the top' so to speak fairly abhorrent and disturbing, but tbh it's the only way it makes sense to me.

Not that i'm saying the universe nessecarily needs to make sense - after all, for all i know in terms of space-time the dimensions may infact be next to each other in seperate universes, but exist within the same space.

Or of course, all the dimensions could exist within one universe, and that there are several universes with different dimensional priorities (hench, parallel universes).

Tis' a fun thing to think about once you get started.


I could talk about other dimensions, realities, and so on until my last breath. I have always been fascinated with the after life, the before life, and all that is in between. Which also is why I feel so privileged to be able to lucidly dream.



posted on Apr, 10 2008 @ 11:25 AM
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Allow me to ask you a question; Would you strike down a truly wise man if he was disagreeing with you?

Even if in a dream?

edit; even the cruellest, most heinous of all individuals that walk this earth, would acknowledge that such a person would hold some value.

What that value means to the individual, is down to the individual in question.

By all means, the cruellest, most heinous of individuals may choose to allow the wise man to live, if only to serve as a pet.

It is the reasons for why we choose not to do things, that one may judge oneself.

[edit on 10-4-2008 by Throbber]



posted on Apr, 10 2008 @ 11:27 AM
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Originally posted by Throbber
Allow me to ask you a question; Would you strike down a truly wise man if he was disagreeing with you?

Even if in a dream?


See, that is where the ethical dilemma comes into play. If I did, because it is a dream, is it still wrong? Although when I am lucky enough to converse with others in my dream I make the most of the chance and ask questions that I feel you cant really get true answers to in this reality. Although, I do not know if the answers I am getting in the dream state are true either...



posted on Apr, 10 2008 @ 11:29 AM
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Originally posted by deadline527
Although when I am lucky enough to converse with others in my dream I make the most of the chance


Why?

[edit on 10-4-2008 by Throbber]



posted on Apr, 10 2008 @ 11:32 AM
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Originally posted by Throbber

Originally posted by deadline527
Although when I am lucky enough to converse with others in my dream I make the most of the chance


Why?

[edit on 10-4-2008 by Throbber]


Because it dosent happen much, sadly. Usually the way it starts is I feel as if I am going to roll off my bed, when proceeding I slowly float to the ground, wait a few seconds, then open my eyes. I am usually on my stomach or my back. At first, its almost like being in a swimming pool - I swim out of my room through my door, wall, or ceiling then proceed outside.

Very rarely do I encounter other people. Occasionally the air is almost prismatic in the way it sparkles many different colors, other times its hard to see anything.


Edit : Although sometimes its almost like an extreme drop, like your floor falls out from under you and you start falling. This usually is too sudden and I end up waking up startled. Occasionally I can go with it and eventually enter a lucid state.

[edit on 10-4-2008 by deadline527]



posted on Apr, 10 2008 @ 11:33 AM
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Originally posted by deadline527

Because it dosent happen much, sadly.

Very rarely do I encounter other people.


Do you feel it is a waste to ignore that opportunity to learn wisdom?

Would you not say that to waste such an opportunity, would be wrong?



posted on Apr, 10 2008 @ 11:36 AM
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Originally posted by Throbber

Originally posted by deadline527

Because it dosent happen much, sadly.

Very rarely do I encounter other people.


Do you feel it is a waste to ignore that opportunity to learn wisdom?

Would you not say that to waste such an opportunity, would be wrong?


Hmm... Actually, I would say yes. Why deny wisdom when it presents itself? Some people spend their whole lives searching for wisdom, and yet never find it until death. Others are presented the opportunity yet fail to embrace it.



posted on Apr, 10 2008 @ 11:38 AM
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I do not understand the concept of 'sin' where i am now, i see only a thin line between waste and cultivation of knowledge and wisdom.

Greed is Waste, Lust is Waste, Pride is Waste, and so forth.

Money that you take, may have been better spent elsewhere, a Momentary desire of the flesh that you take, may have been better appreciated elsewhere, Pride that you take, in something you do, may have been better placed elsewhere.

The concept of "I" is eradicated.

The opposite of Greed?

Charity.

The opposite of Lust?

Love.

The opposite of Pride?

Humility.

The three things i have listed - Charity, Love and Humility, are not wasteful things.



posted on Apr, 10 2008 @ 11:41 AM
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Heh... i'm starting to rant.

I feel like my old self again.




posted on Apr, 10 2008 @ 11:41 AM
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Originally posted by Throbber
I do not understand the concept of 'sin' where i am now, i see only a thin line between waste and cultivation of knowledge and wisdom.

Greed is Waste, Lust is Waste, Pride is Waste, and so forth.

Money that you take, may have been better spent elsewhere, a Momentary desire of the flesh that you take, may have been better appreciated elsewhere, Pride that you take, in something you do, may have been better placed elsewhere.

The concept of "I" is eradicated.

The opposite of Greed?

Charity.

The opposite of Lust?

Love.

The opposite of Pride?

Humility.

The three things i have listed - Charity, Love and Humility, are not wasteful things.



I really do like the way you think. Very informative, and exactly how I try to live every minute of my life. I put others before myself often.

But, ultimately in the sense of the topic..

If you were to be greedy, lustful, and have excessive pride in a dream - yet have charity, love, and humility throughout my whole life...

Does that equate to still being wrong? Or are we still accountable for the actions we take KNOWINGLY in our dreams?

This does not pertain to dreams where you are not in control, btw.

[edit on 10-4-2008 by deadline527]



posted on Apr, 10 2008 @ 11:50 AM
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It is up to you as to whether you would choose to pursue wisdom and knowledge, or something more base, more simple.

There are advantages and disadvantages to both sides, it is down to the individual to decide which side holds more advantages, and which side holds more disadvantages.

For those who possess intelligence it is a tricky road to walk down - to see all and yet understand little, it is like looking into a kaleidescope and trying to focus on every colour at once, failing to understand that the mind is incapable of such a feat without practice.

I cannot tell you which is the 'right' choice anymore than i can tell you which is the 'wrong' choice.

I can't prove it, either way.



edit; At the very most, i can share my experience and knowledge.


[edit on 10-4-2008 by Throbber]



posted on Apr, 10 2008 @ 11:54 AM
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Originally posted by deadline527

I put others before myself often.


Thinking this way AND thinking about slaughtering animals is very strange indeed.



If you were to be greedy, lustful, and have excessive pride in a dream - yet have charity, love, and humility throughout my whole life...

Does that equate to still being wrong? Or are we still accountable for the actions we take KNOWINGLY in our dreams?

This does not pertain to dreams where you are not in control, btw.

[edit on 10-4-2008 by deadline527]


Here you go again back to 'held accountable for your sins' line of thought

Who or what is holding you accountable?

Furthermore, saying you talked to the dead - until you were called on it and recanted isnt exactly kosher with me either. Sorta puts your entire story about your experiences in question.



posted on Apr, 10 2008 @ 11:56 AM
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Originally posted by Throbber
For those who possess intelligence it is a tricky road to walk down - to see all and yet understand little, it is like looking into a kaleidescope and trying to focus on every colour at once, failing to understand that the mind is incapable of such a feat without practice.


Such a great analogy!

Its it better to have all the knowledge in the world (to see every color of the kaleidoscope) or to focus on one color and understand it to no end?



posted on Apr, 10 2008 @ 11:59 AM
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Originally posted by pavlovsdog

Originally posted by deadline527

I put others before myself often.


Thinking this way AND thinking about slaughtering animals is very strange indeed.



If you were to be greedy, lustful, and have excessive pride in a dream - yet have charity, love, and humility throughout my whole life...

Does that equate to still being wrong? Or are we still accountable for the actions we take KNOWINGLY in our dreams?

This does not pertain to dreams where you are not in control, btw.

[edit on 10-4-2008 by deadline527]


Here you go again back to 'held accountable for your sins' line of thought

Who or what is holding you accountable?

Furthermore, saying you talked to the dead - until you were called on it and recanted isnt exactly kosher with me either. Sorta puts your entire story about your experiences in question.


I diddnt recant. The person I spoke to IS dead, he passed away about five years ago. He was my best friend since childhood and we did everything together. In my lucid dream, I found myself at his house, proceeded up to his room and saw him laying in his bed. I then asked him what it was like to be dead, if he missed me or anyone else, and other things you would normally ask. But is this speaking to the dead? I dont know.. I diddnt do any elaborate ritual to summon a spirit, I merely spoke to a passed away friend while in a lucid dream.

And as for the ducks, I wasnt the person who brought them up, I merely commented and used them for an analogy.

[edit on 10-4-2008 by deadline527]



posted on Apr, 10 2008 @ 12:02 PM
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reply to post by deadline527
 


I'm fairly certain there are a few sayings that would share perspective on that point.

Infact, i'll share with you a little something i've learned - it isn't big or grand, but a simple truth.

There are countless tidbits of wisdom that have filtered into society, from sources unknown - sayings like "Don't put all your eggs in once basket" and "Curiosity killed the cat" are very obvious forms of this; they can also be used as a metaphor for a great many different situations.

Oh, for the lost art of simple wisdom!

edit; as to your question, it takes experience and understanding to know the answer.

Remember, the path is not surrounded by limitations, you can walk back to where you started, or simply cut across the lawn to a different path.

This does, however - lead to gaps in your understanding and experience, just like any learned skill or trait, and it takes time to truly appreciate how much you can lose or forget.

"Walk before you can run" is another one.


[edit on 10-4-2008 by Throbber]





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