Can you SIN while lucidly dreaming?

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posted on Apr, 10 2008 @ 10:30 AM
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I'm not sure how far I want to take you into this rabbit hole that you are opening. But you are posed on the brink of diving into one that I dont think you are ready to experience

I'm not trying to be condescending in any way, but from your statements I can only deduce that you don't have a broad reaching spiritual education. This is not in and of itself a bad thing, only a sign of spiritual immaturity.

Lucid dreaming is an attempt to enter a transcendent state.

To be as brief as possibly, I'd like to point you in a particular direction and encourage you to do some research on your own. Consider this quote


The experience of being in a lucid dream clearly demonstrates the astonishing fact that the world we see is a construct of our minds. This concept, so elusive when sought in waking life, is the cornerstone of spiritual teachings. It forces us to look beyond everyday experience and ask, "If this is not real, what is?" Lucid dreaming, by so baldly baring a truth that many spend lives seeking, often triggers spiritual questioning in people who try it for far more mundane purposes. Not only does lucid dreaming lead to questioning the nature of reality, but for many it also has been a source of transcendent experience. Exalted and ecstatic states are common in lucid dreams.


The first statement of that paragraph is not reconcilable with Christian teachings.

As far as desiring to brutally kill something while in a dreamstate.....

A mental health expert might consider this to be an indication of anti social behavior or worse.

A spiritually aware person would tell you that there are consequences for those actions, even if acted on while in a dream state.




posted on Apr, 10 2008 @ 10:31 AM
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reply to post by deadline527
 




You create the rules, sir*.

Hench why you can dream of truly [snip] up [snip]t - like maiming and killing humans in the most painful and obscene fashions while the music from happy tree friends plays in the background.


Just because there are rules does not mean that those rules are bad.


[edit on 10-4-2008 by Throbber]



Mod Edit: Profanity/Circumvention Of Censors – Please Review This Link.



[edit on 10-4-2008 by elevatedone]



posted on Apr, 10 2008 @ 10:32 AM
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Anyway, what exactly do you mean when you speak of 'absolute power' - absolute power to do what?



posted on Apr, 10 2008 @ 10:36 AM
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*Surely, you must realise - having 'absolute power' in a dream, is still technically a rule.

Why, the only way to dream without rules is to simply not think about the dream, in which case the rules are not the rules you make - the rules become whatever the subconcious mind chooses.

Which is far more exciting than choosing them conciously.



posted on Apr, 10 2008 @ 10:39 AM
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Originally posted by pavlovsdog
I'm not sure how far I want to take you into this rabbit hole that you are opening. But you are posed on the brink of diving into one that I dont think you are ready to experience

I'm not trying to be condescending in any way, but from your statements I can only deduce that you don't have a broad reaching spiritual education. This is not in and of itself a bad thing, only a sign of spiritual immaturity.

Lucid dreaming is an attempt to enter a transcendent state.

To be as brief as possibly, I'd like to point you in a particular direction and encourage you to do some research on your own. Consider this quote


The experience of being in a lucid dream clearly demonstrates the astonishing fact that the world we see is a construct of our minds. This concept, so elusive when sought in waking life, is the cornerstone of spiritual teachings. It forces us to look beyond everyday experience and ask, "If this is not real, what is?" Lucid dreaming, by so baldly baring a truth that many spend lives seeking, often triggers spiritual questioning in people who try it for far more mundane purposes. Not only does lucid dreaming lead to questioning the nature of reality, but for many it also has been a source of transcendent experience. Exalted and ecstatic states are common in lucid dreams.


The first statement of that paragraph is not reconcilable with Christian teachings.

As far as desiring to brutally kill something while in a dreamstate.....

A mental health expert might consider this to be an indication of anti social behavior or worse.

A spiritually aware person would tell you that there are consequences for those actions, even if acted on while in a dream state.


I am quite social, many friends, nicest person you could probably ever meet


And I dont desire to kill in my dreams, I have no desire to cause harm to anything, or anyone one. Hell.. I dont even kill bugs, lol. But if I did do them things in a dream, technically it effects nothing. So would it still be wrong?



posted on Apr, 10 2008 @ 10:41 AM
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Originally posted by Throbber
Anyway, what exactly do you mean when you speak of 'absolute power' - absolute power to do what?


To do anything you please. You are god so to speak, you move mountains, create rivers, destroy whole cultures on the whim of a fingertip. You possess all abilities, levitation, invisibility, pyro and telekenesis, telepathy - There is no end to what you can do in a dream.

Now if you were to use these abilities IN THE DREAM to commit sinful acts, does that still equate to sin?

[edit on 10-4-2008 by deadline527]



posted on Apr, 10 2008 @ 10:43 AM
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reply to post by deadline527
 


Oh, there is an end, for those who can see it.

There are only so many things a human being or 'God' can do, before you realise that you've exhausted the possibilities.

Even if you twisted the laws of physics to the most utterly insane reality you can possibly think of, you would merely be touching the very tip of the iceberg - but it is an iceberg, and once you have delved to the murky depths and seen for yourself the truth of what is possible inside that crazy reality that can exist within your own mind, once you have explored the possibilites both mundane and fantastical, you realise that this 'thing' we exist in, this 'reality' is not truly infinite in possibility.

For it to be truly infinite, one would need something called a 'chaos' dimension.



[edit on 10-4-2008 by Throbber]



posted on Apr, 10 2008 @ 10:45 AM
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Originally posted by deadline527

Originally posted by pavlovsdog


A mental health expert might consider this to be an indication of anti social behavior or worse.



I am quite social, many friends, nicest person you could probably ever meet




Yes, most people with 'anti social behavior' are very charismatic. It's a personality disorder, not an indicator that someone lives under a rock.



posted on Apr, 10 2008 @ 10:45 AM
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Originally posted by Throbber
reply to post by deadline527
 


Oh, there is an end, for those who can see it.


What might that end be? If I get killed in my dream, I wake up, then fall back asleep and continue on if I am lucky enough to be lucid again.



posted on Apr, 10 2008 @ 10:46 AM
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Originally posted by pavlovsdog

Originally posted by deadline527

Originally posted by pavlovsdog


A mental health expert might consider this to be an indication of anti social behavior or worse.



I am quite social, many friends, nicest person you could probably ever meet




Yes, most people with 'anti social behavior' are very charismatic. It's a personality disorder, not an indicator that someone lives under a rock.


We all live under a huge rock, its called the moon.


By the way, I really do like the definition of lucid dreaming you pulled, very informative and actually quite true. I have had spiritual experiences, talked to friends who passed away, and actually have questioned reality due to the nature of it.

[edit on 10-4-2008 by deadline527]



posted on Apr, 10 2008 @ 10:49 AM
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reply to post by deadline527
 


"Even if you twisted the laws of physics to the most utterly insane reality you can possibly think of, you would merely be touching the very tip of the iceberg - but it is an iceberg, and once you have delved to the murky depths and seen for yourself the truth of what is possible inside that crazy reality that can exist within your own mind, once you have explored the possibilites both mundane and fantastical, you realise that this 'thing' we exist in, this 'reality' is not truly infinite in possibility."

I don't doubt your ability to double check my posts, i'm just lubricating the discussion.



posted on Apr, 10 2008 @ 10:53 AM
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Originally posted by Throbber
reply to post by deadline527
 


"Even if you twisted the laws of physics to the most utterly insane reality you can possibly think of, you would merely be touching the very tip of the iceberg - but it is an iceberg, and once you have delved to the murky depths and seen for yourself the truth of what is possible inside that crazy reality that can exist within your own mind, once you have explored the possibilites both mundane and fantastical, you realise that this 'thing' we exist in, this 'reality' is not truly infinite in possibility."

I don't doubt your ability to double check my posts, i'm just lubricating the discussion.


I just went back and noticed
I absolutely love theory and the laws of physics, and am ecstatic you brought up that quote. Very good point although I do believe I will not totally grasp the understanding of such a idea until I have put much more thinking into it. I love it though, and it does ring true to me.

And to put it into terms for this discussion.. if you exhaust all possibilties that you can do in a dream for negative reasons, no matter how many things you do wrong still would never effect this reality - is it still wrong?


[edit on 10-4-2008 by deadline527]



posted on Apr, 10 2008 @ 10:56 AM
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reply to post by deadline527
 


I wouldn't be surprised if someone else had thought that up, truly.

You can go ahead and dream, friend - it's good for you so long as you don't start playing with fire.

Which is what i think you're suggesting.



posted on Apr, 10 2008 @ 11:00 AM
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Originally posted by Throbber
reply to post by deadline527
 


I wouldn't be surprised if someone else had thought that up, truly.

You can go ahead and dream, friend - it's good for you so long as you don't start playing with fire.

Which is what i think you're suggesting.


No no no, I dont play with fire my friend, lol. I may light a match but never would I put it to tinder, so to speak. I do not carry my dreams over to this world, unless they are philosophical in nature and I can learn from them. The other day I had a dream where I conversed lucidly with a friend who died many years ago - I asked him questions about his death, what its like to be dead, and general questions you would ask someone on the other side. Now THAT is something I keep with me in this world. As for my crazy antics in my dreams, thats what dreams are for


I just wanted to know if what you may do in dreams, even no matter how bad, could possibly equate to a sin?


[edit on 10-4-2008 by deadline527]



posted on Apr, 10 2008 @ 11:01 AM
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Importantly to mention - The concept of 'sin' is that of 'if you commit sin, you go to hell'.

This is not my understanding of the word 'wrong', at least where dream psychology is concerned.

'wrong' is dependant on the personal experiences within the dream, and how those experiences can effect one's personal psychology both in the dream and out of it - after all, the world we perceive as 'reality' can shape our dreams, so therefore our dreams can shape how we perceive reality.

'Playing with fire' is a term that can be translated as 'Making yourself sick'.



posted on Apr, 10 2008 @ 11:03 AM
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As an example of sexual desires probably the most common; Without having known what the Christ figure went through with these temptations, we can only speculate as to whether these were personal conflicts due to a healthy labido and body and or deep seeded desires and addictions or externally as in possessions and demonic entities influences.
The Messiah or Christ figure supposedly would know exactly where these come from. He had mentioned about the sin that comes from the heart being the same as reality.
Lucid dreaming sounds the same as what's in your heart. It's up to you to develope an actual Christ conscience and supress these urges. I think many are tempted just being in church surrounded by same minded people. I wouldn't put it past any demonic type forces to influence people in church also. Islamic religion and possibly others know this and seperate them.
I think it's only natural to have a strong labido if you're a healthy person. There are horror stories of those in conflict with their own body though. (yikes!) Some medications are known to affect labido either way. Maybe there's a natural remedy? The spirit is willing but the flesh is weak might be taken either way also.

The movie: The Last Temptation of Christ was along these lines of lucid dreaming and seemed to speculate he was afterall as human in these areas as we are.

en.wikipedia.org...

I found a wiki about a movie on the lucid dream subject. I haven't seen it, but it sounds interesting.

en.wikipedia.org...

I've had a few OBE that were much more lucid and even met the one girl a few years ago. So from the time it happened originally was about ten years. So I not only had an OBE, I also time traveled.

In a way this was similar to possession except I was in someone elses body. So, in that respect, your lucid dream might be very real somewhere else.

You might want to look further than typical religious reference sources.

The book of Enoch might mention some of these things as what the watchers are capable of. Some people call some of these events remote viewing which is a new age definition, but to me basically the same though toned down alot.

Most of my recall of these similar events started around the age of three.It sounds to me that you are one of the chosen. Chosen for what exactly, I'm not really sure. It may actually run in your family or bloodline.Some might believe that they're abductees and contactees. When you lucid dream again, ASK them.



posted on Apr, 10 2008 @ 11:04 AM
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Originally posted by Throbber
Importantly to mention - The concept of 'sin' is that of 'if you commit sin, you go to hell'.

This is not my understanding of the word 'wrong', at least where dream psychology is concerned.

'wrong' is dependant on the personal experiences within the dream, and how those experiences can effect one's personal psychology both in the dream and out of it - after all, the world we perceive as 'reality' can shape our dreams, so therefore our dreams can shape how we perceive reality.

'Playing with fire' is a term that can be translated as 'Making yourself sick'.


Ohhhh, I misinterpreted and no I have no desire to become sick, lol. I just like to enjoy my dreams, and the fact remains that with absolute power in a dream, you would be hard to find someone who would not abuse that power so to speak.



posted on Apr, 10 2008 @ 11:07 AM
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Originally posted by aleon1018
In a way this was similar to possession except I was in someone elses body. So, in that respect, your lucid dream might be very real somewhere else.


THAT is the question my friend which I ask myself!

Is it possible what we do in out dreams really isnt in our dreams, and thus is REALLY affecting other things, in turn making what negative things you do turn out to be actually happening and not all in your mind? Hmm...


I have asked questions about death, life, other realities, etc.. while lucid in a dream and always the response has been in a very cryptic way. Never direct, always to think about...

[edit on 10-4-2008 by deadline527]



posted on Apr, 10 2008 @ 11:08 AM
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reply to post by deadline527
 


Hey, even i set myself a limit.



That's not to say i realised all that i am telling you now when i first started to dream though lucidity.



posted on Apr, 10 2008 @ 11:13 AM
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How do you know for sure that the reality you're currently experiencing isn't some kind of lucid dream or simulation? You don't. Therefore, sin (whatever that is) either applies across any observed reality, or across none of them at all.





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