That is one of the most obvious fakes I've ever seen. Lousy effects work. I suppose it might fool people too young to know what non-digital looks like. Too bad they could not afford the correct software so the old film effects could have at least been in the ballpark of believable.

If there was an Apollo 20, this won't help prove it. It's insane the number of hoaxes showing up lately. If I were a person who believed in Apollo 20, I'd admit this was a bad fake and move on.

Forgive me, but those effects are horrible

Originally posted by ziggystar60

Well, you seem to know that there is proof that Apollo 20 never took place and that the original Retiredafb is a hoaxer, so all I ask is that you share this proof with the rest of us simpletons.

I have not followed this subject much, but is there any proof it did exist? The burden of proof always lays on the side of the people making the claim; not the other way around.

All these obviously faked video's are setting this topic back 50 years. What a shame. When will people wake up and see those making these things are mocking this topic. They are making fun of us when they create these things.

Originally posted by Blaine91555

Originally posted by ziggystar60

Well, you seem to know that there is proof that Apollo 20 never took place and that the original Retiredafb is a hoaxer, so all I ask is that you share this proof with the rest of us simpletons.

I have not followed this subject much, but is there any proof it did exist? The burden of proof always lays on the side of the people making the claim; not the other way around.

Retiredafb provided not only videos, but additional information along with his first videos at YouTube, and a lot more information in his interview with the italian journalist and writer Luca Scantamburlo. I would say that at least Retiredafb tried to provide proof before the debunkers shut him up and started making these idiotic new videos.

Best regards, Ziggystar60.

[edit on 10-4-2008 by ziggystar60]

Sheesh people, I'm sorry but there is some serious ignorance concerning the moon being displayed here. Things 'floating around'? Come on... The gravity on the moon is 1/6th that of Earth, yeah it would be very fun to jump around but nothing is going to be floating around.

Originally posted by Blaine91555

Originally posted by ziggystar60

All these obviously faked video's are setting this topic back 50 years. What a shame. When will people wake up and see those making these things are mocking this topic. They are making fun of us when they create these things.

I'd like someone to explain how these videos can be setting this topic back " 50 years". In fact, show me one example of how it's been advanced in the last 50 years. Can it be the original Roswell witnesses who every few years, remember some small detail and a new book gets published? How about fiascos like the Serpo nonsense. Or maybe we can ask Tim Good, Stanton Friedman, Jenny Randles, etc... How many of their books simply rehash the same old stories and photos, the only difference being a new cover? Perhaps it was Billy Meier.

Ya know, I've been lurking here for many years, been interested in this subject for 30 years, read practically every book I could get my hands on.
This Apollo 20 hoo-ha is the first case I've seen that has the ring of truth to it. Maybe disclosure isn't going to be a press conference on the White House lawn. Maybe it'll be the ramblings of a senile old coot holed up somewhere trying to convert old 8-16mm films to digital format and making them look real bad?

Originally posted by KaiBosh
Sheesh people, I'm sorry but there is some serious ignorance concerning the moon being displayed here. Things 'floating around'? Come on... The gravity on the moon is 1/6th that of Earth, yeah it would be very fun to jump around but nothing is going to be floating around.

It might seem it is if it is pushed/tossed in that direction. The camera man hopping up and down is ridiculous. I'll not even mention the Q-tips. oops I just did.

Look again, closely, they're not Q-tips. I don't know what they are, but I've seen enough Q-tips to know that's not them.

C'mon guys, unless they had digital feed then and decided to overlay it with film effects, it unfortunately to me looks like a pretty exhausting hoax. If they had spent half the time it took to build the set to find time period cameras, then it would not be so obvious. For Christsakes you can count the pattern on the effects. Whoever made this was a douche, derailing serious investigation.

I have a serious question for all you debunkers, William Rutledge made his statements and produced his evidence to support his claims, the man comes across as knowledgeable and honest. I have examined his evidence in detail, i have altered it, enhanced it and compared it. The question i pose to you is, where is your evidence? If you are going to label this man a hoaxer, i demand to see your proof. Like millions of other people, i have been following the Rutledge videos, i have his complete set of video and have examined them frame by frame, there is nothing that proclaims them as "fake". Harassing a person is not debunking them. You cannot proclaim yourself as the winner and walk away, this is too important for that. To those who claim this is setting ufology back, i suggest that is merely conjecture on your part and it it too requires validation.

can't do it anymore......i was gonna sit back, and let the others finish this, since i'd said my piece, but no...can't do it anymore.....

Originally posted by debris765nju
I have a serious question for all you debunkers, William Rutledge made his statements and produced his evidence to support his claims, the man comes across as knowledgeable and honest. I have examined his evidence in detail, i have altered it, enhanced it and compared it. The question i pose to you is, where is your evidence? If you are going to label this man a hoaxer, i demand to see your proof. Like millions of other people, i have been following the Rutledge videos, i have his complete set of video and have examined them frame by frame, there is nothing that proclaims them as "fake". Harassing a person is not debunking them. You cannot proclaim yourself as the winner and walk away, this is too important for that. To those who claim this is setting ufology back, i suggest that is merely conjecture on your part and it it too requires validation.

Ok, you said you have all of the videos, and that you've studied them frame by frame....you said that this person sound like he knows what he's talking about....

My father is a HUGE fan of the apollo missions....the real ones. If i asked him to, he could write something up just as fanciful as this, and make it sound as if he knew what he was talking about...anyone with enough intelligence, and enough reading material can sell themselves as anything they want, until somoeone smarter comes along, and exposes them.

Do we have anything that shows that this man was even in the USAF? do we have any pictures of him? any audio recordings? ANYTHING that can be matched to anything in these videos?

And then there's the vids themselves....dude, do you know what CGI looks like? I said in my last post that the launch video was textbook CGI a lot of this is...CGI, matte paintings, mockups.....it's all such obvious BS.

I think that we can make anything from this video specially the debunkers but nevertheless this series of videos had opening a lot of debate and that's good for us all. Personally I understand that there's more videos to come and until I have the whole picture in front of me to analize I will give Retired AFB the benefit of doubt. I agree that just to build the models would be very expensive and even if you are a very good handyman I cannot believe that you could built this of wood, metal sheets and glue, it's too detailed and also what about those images of the lunar rover and it's platform? If it were a hoax they must be very well funded.

The part with the russian rover outside........are there any museums anywhere that have a lunar lander set on a recreation of the surface of the the moon with various other moon related craft?

It really looks like some kind of museum mock up/exhibit to me when they look out of the window.

Just an idea...

I wish this was real because I would find it both terrifying and wonderful but I think this guy ruined it by releasing progressively worse videos after a stunning debut.

Even if it turned out to be some big budget movie it would be awesome I just don't want it to turn out to be nothing at all but this stuff is increasingly cheaper looking even if the ideas remain top quality.

I have one question, I saw some saying that the EBE Monna Lisa is obviuosly a model made of clay, but what are you comparing it to? I've been interested in UFO's and aliens for a long time but I cannot say or have knowledge at least of how an extraterrestrial really looks like, moreover when science has discover that life can almost be present in any condition no matter how adverse this may be. We are not alone in the Universe is the most logical thing to state and taking that statement as a starting point we can't just dismiss anything since we lack the knowledge of other possible live forms, in other words we are all just in the dark trying to describe the rainbow.

since noone seems to be paying attention to reality...

Let's work on one problem at a time.

Let's address the simple truth that vandenberg doesn't, and never did have the kind of launch facilities necessary to launch a saturn V.