California: Police Raid Car Enthusiast Gathering, 'Generate Revenue', page 3
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ATS Members have flagged this thread 12 times


reply posted on 9-4-2008 @ 10:54 AM by sputniksteve
reply to post by The Nighthawk


I fully understand what you are saying. But do you know what I would do if I was constantly getting harassed for my window tint and exhaust and getting tickets for it? I would change my car, or pay the ticket and keep my mouth shut. My point is take responsibility, if you know its going to get you in trouble, then change it or shut up. Not trying to be rude or insult Blue personally, but come on.

And if there was nothing wrong with what these people were doing they 1) probably did not get a ticket and had to deal with an inconvenience. 2) If they got their car impounded, I would say there was no mistake made, they were driving an illegal vehicle. How can you argue with that?


reply posted on 9-4-2008 @ 11:13 AM by The Nighthawk
Originally posted by InSanE1
The reasons why they say parts are illegal is because of noise, emissions and safety issues.

On the part of safety, I really want them to explain how a car that can handle better and stop better than it's factory design is a safety issue.


That's a very good point. If the cops are going to cite someone because their modified Subaru has better handling and braking than a stock Subaru, then why not cite someone who has a bone-stock Carrera (since its braking and handling are even better still, right out off the lot)? If you want to state that cars that have been modified pose a safety hazard because of increased performance, then it's only fair to outlaw cars designed from the outset for performance. But they won't do that because the corporate officers and city councilmen who can afford to buy such cars would have a conniption.

I completely agree with people getting charged for street racing. But not for the parts installed in their cars. Also prior to saying things like 'The parts are illegal so they're still breaking the law and should pay for it'. Think about what actually makes these parts illegal and you will understand that it does not make any sense for these types of modifications to be against the law.


And a lot of the time, the parts are legal. And what of factory- or dealer-installed performance options? In my old Illinois hometown it was illegal to have fog lights on in town. But then some cars came with fog lights you couldn't turn off (part of the "daytime running light" crap). What then?

What if I buy a Solstice and have the dealer install their available handling package? Would I get ticketed for that, even though it came that way off the lot?

I wish to also point out that it's these car enthusiasts that are generally the better drivers on the roads, and these are the people who's cars are always well maintained and pose less risk on the road than people who are clueless about their vehicles.


Personally I think the training requirements to get and maintain a driver's license should be more stringent anyway. As many cars as we have on the road, making everyone a better driver couldn't hurt.


reply posted on 9-4-2008 @ 11:34 AM by BluByWho
reply to post by sputniksteve


Perhaps you took my complaining out of context. I was upset because the car in front of me ran a stop sign (we were at a toll booth entering the highway, in illinois we have an IPASS which is an automated toll system, when you go thru the coin lanes you must still come to a complete stop at the stop sign) the car in front of me drove right thru without even hesitating, a MOVING violation. Yet the cop feels the need to pull me over for equipment violations. You tell me whats more dangerous, my louder than factory exhaust or people running stop signs? See my point or shall I continue.

My exhaust is not illegal, the police twist the wording of the law to suit their arguement. I refuse to pay hundreds of dollars for an attorney and invest a ton of time into fighting a measly $75 court case that wont put points on my license. I'm not driving around on some fart can that makes my car loud as all hell to make it sound like a race car, I have a $2000 exhaust system that is designed to produce power, with a fully functional catalytic converter along with a muffler. UNDER 96 dB. A harley is hands down MUCH louder than my car.

I accept responsibilty for the tints, and could care less if they write me 100 tickets, I'll continue ridin dirty. My arguement is, is that its profiling, if I had a benz the story would be different.... case in point my father who has a tinted out pathfinder with the exact same tints as mine, never bothered, never pulled over. Profiling is ILLEGAL.

Crying like a kid? I've got somewhere you can take your holier than thou attitude, but dont really care to skirt the T & C of this site to tell you.

I accept responsibilty for my actions. I know my exhaust will get me pulled over, I know my tints will get me pulled over. Police are there for nothing more than to hit targets, fill quotas, and generate revenue. To protect and serve? I hope my neighbors feel safer knowing I paid my $150 in fines for my tinted windows and loud exhaust.

I can understand if I am out street racing, driving like a menace, or am breaking the rules of the road I will be pulled over. When I drive like a normal person, trying to commute to and from work and get harassed by the boys in blue I have a problem. I once heard an officer can only pull you over and cite you for an equipment violation only if you have committed a moving violation, who knows if its true.

If the tints worry the police I take that into account. I roll the window half down, shut down the vehicle, place the keys on the dash, and hang BOTH my hands out of the window so they can see I am not up to anything as they approach. I dont roll the window all the way down because I am not trying to hide the tints.

5% Tint? Where did I state that?

evolution with exhaust and tints advertising my presence?



[edit on 9-4-2008 by BluByWho]

[edit on 9-4-2008 by BluByWho]


reply posted on 9-4-2008 @ 11:36 AM by jasonjnelson
reply to post by sputniksteve


I think the point is, that these laws are bogus, and should be changed. And if they are not, then the police should explain why they are out doing this instead of dealing with real crime. I respect LEO's a lot, but this is a bogus reason to round up the posse.
This is , IMHO, a perfect example of why we are a democracy.

Get all 150 people, and their respective friends and family, and vote a member or two onto the local city council. You would be surprised at the changes that would occur.
P.S. I want to see cops get ticketed for moving violations in their squad cars (during regular driving) Also, if a cop gets pulled over out of uniform, He SHOULD get a ticket. How can you pretend that the lawbreakers are all that dangerous, when they won't give each other the same ticket.

I know that they are doing illegal mods, but laws are meant to be changed when no longer relevant...


reply posted on 9-4-2008 @ 12:09 PM by BluByWho
reply to post by sputniksteve



Apology noted and accepted, I now see you were trying to make a point by using me as an example, I took it as a personal attack I apologize for any misunderstandings on my behalf as well.

If the car is impounded, I see no recourse and really have no sympathy, it also depends on what the car is being impounded for in my opinion. I agree with you on that point.

Illinois law says you cant tint the front driver or passenger windows, all other windows are legal to tint, I question the purpose of the law. Heres a few reasons I tint my cars.

--Ever drive a lowered car at night with some soccer mom trying to drive her SUV through your back end? You cant see a THING because the headlights blind you in the side view mirrors.

--Ever been at a stop light trying to eat a cheeseburger when some heffer in their Corolla is trying to eat it through your window?

I tint my windows for privacy in my vehicle, people look over, see the tints and look away. I'm not up to no good and if I was I wouldn't be driving around a bright blue lancer evolution with tints and exhaust, I'd rock a taurus or something. I also do it because I like the way it looks, which I feel warrants me tinting them, the law has no point. If its for safety what about the passengers in the back seat thats tinted?

In terms of the exhaust tickets you gotta pay to play. I can understand if I am on public roads driving like mario andretti I deserve a ticket or 5, but when I am driving around minding my own business observing the rules of the road, I feel that the ticket is unwarranted. Having a louder exhaust should not be a crime, purposfully driving around creating noise with said exhaust should be treated as a crime, thats the difference I see.

[edit on 9-4-2008 by BluByWho]



reply posted on 9-4-2008 @ 12:30 PM by The Nighthawk
reply to post by BluByWho


As a fellow Illinoisan I heartily agree on the whacky tint laws. Supposedly tint is illegal because cops can't see into your vehicle to catch illegal activity. But if this were really the case, shouldn't it also be illegal to tint the back window, since that's the one they're trying to look through when they pull you over? And shouldn't louvred covers be illegal as well, since they can hinder line-of-sight? And what's to stop a group of gang-bangers from buying a third-hand limo for a little downtown camouflage? The entire passenger compartment is tinted for privacy. And the exhaust laws... Ugh. If you own a pickup truck or a motorcycle you can be as loud as you want, but if your car makes any more noise than dealer stock they come after you. Makes little sense to me.

On a tint-related note, I've heard one can get window films that can go from clear to limo black, and points in between. I know the stuff exists since it's been used on some airplanes (Hugh Hefner's old Black Bunny for example) but I can never seem to find anything about it for the commercial market. I'm waiting for the Solstice Coupe to hit showrooms, and I'd love to have "Dial-A-Tint" on it. Any ideas on that?

BTW the background in your avatar looks familiar. Where was that taken?

[edit on 4/9/2008 by The Nighthawk]


reply posted on 9-4-2008 @ 12:36 PM by BluByWho
reply to post by The Nighthawk


My background is actually a picture from when I lived in Colorado (tints and exhaust are legal there), its some no name road in the Poudre Valley near Fort Collins off of Route 14.


a quick google search gave me this site in reference to the dial-a-tint
www.smartglass.com...

[edit on 9-4-2008 by BluByWho]


reply posted on 9-4-2008 @ 12:40 PM by The Nighthawk
Originally posted by BluByWho
reply to post by The Nighthawk


My background is actually a picture from when I lived in Colorado (tints and exhaust are legal there), its some no name road in the Poudre Valley near Fort Collins off of Route 14.



Oh ok. Looked a little like my old stomping grounds near Starved Rock State Park in IL.


reply posted on 9-4-2008 @ 01:46 PM by matt the rat
reply to post by DimensionalDetective


I hear everyone screaming "freedom" and "bad cop" here so I'm assuming that the majority of posters on this topic are teen to twenty something young citizens. Great. However, has anyone here ever lost a friend or relative because they were killed by a couple of street racers who lost control?
Personally, I think that the cops should have roving tow trucks squads that find these idiots on the street and tow them to a scrap yard if they are set up for racing.
Sure, there are plenty of folks out there who restore and then do the cruise ins. That's fine. Generally they don't spend tens of thousands of dollars restoring classic cars to become a nuisance or lose it all in a reckless accident.
Then you see the "tuners". Seems like they are at every stop light, decibel testing their 5000 watt bass canons and revving up their bolt-on-accesorized motors...
Before I go too far by injecting my own personal analysis of juvenile behavior, my original point was to not be too hard on the cops. They have a job to do and there are a lot of issues to be dealt with out there.
I'm tired of everyone crying foul except when they have a "problem". Then they get mad and blame the cops, govt.' and everyone else for it.
If it's so bad here because the cops enforce laws then why do you stay?
How about trying another country? Let me know if you find one that caters you your every whim and excuses you from local laws, ordinances and anything else that creates the fabric of a SOCIETY.
Too many people, too many people..... thus we become in effect a 3rd world nation.


reply posted on 9-4-2008 @ 01:58 PM by Maxmars
Originally posted by matt the rat
reply to post by DimensionalDetective


I hear everyone screaming "freedom" and "bad cop" here so I'm assuming that the majority of posters on this topic are teen to twenty something young citizens. Great. However, has anyone here ever lost a friend or relative because they were killed by a couple of street racers who lost control?
Personally, I think that the cops should have roving tow trucks squads that find these idiots on the street and tow them to a scrap yard if they are set up for racing.
Sure, there are plenty of folks out there who restore and then do the cruise ins. That's fine. Generally they don't spend tens of thousands of dollars restoring classic cars to become a nuisance or lose it all in a reckless accident.
Then you see the "tuners". Seems like they are at every stop light, decibel testing their 5000 watt bass canons and revving up their bolt-on-accesorized motors...
Before I go too far by injecting my own personal analysis of juvenile behavior, my original point was to not be too hard on the cops. They have a job to do and there are a lot of issues to be dealt with out there.
I'm tired of everyone crying foul except when they have a "problem". Then they get mad and blame the cops, govt.' and everyone else for it.
If it's so bad here because the cops enforce laws then why do you stay?
How about trying another country? Let me know if you find one that caters you your every whim and excuses you from local laws, ordinances and anything else that creates the fabric of a SOCIETY.
Too many people, too many people..... thus we become in effect a 3rd world nation.



Wouldn't that mean having such a car automatically makes the owner guilty? Isn't there some legal 'due process' that needs to take place before 'punishment' is inflicted? After all, we don't presume all gun-owners are guilty of gun crimes, do we? Or do you?

Also, shouldn't we expect that the punishment 'fit' the crime? They were 'parked.' Shouldn't they have received 'parking tickets? (sorry - not funny)

I can't image what criminal activity this prevented. Also, shouldn't they wait for the crime to be 'committed' before creating the criminal? There just going to get kicked out of court for 'technicalities' thus wasting even MORE money on this 'bust'.


reply posted on 9-4-2008 @ 02:49 PM by sputniksteve
I think it is obvious we don't know the full story on this. We are all working under different assumptions.

Here are mine: Most likely there have been incidents in the past that raised some serious red flags for the police. As said already, they have been watching this for a while, and the parking lot is covered in burn out marks. Now probably it was a small group of jerks that were acting irresponsibly, that drew attention to the crowd as a whole. Obviously not everyone there was doing anything illegal, or was ticketed or had their car impounded. But maybe someone caused a huge accident that was reported to be part of this group. Maybe 2 weeks prior someone died in a car accident caused by some racers. Maybe Old people were scared and over reacted and complained to the law.

Who knows, but I highly doubt this was just unprovoked and purely for the sake of raising funds. Believe it or not the cops DO have better things to do then, as so many point out. I am sure they would rather be catching serious offenders then this, but that does not mean they ignore it. And its not like people stand around with signs that say "I am a murderer/thief/rapist" and make it easy for the cops to bust them. Quit saying they should be catching real criminals, it sounds stupid. Criminals are trying NOT to get caught, so easier said then done right?

I have my windows blacked out and drive a crotch rocket. I don't put myself or others in danger by my actions. However when I am speeding, I know I can get caught, and I know I could lose my license because of it. Just because an article makes them out to be fun loving innocent enthusiasts does not mean that's what they are 100%. My windows are tinted because I like the look and I like to blaze, so I don't like people staring at me. But I know they are illegal, and I could get ticketed. Just like they knew they were vulnerable when/if they got ticketed. So give them a little more credit.

By the way, I believe the reason for the no tint/little tint on the front windows is for the officers safety. When they approach your car they want you to be visible to them, so they know you are not sitting there with a gun pointed at them. I can definitely understand and sympathise with this. After all, this was put into effect for this exact reason.

And blu, we practice the same technique when we get pulled over Always best to make them comfortable. I find it much easier to deal and possibly get out of a ticket when i turn the car off, dome light on, keys on the dash, windows down and my hands visible. You should all try it actually.

[edit on 4/9/2008 by sputniksteve]


reply posted on 9-4-2008 @ 03:10 PM by BluByWho
reply to post by matt the rat


My car is set up for racing, maybe they should tow it and scrap it? Then once they do that they can start making the car payments on it too, then once they own it and have the title than can return it to stock or as they see fit. Until then I own it and will modify it to my tastes.

I don't condone street racing, not in any way shape or form. Take it to the track and only the track. But because I choose to modify my car to race it at the track I am now a criminal? Because it has a modified exhaust, and a 5 million jigawatt system? I'm sorry I can only afford one car and have to drive my STREET car to work every day. When I want to reap the benefits of the vehicle and all its handling glory I TAKE IT TO THE TRACK.

A modified car does not = street racer
A gun owner does not = murderer

Street racing goes something like this. 2 cars start at point a and the first one to make it to point b wins. They race thru traffic and all the like. If your referencing people meeting up in desolate areas to drag race that is not street racing. Illegal,yes, but not true street racing. If a spectator gets killed at a drag race like I mentioned they put themselves is harms way so I have no sympathy for them, sorry. If its a person killed by a street racer who is innocent and has nothing to do with it, the driver deserves life behind bars. Period.

So now owning a modified car is a crime and should be treated as such?

I wouldnt call the police when I had a problem, unforunately insurance companies require police reports. If its a problem that I could handle on my own, I would gladly do it, but then I'd become the criminal.

Our justice system is too weak IMO, eye for an eye. You kill someone you get killed end of story. You injure someone and give them a disabaility, you get the disability too. Maybe then people would be more careful, more respectful of their fellow citizens.

I wouldn't make generaliztions about old folks and their resto projects. I have seen just as many of them wreck their cars too. You think some kid who pours his blood, sweat, tears, and hard earned money into his car wants to wreck it? Sounds to me like you approve of what your generation is doing with old cars, but what my generation is doing with new cars is unacceptable.

Times have changed buddy.... times have changed.



[edit on 9-4-2008 by BluByWho]


reply posted on 9-4-2008 @ 03:19 PM by b4christ15
Originally posted by BluByWho
reply to post by matt the rat


My car is set up for racing, maybe they should tow it and scrap it? Then once they do that they can start making the car payments on it too, then once they own it and have the title than can return it to stock or as they see fit. Until then I own it and will modify it to my tastes.

I don't condone street racing, not in any way shape or form. Take it to the track and only the track. But because I choose to modify my car to race it at the track I am now a criminal? Because it has a modified exhaust, and a 5 million jigawatt system? I'm sorry I can only afford one car and have to drive my STREET car to work every day. When I want to reap the benefits of the vehicle and all its handling glory I TAKE IT TO THE TRACK.

A modified car does not = street racer
A gun owner does not = murderer

Street racing goes something like this. 2 cars start at point a and the first one to make it to point b wins. They race thru traffic and all the like. If your referencing people meeting up in desolate areas to drag race that is not street racing. Illegal,yes, but not true street racing. If a spectator gets killed at a drag race like I mentioned they put themselves is harms way so I have no sympathy for them, sorry. If its a person killed by a street racer who is innocent and has nothing to do with it, the driver deserves life behind bars. Period.

So now owning a modified car is a crime and should be treated as such?

I wouldnt call the police when I had a problem, unforunately insurance companies require police reports. If its a problem that I could handle on my own, I would gladly do it, but then I'd become the criminal.

Our justice system is too weak IMO, eye for an eye. You kill someone you get killed end of story. You injure someone and give them a disabaility, you get the disability too. Maybe then peole would be more careful, more respectful of their fellow citizens.

I wouldn't make generaliztions about old folks and their resto projects. I have seen just as many of them wreck their cars too. You think some kid whop pours his blood, sweat, tears, and hard earned money into his car wants to wreck it? Sounds to me like you approve of what your generation is doing with old cars, but what my generation is doing with new cars is unacceptable.

Times have changed buddy.... times have changed.



Couldn't have said it better Blubywho. Stereotyping someone a 'street racer' just because they modified their car and enjoy the hobby is completely wrong and immoral. Also, this isn't just some punk teenagers who have seen the fast and the furious too many times. I've seen just as many older adults guilty of dangerous driving as younger kids. Is it more prevelant with a younger person at the wheel? Absolutely, but that doesn't give the right for police officers to single out a kid driving a modified "tuner" car. I have no problem with the illegal modifications tickets. It's Cali and those rules are very strict out there. I'm just upset at the cop lumping in all car enthusiasts as street racers.

BTW, I love the Evo Blubywho. Sounds like you have a very clean car And this is coming from an Srt-4 owner
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