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California: Police Raid Car Enthusiast Gathering, 'Generate Revenue'

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posted on Apr, 9 2008 @ 01:41 AM
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I guess we should just wait until some drunken fool racing runs over somebodys grandmother or slams into a family in a van driving to visit a relative.

Stop acting like everyone there was an innocent person. An illegal modification to your car, even if it just recreational hobby use, is still breaking the law. And if an immigrant is arrested for jumping a fence, then these "hobbyists" should be fined for also breaking the law.

Because breaking the law is breaking the law, whether your selling drugs, jumping a fence, or illegally modifying your vehicle that will be driven on public roads.




posted on Apr, 9 2008 @ 02:07 AM
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reply to post by InSanE1
 


over here [ the UK ] we transport our race spec vehicles to venues on the back of trailers

here there are only a hand full of ` road spec ` racing tournaments - most being single model series - sponsored by the manufacturer that allow competitors to drive to the venue

i have no sympathy for people who isnist on modifying vehicles with aftermarket equepment NOT designed or aproved for road use - then going out on the road anyway

if you want to race a road legal car - join an unmodified tounament - its a much greater test of your driving skils

otherwise buy a bloody trialer like the rest of us do



posted on Apr, 9 2008 @ 02:35 AM
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Originally posted by DimensionalDetective

Originally posted by Kruel
Yeah... way to protect us from the bad guys.

This just proves what the police force really is... a business.

Bingo...Another form of government generating income...The LE have their raids, ticketing and fines, the higher levels have their wars and lobbying for dirty crap to let slide. It's a big scam imposed upon the little people.

As a law enforcement officer I can say that we are pushed to bring the numbers up, the more numbers we have the bigger the budget next year, the bigger the budget next year, the more equipment we get...we have equipment that is severely out of date and DHS grants give us equipment we will most likely never use, so yes, in a sense we are becoming like a business.



posted on Apr, 9 2008 @ 03:22 AM
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just curious did Donut King go bust?

sheesh..how about getting real criminals..and use tax payers money for its intended purpose.



posted on Apr, 9 2008 @ 03:30 AM
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Just so you know police work(for me) is 40% paperwork, 20% domestics, 10% patrol, 10% court time, 10% unfounded calls, 5% booking, 5% tickets...tickets are very low on the priority list(for our department anyway)



posted on Apr, 9 2008 @ 08:24 AM
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Originally posted by DYepes
Because breaking the law is breaking the law, whether your selling drugs, jumping a fence, or illegally modifying your vehicle that will be driven on public roads.


In Minnesota it's illegal to sleep naked.
In Indiana it's illegal to take baths between the months of October and March.
In Alabama it's illegal to wear a fake moustache that causes laughter in church.

Your point is?


1. Some laws are stupid/pointless/shouldn't exist.
2. These guys weren't even racing!
3. Cops should be catching the real criminals (you know, murderers, theives, rapists) but instead they pick off a few harmless people in a parking lot showing off their cars. Saying that their priorities are misplaced is a vast understatement.

But yeah! Save us from the evil car modifiers! They should all go to jail for what they *might* have done with those powerful engines.

Tell ya what though, I'd rather have them on the road than someone in their 80s.



posted on Apr, 9 2008 @ 08:32 AM
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I get pulled over for my exhaust all the time.

Whats illegal about it? Its under 96 dB. I just passed emissions with it. Our state law says you cannot equip a vehicle with exhaust for the purpose of making more noise. My vehicle is equipped with exhaust to make more power, 30whp verified on a dynamometer. Some extra noise is a byproduct.

As a matter of fact just the other day I got pulled over for window tints and exhaust. Nevermind the vehicle in front of me who just ran the stop sign, lets profile the "race car" and pull him over for equipment violations when the vehicle in front of him just committed a MOVING violation.

Oh well, equipment violations don't count as points on the license, keep writing me tint and exhaust tickets, I'll keep paying them and keep my tints and exhaust on thank you very much.

I bet if I was rolling in a Benz my window tints wouldnt be a problem...

Sure, maybe I appear as if my car is a "street racer". I keep it on the track. We have a drag strip 40 min from my house (Route 66 Raceway) and we also have a road track the same distance Autobahn Country Club. My car is modified to be raced at the TRACK, so help me god I cant afford 2 cars and have to daily drive my "race car". (I use that term loosely I have an intake, exhaust, fuel pump, computer tuning, and suspension)

It's called profiling and all of the police departments are guilty of it. I'm 26 now and have been dealing with this crap since I was 17. I am a car enthusiast, I have been for almost 10 years. Sure I was more careless back in the day but who wasnt at 17 with a fast car.

Why do I like a faster car than I bought, because I am an enthusiast, it is my hobby. Why do people buy houses and then make changes? To make them different from the other houses and to suit their personality. It's my right is it not?

I also drive a street car because I feel it is safer. I can stop better than all the cars on the road, my car manuevers better than all of the cars on the road, and I can accelerate out of danger.

[edit on 9-4-2008 by BluByWho]

[edit on 9-4-2008 by BluByWho]



posted on Apr, 9 2008 @ 08:36 AM
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Can this really be about the money? How much income could they possibly generate?

If these vehicles are not 'road-legal' then the drivers new what they were risking by taking them out on the road. But even so...,

Aren't there rapists, drug dealers, thieves, racketeers (aside from insurance companies and the IRS) to take down? How about 'terrorists' and 'suspicious persons', or the so-aptly named 'illegal aliens' that roam our communities ((they are 'illegal' right?, 'illegal' means 'breaking the law' right? breaking the law means 'subject to police authority' right?) Aw never mind..., hang those car enthusiasts! w00T.



posted on Apr, 9 2008 @ 08:37 AM
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Since violence would serve no purpose other than to make the car owners even more harrassed by the thug pig's, the only real recourse is to SUE the scumbag cop's and their departments in Federal court for civil rights violations. Dragging the cop's into court is the only way to get this crap stopped. Intent to race? What a scam...sickening...totally.

The filthy pig's need to stop this garbage and get out and stop some real crimes...oh, I forgot, that might be dangerous and actually take some real work..sorry, what was I thinking? This fascist nonsense needs to be attacked and dealt with legally, sue all the cop's there individually and sue em hard and stay with it; even if the suit is tossed later the cop's will have been bothered and put on the spot and hopefully frightened into actually obeying the laws. Searches without warrants? That alone is enough to sue for...sick society we live in. Damed cops..



posted on Apr, 9 2008 @ 08:38 AM
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Sounds like a revenue generating scheme to me. I alwasy had this idea that if I ever got filty rich I would do whatever possible to sue the cities for using tickets as a source of revenue rather than a means to enforce crime. What do you think it would take to prove that cities are using speed traps and such as a mean of generating revenue? Then introduce legislature to make it illegal for cities to use this as a source of revenue.

THoughts?



posted on Apr, 9 2008 @ 09:18 AM
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reply to post by DYepes
 



Hmmm, I didn't see anything about any of these people being 'drunken' as you referred to...Nor was it 'proven' that they wee actually even street racers...

Although it may be illegal to modify ones vehicle, as stated by others here, there's a LOT more productive way to use tax-payer dollars, like going after VIOLENT offenders and gangs (which are prevelant in the area this sting took place). Using a hundred cops to harrass a bunch of peaceful HOBBYISTS is beyond ridiculous, and a giant waste of LE and tax dollars.



posted on Apr, 9 2008 @ 09:25 AM
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Well, the obvious way to protect oneself from this kind of crap is to make sure everything on your car is street legal. This can be difficult: Most states use murky language intended to confuse the average person, making it hard to determine what you can and can't have on your car. But, my feeling is, if you're gonna blow two grand on an induction system, you'd better take that extra step in case you get pulled over and the cop wants to look under your hood. He might still try and write you a ticket, but if he does, fight it. He still has to prove you did something illegal, and if your mods aren't, he hasn't a leg to stand on. BluByWho: If you get ticketed for your exhaust, make sure you have the papers from the emissions test and also get that thing's noise output officially noted. Have an expert witness ready to testify in your behalf that it's for power and not sound. It may cost you to fight (though I'm guessing if you have the money for a performance car you can afford a lawyer) but they don't really want to go to court either. Back in my old home county, half the time if you fought a ticket the cop who issued it didn't even bother to show up to court. They only really made an effort for DUI, assault, and drug cases. Whether that's laziness or legitimate lack of time, I don't care. But forcing the police to waste time and money in court to prove you guilty (as it should be) is one of the best ways to fight this insanity. Throwing a lawsuit at them upon your acquittal helps too. Make an effort to know the laws and how they apply to your hobby.

Another thing--I know many car enthusiasts wouldn't like this idea, but I've always been a fan of "sleepers". Not much show, but all go. Calling less attention to yourself helps, especially when you already know they're profiling. And, plastering the logos of racing equipment suppliers all over your car (not sure why anyone would want to anyway, I like clean, shiny, polished finishes, personally) probably won't help either. Then again, this stuff doesn't happen much in Chicago--probably because cops here are too busy getting drunk and beating the holy bejeezus out of 90-pound female bartenders.



posted on Apr, 9 2008 @ 09:30 AM
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In the early 90's i went to this very gathering in California with my boss. She owned a Lamberghini and was really into it. It was nice and a pleasant experience, rather boring for those of us who dont own such vehicles! The overall age was 35-80 and people were well to do, of course! There was nothing there that would illicit the summoning of police at all.

Yawwwwn.

They will not miss an opportunity to drill into us that the MOLICE (military police) is watching you and can do as they please- like ruin your day and so forth.


I say they should go back to Starbucks or Dunkn Dounuts and read the paper.



posted on Apr, 9 2008 @ 09:40 AM
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Originally posted by dgtempe
In the early 90's i went to this very gathering in California with my boss. She owned a Lamberghini and was really into it. It was nice and a pleasant experience, rather boring for those of us who dont own such vehicles! The overall age was 35-80 and people were well to do, of course! There was nothing there that would illicit the summoning of police at all.

Yawwwwn.

They will not miss an opportunity to drill into us that the MOLICE (military police) is watching you and can do as they please- like ruin your day and so forth.


I say they should go back to Starbucks or Dunkn Dounuts and read the paper.


Seriously! These things are usually older, more mature enthusiasts, and those younger folks who do things right and take it to the track. What next, they gonna raid the Barrett-Jackson auction and confiscate everything there not 50-state legal? And then put them up on a state-run auction to raise cash? And then confiscate them again from the new owners, because they're still not "legal"? (I'm guessing this is one way they raise "revenue" after a raid like this). This can get way out of hand, really fast. They could essentially keep enthusiasts in a non-stop cycle of ticketing, confiscation, payment of outrageous fines to get the car back, and then ticket and confiscate again right away the second that car makes it back to the owner's hands. Maybe car hobbyists need to start a lobbying firm.



posted on Apr, 9 2008 @ 10:03 AM
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reply to post by The Nighthawk
 


Unfortunatly it's a whole lot easier to just pay the $75 ticket than it would be to have the shop who sells my exhaust send a rep. to court, hire an attorney, and have my car officially tested. I can afford the attorney, but why waste the extra money, I doubt the PD will pay for it, and if they do at the end of the day will it really matter much, the next cop in the next jursidiction will just write another ticket, then its the same song and dance all over again. I have the money, i dont have the time, I have more important things to worry about than a measly $75. Like my family, friends, and dogs. I dont want to spend my free time fighting some ridiculous exhaust ticket, aside from my full time job I am also trying to start a business.

On a side note induction systems are relativly cheap ($300 or less) mine in particular was only $75. I know Cali is the worst state to own a modded car in, so this article doesnt surprise me in the least.

My car has not a single sticker on it and aside from being lowered and tinted appears factory stock.



posted on Apr, 9 2008 @ 10:20 AM
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reply to post by BluByWho
 


I once read that it costs in the vicinity of $10,000 to dispatch a cruiser with two officers to a home alarm situation. This was the bases of an effort to 'ding' alarm services for all the 'false' alarms. Assuming this was a gross exaggeration (which it probably was) and it costs only a third of that (much more realistic)

Nine jurisdictions send around 50 vehicles, considering coordination and administrative oversight, fuel and (gasp) overtime. California taxpayers dumped some $100,00 into this bust. - For what? $75 summonses all-around? What a waste!



posted on Apr, 9 2008 @ 10:25 AM
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Just to play some devils advocate here.

If murderers, rapists, and gang bangers were stupid enough to congregate in a shopping center parking lot, I am sure they would all get arrested quicker then you can say Police state.

I am sure there was reasons for doing this that we don't know about. Lets not forget that people irresponsibly driving way too fast on city streets does have the consequence of people losing their lives sometimes. So quite being so naive and thinking these were nothing but law abiding citizens just hanging out. Get real people.

You know damn well that that extra 30hp exhaust and 5% tint is going to get you in trouble. Quite acting like a kid when you get pulled over and ticketed for it. You are smarter then that.

Take responsibility people. I am not saying you shouldn't do this stuff, but when the hammer comes down, quite crying. I do lots of illegal stuff, and I know the consequences if I get caught. I am not going to start suing people and crying on forums because of it.



posted on Apr, 9 2008 @ 10:35 AM
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Originally posted by BluByWho
Unfortunatly it's a whole lot easier to just pay the $75 ticket than it would be to have the shop who sells my exhaust send a rep. to court, hire an attorney, and have my car officially tested. I can afford the attorney, but why waste the extra money, I doubt the PD will pay for it, and if they do at the end of the day will it really matter much, the next cop in the next jursidiction will just write another ticket, then its the same song and dance all over again. I have the money, i dont have the time, I have more important things to worry about than a measly $75. Like my family, friends, and dogs. I dont want to spend my free time fighting some ridiculous exhaust ticket, aside from my full time job I am also trying to start a business.

On a side note induction systems are relativly cheap ($300 or less) mine in particular was only $75. I know Cali is the worst state to own a modded car in, so this article doesnt surprise me in the least.

My car has not a single sticker on it and aside from being lowered and tinted appears factory stock.


Believe me, I understand. Chicago's big deal is parking tickets and sticker/registration violations. I actually got a ticket on New Year's Day 2007 while parked in front of my fiancee's apartment for my registration having expired on Dec. 31st. Hard to believe they'd have Dept. of Revenue (Yes, they actually call it that here; they don't even bother hiding it) employees running around in zero-degree weather on a national holiday, but they do it. I also got a ticket for parking my brother's pickup I was borrowing while moving into the apartment. They ticketed it because apparently in Chicago you need a special truck sticker to park on a residential street, regardless of whether or not that truck is registered to the city (it wasn't). So yeah, I know what you mean about getting crazy tickets that are small enough to pay, and not big enough to make a fuss over. I just think more people should fight unfair tickets and make it harder for the pigs to pull this crap, and maybe if it costs them money and time they'll stop doing it.

My sticker comments go out to the kids who like to pretend they're real, sponsored professional racers with logos plastered all over their cars.

The price of induction systems has dropped considerably, apparently. I remember when I was into all this (but too poor to do very much with it) they were really flippin' expensive. What's the quality like on the $300 systems? Back then $300 usually meant it would break in two weeks...



posted on Apr, 9 2008 @ 10:43 AM
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Originally posted by sputniksteve
Just to play some devils advocate here.

If murderers, rapists, and gang bangers were stupid enough to congregate in a shopping center parking lot, I am sure they would all get arrested quicker then you can say Police state.

I am sure there was reasons for doing this that we don't know about. Lets not forget that people irresponsibly driving way too fast on city streets does have the consequence of people losing their lives sometimes. So quite being so naive and thinking these were nothing but law abiding citizens just hanging out. Get real people.

You know damn well that that extra 30hp exhaust and 5% tint is going to get you in trouble. Quite acting like a kid when you get pulled over and ticketed for it. You are smarter then that.

Take responsibility people. I am not saying you shouldn't do this stuff, but when the hammer comes down, quite crying. I do lots of illegal stuff, and I know the consequences if I get caught. I am not going to start suing people and crying on forums because of it.


But that's part of the point, not all of it is illegal. As BluByWho pointed out, his exhaust is 100% within the boundaries of the law, but the cops don't care. They see it, they write a ticket, he has a choice to fight it or pay if it's not big enough to fight. He hasn't actually done anything wrong but they still ding him for it. That happens a lot in regards to traffic violations. Like I said, in Chicago it's parking--the regs are so hard to understand even my lawyer friends can't figure it out.



posted on Apr, 9 2008 @ 10:44 AM
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reply to post by ignorant_ape
 



Not all of us have the financial means to own a daily driver and a dedicated track car that we take to the track. So people in my situation use the same car for both purposes. The modifications that are installed are not full on track parts, most are aftermarket perfromance parts designed for both track and city driving.

The reasons why they say parts are illegal is because of noise, emissions and safety issues. My vehicle complied with noise regulations (I had a bypass installed between my headers and cat that I could open up at the track) and I passed emissions all the time. On the part of safety, I really want them to explain how a car that can handle better and stop better than it's factory design is a safety issue.

I completely agree with people getting charged for street racing. But not for the parts installed in their cars. Also prior to saying things like 'The parts are illegal so they're still breaking the law and should pay for it'. Think about what actually makes these parts illegal and you will understand that it does not make any sense for these types of modifications to be against the law.

I wish to also point out that it's these car enthusiasts that are generally the better drivers on the roads, and these are the people who's cars are always well maintained and pose less risk on the road than people who are clueless about their vehicles.



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