UK sword ban becomes law, page 5


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ATS Members have flagged this thread 3 times


reply posted on 16-4-2008 @ 05:11 AM by budski
reply to post by Spreadthetruth



By all means, list all the things that have been banned that are necessary to everyday living in the UK.

New labour and the nanny state with all that PC are just fads that will pass, and I also would like to refer to your use of new labour, and again say that as a member of the electorate you have the choice of voting them out.



reply posted on 16-4-2008 @ 09:01 AM by 44soulslayer
Originally posted by budski
reply to
post by 44soulslayer



And there was me thinking you were above that.
Histrionics are never very pretty.

We've also discussed your so-called "right" to own lethal weapons - you've never had that right, so I don't know why you keep banging on about them.

The electoral process is there for a reason - we may not always like it, but that's what we've got, and until you can find a way to change the law either within the current framework or by becoming an MP and trying to get it changed yourself, that's what you're stuck with.

Meanwhile, I still await answers to my questions.

And I'll add another - why do you think it's necessary to own a gun or sword to protect yourself?
Isn't your reaction a little out of proportion to the levelof violent crime in this country?
Or do you see yourself as a charles bronson style vigilante, killing all them bad guys?



In response to the socratic questions:

1. I know I need a gun to protect myself from violent crime. Ive been mugged twice, once with a knife. I value my life above the contents of my wallet, but clearly my mugger doesnt.

2. No its not out of proportion. As a victim of crime, I demand the right to do the job that the police of this country are capable of : Defending myself.

3. I wouldnt kill a criminal trying to mug me... unless it turns violent.

Yes, I dont CURRENTLY have a right to defend myself with a weapon, or to own one. But what we are debating here is whether or not I should have that right.

Perhaps my previous post was a bit OTT, but you have used histrionics as a method for dodging my bluntly put question:

1. Why do you not want me to be armed, if I am a law abiding citizen

2. Why do you fear weapons harming you... you talked about exaggeration of crime statistics on my behalf- you dont think that 6 murders in 5 years resulting in a blanket samurai sword ban is overkill?

3. If a man attacks you, would you rather be unarmed and frantically pressing 999 on your phone or would you rather protect yourself from crime?

4. Even if you have no need for a weapon, what gives you the right to dictate what others can and cant own? Please keep in mind that Im asking this hypothetically- responding by saying "its the law, follow it or change it by democracy" isnt enough. What gives any man a right to impose his will upon others, if the others are not harming the man?



reply posted on 16-4-2008 @ 09:06 AM by 44soulslayer
reply to post by budski



Here come the histrionics again...

What if government deems it unecessary for you to own a textbook about economics, or chemistry because you dont study those subjects?

What if the government deems it unecessary for you to eat two apples a day instead of one because you dont need it?

What if they ban mobile phones because you can use phone booths, and thus dont need mobiles?

Need is a pathetic criterion to base laws on. If we used this criteria, we would all be left in square homes with no interior furnishing, in sky rise buildings, with caloric rationed food to keep us alive and all else would be banned because we dont need anything apart from food and shelter, do we?



[edit on 16-4-2008 by 44soulslayer]


reply posted on 16-4-2008 @ 11:19 AM by budski
reply to post by 44soulslayer



The perceived need for a weapon is different from other needs - phones, textbooks, food etc are not made for the specific purpose of harming another human.

I have been mugged at knifepoint, and others attempted to mug me another time - that one didn't work, although I couldn't type properly for a few weeks afterwards.

Weapons don't scare me (I was in the TA for a few years) I just don't see the need for them in our society.

This isn't to say that I am making any judgement of others - I just don't see why in the UK someone would need a samurai sword, a gun (especially a concealed gun) or a hunting knife, I think that would be inviting a LOT of violence as things would just escalate into a kind of arms race.

Compared to a major proportion of the globe, ours is not a violent country, and I see no need for gun toting vigilantes to be roaming the streets.


reply posted on 16-4-2008 @ 11:36 AM by Silcone Synapse
reply to post by budski



Hey Budski
I used to own a curved pirate style sword when I was a kid-I actually bought it in a steptoes yard type place,maybe 9-10 years old,mother present(to explain I was a pirate fanatic,not a crazy kid{!!})

It was a massively respected item on my wall for a couple of years,decided to sell it
(due to parental pressure-they got worried over the media blitz on "rambo" knives back in the 80's).
Anyway my point was,I owned a sword responsibly as an item of interest and would never have raised it at another human.
I just wish that our knee jerk government would have thought out this ban more carefully.
This will do a big fat Zero when it comes to UK knife crime.
Bigger sentences for knife wielding maniacs I would certainly approve of.
Targeting people who want the odd pirate/samurai sword to hang on the wall just does not cut the mustard for me I'm afraid.

How is that going to stop the average mugging thug from attacking the old lady down the street?
And thats the sort of sheet that we need to be putting an end to in our society IMHO.

Skirt the issue or what,Government?


reply posted on 16-4-2008 @ 11:46 AM by budski
reply to post by Silcone Synapse



Whilst I agree with your point about the government, I also have to say that I have never seen a report of anyone being mugged by someone with a samurai sword.

I also agree that the government should be doing more to tackle the thugs who mug people just because they want money without working for it, and also doing more to tackle knife crime.

BUT, I just can't see the big deal here - it appears to me that some people want a law allowing them to own something they will probably never own, or even want to own - and in this, I'll refer you back to my kid in a sweet shop analogy.

Another factor here is that people who want to own lots of weapons for no particular reason always make me a little edgy - there's just something a little weird about it...


reply posted on 16-4-2008 @ 01:23 PM by Silcone Synapse
reply to post by budski



Ok Budski,
You have a valid argument so I will look forward to the viewing the debate friend.
I do hope you guys will discuss the difference between a maniac fool who wishes to harm others with a sword ,and those who are genuine collectors or blacksmiths who make swords.

(my main issue with this is the Blacksmith thing-my friends who are budding or Pro blacksmiths are no longer allowed to make certain shaped blades.)

I feel that this is a real shame,and I would love it if you addressed this issue in the debate.
Thanks Budski.



reply posted on 19-5-2008 @ 02:35 AM by guppy
reply to post by Wreckagemaster



Law abiding gun owners feel the same about firearms. In most societies, its the 5% who screw things up for the rest. Plus, you have misinformed, ignorant politicians who make the laws based on supposedly unbiased media source.

Welcome to population control.
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