UK sword ban becomes law

Originally posted by Cyberbian

Once apon a time in place called the British Empire, Knights wandered the land defending the innocent. Today they would be imprisoned for sitting at home polishing their weapons.

that really is too funny.

Knights wandered the land killing and stealing from those SERFS who wouldn't do as they were told, in between mounting expeditions of "conquest" that were little more than than an excuse to rape and pillage.

Also, the british empire came into being a few hundred years later.

But thanks for that - I needed a good laugh after reading some of the views on this thread

And tell me this, since the last time we heard all this rubbish, when handguns were banned, how many other things have been banned?

It appears your slippery slope is a mere figment of your seemingly over active imagination.

Lots of things have been banned since then. Fortunately for you, these are things that aren't absolutely nessarsary to own in order to live in the 21st century.

Just look at what New Labour has pushed on us over the last 10 years. Do you think we have the same liberties we did 10 to 20 years ago?

Are we safer? Definately not.





[edit on 15-4-2008 by Spreadthetruth]

reply to post by Spreadthetruth


By all means, list all the things that have been banned that are necessary to everyday living in the UK.

New labour and the nanny state with all that PC are just fads that will pass, and I also would like to refer to your use of new labour, and again say that as a member of the electorate you have the choice of voting them out.

Originally posted by budski
reply to post by 44soulslayer

 

And there was me thinking you were above that.
Histrionics are never very pretty.

We've also discussed your so-called "right" to own lethal weapons - you've never had that right, so I don't know why you keep banging on about them.

The electoral process is there for a reason - we may not always like it, but that's what we've got, and until you can find a way to change the law either within the current framework or by becoming an MP and trying to get it changed yourself, that's what you're stuck with.

Meanwhile, I still await answers to my questions.

And I'll add another - why do you think it's necessary to own a gun or sword to protect yourself?
Isn't your reaction a little out of proportion to the levelof violent crime in this country?
Or do you see yourself as a charles bronson style vigilante, killing all them bad guys?

In response to the socratic questions:

1. I know I need a gun to protect myself from violent crime. Ive been mugged twice, once with a knife. I value my life above the contents of my wallet, but clearly my mugger doesnt.

2. No its not out of proportion. As a victim of crime, I demand the right to do the job that the police of this country are capable of : Defending myself.

3. I wouldnt kill a criminal trying to mug me... unless it turns violent.

Yes, I dont CURRENTLY have a right to defend myself with a weapon, or to own one. But what we are debating here is whether or not I should have that right.

Perhaps my previous post was a bit OTT, but you have used histrionics as a method for dodging my bluntly put question:

1. Why do you not want me to be armed, if I am a law abiding citizen

2. Why do you fear weapons harming you... you talked about exaggeration of crime statistics on my behalf- you dont think that 6 murders in 5 years resulting in a blanket samurai sword ban is overkill?

3. If a man attacks you, would you rather be unarmed and frantically pressing 999 on your phone or would you rather protect yourself from crime?

4. Even if you have no need for a weapon, what gives you the right to dictate what others can and cant own? Please keep in mind that Im asking this hypothetically- responding by saying "its the law, follow it or change it by democracy" isnt enough. What gives any man a right to impose his will upon others, if the others are not harming the man?

reply to post by budski


Here come the histrionics again...

What if government deems it unecessary for you to own a textbook about economics, or chemistry because you dont study those subjects?

What if the government deems it unecessary for you to eat two apples a day instead of one because you dont need it?

What if they ban mobile phones because you can use phone booths, and thus dont need mobiles?

Need is a pathetic criterion to base laws on. If we used this criteria, we would all be left in square homes with no interior furnishing, in sky rise buildings, with caloric rationed food to keep us alive and all else would be banned because we dont need anything apart from food and shelter, do we?



[edit on 16-4-2008 by 44soulslayer]

reply to post by 44soulslayer


The perceived need for a weapon is different from other needs - phones, textbooks, food etc are not made for the specific purpose of harming another human.

I have been mugged at knifepoint, and others attempted to mug me another time - that one didn't work, although I couldn't type properly for a few weeks afterwards.

Weapons don't scare me (I was in the TA for a few years) I just don't see the need for them in our society.

This isn't to say that I am making any judgement of others - I just don't see why in the UK someone would need a samurai sword, a gun (especially a concealed gun) or a hunting knife, I think that would be inviting a LOT of violence as things would just escalate into a kind of arms race.

Compared to a major proportion of the globe, ours is not a violent country, and I see no need for gun toting vigilantes to be roaming the streets.

reply to post by budski


Hey Budski
I used to own a curved pirate style sword when I was a kid-I actually bought it in a steptoes yard type place,maybe 9-10 years old,mother present(to explain I was a pirate fanatic,not a crazy kid[!!])

It was a massively respected item on my wall for a couple of years,decided to sell it
(due to parental pressure-they got worried over the media blitz on "rambo" knives back in the 80's).
Anyway my point was,I owned a sword responsibly as an item of interest and would never have raised it at another human.
I just wish that our knee jerk government would have thought out this ban more carefully.
This will do a big fat Zero when it comes to UK knife crime.
Bigger sentences for knife wielding maniacs I would certainly approve of.
Targeting people who want the odd pirate/samurai sword to hang on the wall just does not cut the mustard for me I'm afraid.

How is that going to stop the average mugging thug from attacking the old lady down the street?
And thats the sort of sheet that we need to be putting an end to in our society IMHO.

Skirt the issue or what,Government?

reply to post by Silcone Synapse


Whilst I agree with your point about the government, I also have to say that I have never seen a report of anyone being mugged by someone with a samurai sword.

I also agree that the government should be doing more to tackle the thugs who mug people just because they want money without working for it, and also doing more to tackle knife crime.

BUT, I just can't see the big deal here - it appears to me that some people want a law allowing them to own something they will probably never own, or even want to own - and in this, I'll refer you back to my kid in a sweet shop analogy.

Another factor here is that people who want to own lots of weapons for no particular reason always make me a little edgy - there's just something a little weird about it...

I hear you mate,
Funny thing is when I first heard about this approaching ban my first thought was,I should buy a sword-I will not be able to after the ban!

After thinking a while longer I thought,no thats just silly.
I am an adult who can do without a sword displayed on the wall.

But I bet my friend,that if I was a now a teenager with a pirate/samurai/ninja/sword interest I WOULD have bought such an item before the ban.
Now thats just me who would only have displayed the sword on the wall,in a locked secure room-Just think about those who have no respect for others,thugs,muggers-
I bet alot of those types did stock up before the ban.
Thats worrying,the ban could have caused an influx of such weapons into the very hands of those who should not possess any blades-The criminals.

Originally posted by Silcone Synapse
my first thought was,I should buy a sword-I will not be able to after the ban!

Whenever there is talk of a ban in the U.S. the sale of the particular thing to be banned skyrockets.

Personally, I wouldn't own half the firearms I do if it weren't for all the "ban" talk. My state was playing with microstamping a few months ago. It didn't pass thankfully but the weekend before the hearing I went out and doubled my collection of handguns. Not because I wanted them or needed them but because I was afraid I wouldn't be able to get them if the bill had passed. And I'm not the only one. Now I have all these handguns that are too large to carry and too expensive to shoot on a regular basis. An attempt to disarm the states residents just put a whole load of guns into their homes that they wouldn't sell if their lives depended on it because they don't know if they'll always be able to have them.

Maybe all this "ban" bull is intentionally fueled by the weapons manufacturers to make some quick cash?
There's a conspiracy for ya.

As a side note, the only thing the Clinton AWB did was make a lot of people who stocked up on high-cap magazines before the ban a lot of money selling them for 500% what they paid for them during the ban.

Maybe you should have stocked up on samurai swords to sell privately at a profit?

Last month a gang of youths, one armed with a samurai sword, attacked a 15-year-old boy in Newry, County Down.

So kids attack other kids with fake samurai sword. Nonesense!! Kids can go and break off a branch from a tree and make a better weapon! Its called a quarter staff, and much more deadly than any sword!

Banning these swords will serve no purpose other than showing their true Nazi colors! If kids are going to attack someone, they can do it will just about anything! Pens, steak knifes, you name it. Sissors, gezzz.

Anyway.. This is just another nonesense bill that will serve no greater good, but will sertinly serve the greater evils.
Besides a true Samurai sword is not easy to come by. ITs carbon steel is folded over 100 times, and makes its temper very strong. So strong infact it can parry a claymore X2 its size.
Thus these little punks get a carbon blade thats folded maybe two times, and they call it a samurai sword.. LOL laughable!
Remakes are one thing.. The real deal is another!
I love swords, and have had many since I was very young. They always stayed on my walls, and never walked around town with my swords.
The only place I would adorn my weaponry is at the renaissance fair !
So no more renaissance fair for the UK..

[edit on 16-4-2008 by zysin5]

Just to let you guys know, I'm now bowing out of this, as 44soulslayer and I have arranged to debate the subject at a later date, and I don't want to give too much more away

It's been fun and interesting as always, so thanks one and all for a good discussion

reply to post by budski


Ok Budski,
You have a valid argument so I will look forward to the viewing the debate friend.
I do hope you guys will discuss the difference between a maniac fool who wishes to harm others with a sword ,and those who are genuine collectors or blacksmiths who make swords.

(my main issue with this is the Blacksmith thing-my friends who are budding or Pro blacksmiths are no longer allowed to make certain shaped blades.)

I feel that this is a real shame,and I would love it if you addressed this issue in the debate.
Thanks Budski.

Yup, we will be debating this issue in a challenge match soon hopefully.
Hence I think we will both be bowing out of this thread to "conserve ammo" for the real fight

I hope you guys continue to discuss this though.

Ok, read a few posts, my main worry about this is, as a genuine collector why should I be penalised due to a few idiots who decide to be stupid?

Not to mention the fact a kitchen knife isn't made to kill someone, it has the exact same effect if you are going to use it as a weapon.

I see absolutely NO valid reason except for looking like they are doing work why the government made such a dumb decision, but they have angered MANY people, me for one.

I take great pride in my ownership of samurai swords and such as a collector and penalised due to "they are dangerous weapons" is one of the most stupid things I've heard in my life!

Take the samurai swords away? You think someone wont find an alternate method? IDIOTS! Plain and simple.

One of the best hand weapons of all time is a 4 foot long steel reinforcement bar used in construction. Another old favorite is the wood chopping Ax. No home should be without a defense plan.
Otherwise you are sheep without a sheppard. And there are wolves out there.

reply to post by Wreckagemaster


Law abiding gun owners feel the same about firearms. In most societies, its the 5% who screw things up for the rest. Plus, you have misinformed, ignorant politicians who make the laws based on supposedly unbiased media source.

Welcome to population control.

well ive read most of these post on here and well im 17 and i own a set of katanas they stay in my room on display but i also enjoy train with sword due to the fact i dont want to get stoped by the police me and my friend train in a woods that few ppl go to but we also have to just use stick that can take a gd few blows the fact is i would NEVER fight someone unless i am back into a corner and have no other route but im am unable to carry a simple training sword so me and my friend can train in a large area to train

we do not train so we can fight we train to keep fit and most of all we enjoy it as everyone one here has said a sword a gun anythink that can be use to harm is a tool if u plan to hurt someone with them it is you not the tool that should be banned (i know u cant banned ppl so lets just put them in jail) or we could just go back to the middle ages and let everyone carry a sword if they so wish then very few ppl would be able to go round killing the way i see it has been put poorly here but i never have been good with words

so why should i not train with a wooden sword if i am controled and not insane?

Originally posted by ukmicky1980
hi mate,

The article also says..

Exemptions will cover swords which are used for re-enactments or antique weapons kept on display by collectors.

I have no problem with this as I cant think of a single reason someone would want, or need a sword for any other reason than those two above.

Sure there is if you're a redneck like me.


Save gas, use a sword!