UK sword ban becomes law, page 1

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Topic started on 8-4-2008 @ 07:23 AM by thisguyrighthere

Legislation against selling, making, hiring or importing samurai swords in England and Wales has come into force. Those breaking the law face six months in jail and a £5,000 fine. Source

So all the violent/crazed "samurai sword" wielding marauders will move onto cutlasses, claymores, rapiers, etc...?

Then blame all swords for the stupidity of others. In come steak knives and sticks and rocks as weapons. Ban rocks and sticks?

When they made it so only criminals would be able to get guns everyone said the slippery slope was a fabricated and paranoid delusion. Well, here we are banning "samurai swords." No slippery slope?

reply posted on 8-4-2008 @ 07:34 AM by ukmicky1980

hi mate,

The article also says..

Exemptions will cover swords which are used for re-enactments or antique weapons kept on display by collectors.

I have no problem with this as I cant think of a single reason someone would want, or need a sword for any other reason than those two above.

But, criminals, as a rule, have no regard for the law, and if they want one, they're going to get one, no new law is going to stop that.

reply posted on 8-4-2008 @ 07:44 AM by hinky

It's silly laws like this that caused us to break away from The Crown in 1776 and establish our Constitution that guarantees us the right to carry guns.

Only in the last 30 years or so has this Constitutional right been assaulted by people who wish to disarm the population as a group. Thankfully, the USA has a legal system so incredibly screwed up, anyone can sue anyone for anything, that a case is before the Supreme Court over gun ownership from the strictest city with the most comprehensive antigun laws.

Where does one draw the line. I noted the article specifically mentions imported swords. Does make a loophole for the domestic sword companies to continue manufacturing and selling illicit swords?

reply posted on 8-4-2008 @ 07:53 AM by WestPoint23

Originally posted by ukmicky1980
I have no problem with this as I cant think of a single reason someone would want, or need a sword for any other reason than those two above.

You have never heard of personal preference? And they obviously only exempted large well established institution's (museums etc...) and or very influential and affluent individuals; not Joe down the street who likes to create and collect swords a hobby. One of the most absurd recent developments for sure, another retarded paranoid move on the part of the UK with regards to "weapons". Hell, if I want to use a sword as a paperweight then so be it, I could care less what someone else thinks they should our shouldn't be used for.

"This ban is part of our wider strategy to tackle serious violent crime. Later this year we will launch a new advertising campaign aimed at preventing young people carrying knives."

Oh man, what's next, preventing the "young people" from carrying metal pens since they can be used to kill someone? I'm all for tough on crime, but I'm not for (in my opinion) irresponsible and unnecessary intrusion into such areas, this is taking it too far.

[edit on 8-4-2008 by WestPoint23]

reply posted on 8-4-2008 @ 09:06 AM by dave420

reply to post by WestPoint23

If the sole purpose of a metal pen was to kill people, and they were being used en masse for such a purpose, then fair enough.

The homicide levels in the UK disagree that this is a stupid move. Allowing anyone to own anything they want would surely cause a massive leap in the homicide levels, as we can see in the US. No thanks.

reply posted on 8-4-2008 @ 09:21 AM by azzllin

I attend many rituals where a sword is part and parcel of the ceremony, i really wouldn't like to see the outcome if police raided one of those because there was a sword involved, no harm is ever intended.

Again it comes down to the few get the rest of Britain punished, this damn government has got to realize, making everyone pay for a few idiots is so wrong, why not put the criminals in prison for a change and allow people to keep their hobbies, i have several swords, and ceremonial knives and daggers, and they wont be taking them without a fight i promise ya.

They did the same thing with guns, and now only the crooks have them, if we all had them i bet the criminals wouldn't break in just in case the owner shot them.

OOOH wait we have had that, remember the criminals who broke into the farmers house? he shot one of them and went to prison. i forgot the injustice behind it all, rob a bank get probation, defend yourself and go to jail.

Or follow the law and try and defend yourself, leave a widow and a few fatherless children, while the hoody scum walk free,

Maybe a new law cover your face and intimidate someone and we put you in the stocks, then pelt you with anything we can find, the drag you in public without a hood and let everyone see your a kid.

or simply make them sweep the streets in a bright orange uniform in the same area where they cause the problems and let everyone see the cowards, and allow their friends to see how cool life can get.

[edit on 8/4/2008 by azzllin]

reply posted on 8-4-2008 @ 09:27 AM by eyewitness86

reply to post by dave420

Well, then why not ban ALL knives? I mean, can't you Brits see the danger in allowing anyone to have a kitchen knife? The kids might steal it and go on a rampage, right? If all knives and sharp instruments were made illegal, then the people who want to stab someone would use a pencil, or fashion their own knives and stabbing weapons from metal..or they would use a pencil shapened really well, right? Why not ban pencils, after all, they can be sued to stab as well, right?

Then, we can ban anything that some jerk could use to fashion a knife from..all metals and hard plastics should be banned as well, correct? Get a grip Brits: An armed society is a polite society. If all Brits carried a pistol, a lot of crimes would be stopped by the people when they happened...now if something happens, you have to wait until a cop arrives, who will no doubt react wrongly and arrest the wrong person anyway!!

You cannot ban all items that can be made into a weapon...it cannot happen. So banning certain types of knives and swords is stupid, totally stupid. How many kids were carrying huge samurai swords around anyway? It could not possible be a huge issue; it is just one more example of CONTROL of the people. The cop's in the UK are treated like God's now as it is....next they will be able to place people directly into prison and avoid all the hassles of a trrial...will that make you safer?

The UK is GONE: Cameras all over, weapons only in the hands of the cop's and crooks, both not worthy of trust...trash bins with microchips, tolls everywhere, draconian laws that restrict the people more and more...and you feel SAFE in a place like that? You are ONE step away from total control and yet some see it as a good thing...unreal.

reply posted on 8-4-2008 @ 11:01 AM by Zelong

reply to post by thisguyrighthere

Yes craze law when all anyone has to do is sharpen up a piece of metal plate like they do in Africa,timor ,Papua New Guinea etc... and they have a machete that will break a samurai sword

........

reply posted on 8-4-2008 @ 11:40 AM by 44soulslayer

Originally posted by dave420

The homicide levels in the UK disagree that this is a stupid move. Allowing anyone to own anything they want would surely cause a massive leap in the homicide levels, as we can see in the US. No thanks.

Because you have figures for the number of murders committed with samurai swords to make such a statement, do you? Or do you believe the government? Hmm lets see how trusting the government worked out for us...

They banned handguns here and gun murders doubled. Havent you learnt anything from that?

Ban weapons and only the criminals will have them... its the truth whether its guns or swords.

I dont personally want a samurai sword, but I can see no reason to prevent others from owning one.

Another thing is: Why specifically samurai swords? Are they any more lethal than a normal sword? We have laws against carrying swords in public anyway... why not enforce those instead of banning everything with a remotely sharp point or just because of their fearsome reputation.

The attitude of this government is pathetically condescending... its the equivalent of giving plastic scissors to preschoolers instead of metal ones in case they hurt themselves; except the last time I checked I wasnt a preschooler.

reply posted on 8-4-2008 @ 11:45 AM by groingrinder

Legalize handguns. Then you will not have to worry about crazy people with swords. I have both. Just to be on the safe side.

[edit on 4-8-2008 by groingrinder]

reply posted on 8-4-2008 @ 12:05 PM by dave420

reply to post by groingrinder

Then you have to worry about crazy people with handguns. I'd rather not worry about either, and have an effective police force, who guarantee any officer with a gun is not drunk, is not experiencing personal issues, is not on drugs, and is in full control of their faculties. Too often sensible gun owners suffer a breakdown of some sort (due to substance abuse, psychological issues (depression, etc.), wife cheating on them, etc.) and use that gun for reasons other than self-defense. That's what I don't like.

reply posted on 8-4-2008 @ 12:09 PM by dave420

reply to post by 44soulslayer

The fact you can't buy guns on street corners means it's very much more difficult to get one. And the fact they're illegal means when they're discovered, they're removed and destroyed. Removing weapons is one part of the struggle against violence, the other part is figuring out why people are acting so violent. Obviously the second part takes a great deal of time and resources, whereas the first part can be implemented rather quickly, and will immediately lower the number of deaths from firearms. Once the cause of this violence is removed, by all means give everyone nukes for all I care.

As for swords, if people are running around streets with them (which they definitely have done), then the same approach is warranted - remove the swords, fix the problem of why people are doing this, then give it back.

If society continues to act like children, society should expect to be treated as such.

reply posted on 8-4-2008 @ 12:22 PM by memoir

Calls for a ban came after a number of high-profile incidents in which cheap Samurai-style swords had been used as a weapon. The Home Office estimates there have been some 80 attacks in recent years involving Samurai-style blades, leading to at least five deaths. While genuine Samurai swords are part of Japanese history and change hands for large sums of money, there is a trade in imitation blades which can be bought over the internet for as little as £35.

from news.bbc.co.uk...

--------------------

I'm speechless.

I mean... ok... let's be tough on crime and all... but this just sounds absurd... like something Stephen Colbert would make up... but no, he didn't make it up.

80 attacks in recent years with Samurai-style blades leading to at least five deaths = ....drum roll please.... ban fake samurai swords.

That's a hell of a conclusion to come to.

I wonder how many people were killed by people wielding Louisville Sluggers. Maybe they should also make all fake baseball bats illegal.

I can only shake my head.

reply posted on 8-4-2008 @ 12:33 PM by thisguyrighthere

Originally posted by dave420
The fact you can't buy guns on street corners means it's very much more difficult to get one.

Not true where I am. I had to go to a class, prove competence/ability, get letters attesting to my psychological health and well-being, pay something like $150 in fees, wait 6 months all to get the permit to purchase and carry.

Now whenever I purchase I have to fill out 4 different forms that all say the same things in different ways then call the Department of Public Safety and ask them to check my permit number, the dealers permit number, assign us both a number for the sale and send copies of all documents pertaining to the sale to the local police department.

All this when on my way to the gun shop I pass three places I know I can get a gun for half the price as quickly as I can produce the cash to do so in a state that claims to be destroying illegal firearms when confiscated.

Which is easier to do? I'm just a sucker for being law-abiding I guess.

reply posted on 8-4-2008 @ 02:13 PM by 44soulslayer

Originally posted by dave420
The fact you can't buy guns on street corners means it's very much more difficult to get one.

Naive thinking mate, naive thinking. Like I said, gun murders doubled after the handgun ban. Guns arent harder to get... they are just outlawed to the good, honest law abiding man.

Your logic is that if you ban something, it is harder to get... Riiiight, because that has worked so very well with Drug prohibition hmm.

And the fact they're illegal means when they're discovered, they're removed and destroyed.

Either the weapons were lawfully owned by law abiding owners, or they were illegally owned by criminals. In the prior scenario there is no reason to disarm good people; and in the latter the criminals are already holding guns illegally... which means they have committed a crime.

Removing weapons is one part of the struggle against violence, the other part is figuring out why people are acting so violent. Obviously the second part takes a great deal of time and resources, whereas the first part can be implemented rather quickly, and will immediately lower the number of deaths from firearms. Once the cause of this violence is removed, by all means give everyone nukes for all I care.

Clearly im talking to a wall here. Check the statistics for yourself and see how well the handgun ban has worked. Im sick and tired of explaining the basic facts to people who refuse to think logically, and simply get their views from the newspaper/ mothers of crime victims.

As for swords, if people are running around streets with them (which they definitely have done), then the same approach is warranted - remove the swords, fix the problem of why people are doing this, then give it back.

If society continues to act like children, society should expect to be treated as such.

If you had checked, you would have seen that there were 6 murders since 2003-2008 using samurai swords. In the first 2 months of 2008 itself, there were 9 murders using knives in London.

Why arent they tackling the real issue of violence here? The reason is because they cant... that would take actual policing rather than disarming law abiding citizens.

Banning samurai swords is nothing more than pathetic posturing once more from the government, like they did post-Dunblane.

reply posted on 8-4-2008 @ 10:15 PM by IspyU

instead of banning the sword, they should of enforce a more strict law for carrying it around and using as a weapon to commit a crime and increase the penalty... that would of been a more sensible thing to do

reply posted on 8-4-2008 @ 10:25 PM by darkelf

Originally posted by IspyU
instead of banning the sword, they should of enforce a more strict law for carrying it around and using as a weapon to commit a crime and increase the penalty... that would of been a more sensible thing to do

Agreed! My husband and I collect edged weapons. This is just art to us, although they are all "live" steel. I would hate to see a law like that passed here. We have a large number of replicas from movies as well as a "fantasy" collection. There is a beauty to finely honed steel.

reply posted on 8-4-2008 @ 10:49 PM by Cuhail

reply to post by darkelf

Me too. I own 24 carbon steel swords. Windlass, Del Tin, A&A and Starfire (no Gus Trim or Albion....yet!). I can take any one of them and walk around town wearing it on my belt. Until I unscabbard it and threaten someone with it, I'm totally within the boundary of the law.
It takes the person weilding it to decide to use it. The sword is a tool.
Anywhere in my home, within 10 feet, is a bladed weapon. If they become illegal here, there will still be a bladed weapon within 10 feet.

Now, I consider it an investment, my collection, and though they were technically created for only one reason, they carry such a source of pride to me for collecting so many at my income level, that any law banning them would fall on deaf ears.

Mine!

Cuhail

reply posted on 8-4-2008 @ 10:59 PM by deadline527

This is just plain stupid in my opinion. If someone wants to kill someone they are going to find a way to do it. I wonder how long until they decide that martial arts is deemed too dangerous and it will be illegal since your body then becomes a weapon. Where do you draw the line? If you ban one weapon such as a sword, you are also going to have to eventually ban axes, maces, halberds, knives, throwing stars, etc...

Eventually anyone caught holding ANY object will be deemed a criminal, because god knows that suitcase you carry every day could definitely do some damage.

reply posted on 9-4-2008 @ 01:03 AM by Obsurion

Originally posted by deadline527
This is just plain stupid in my opinion. If someone wants to kill someone they are going to find a way to do it. I wonder how long until they decide that martial arts is deemed too dangerous and it will be illegal since your body then becomes a weapon. Where do you draw the line? If you ban one weapon such as a sword, you are also going to have to eventually ban axes, maces, halberds, knives, throwing stars, etc...

Eventually anyone caught holding ANY object will be deemed a criminal, because god knows that suitcase you carry every day could definitely do some damage.

It's exactly what this open fence line of thinking will do. not much else to do, if they want it, let them have it. they'll choke on it eventually. this might be a crude comment, but from the outside looking in it looks like the whole society is driven by the hands of fear. No will to intentionally stop the problem at the source, or the stable view of possible outcomes for such frivilous laws.

So you have an underground crime problem, ever tried using armed force? So there's an extremist movement within your borders? did the government consider more strict immigration policies? Urban pollution within the city of london? instead they charge the citizens with ownership of select vehicles, when such forms of transportation were openly imported. from the outside in it looks like a land of confusion, but im in no position to judge.

Ok so let me get this straight, to crack down on crime we are regressing on weapons technology. Now that Projectile weaponry is banned we must also ban melee weapons such as swords.

Guns>>>Swords>>>Clubs/Blunt>>>Bricks>>>Rocks>>>Fists>>>Verbal Abuse>>>Unplesant Thoughts>>Stimulant(source)

well at least it's a step in the right direction i suppose. you have a while before the problem is actually solved.

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