Iran proposes missile shield against U.S., Israel

Originally posted by TeslaandLyne
Well they are a bit confused.

Nowhere near as confused as I am after reading any of your posts. Do you intentionally post in riddles ALL of the time???

China will get a share of iranian oil and Russia will keep Ukraine. Remember the US military is designed to fight on numerous fronts against the Russians and Chinese etc at the same time. All this talk about Iraq and Iran at the same time is a laugh. If the US takes off the gloves then Iran can be taken out in no time. The main pillar within The Axis of Evil can be toppled in days.

reply to post by ufoorbhunter
I'm starting to get the distinct impression that the majority of Americans are delusional when it comes to US military might.

Many, many moons ago we were a superpower, but today we're a mere shadow of our former selves. We have a lot of new technology, but that's it. Without our air superiority, we'd be doomed.

I love America too, but let's try to be realistic. We haven't had a real victory since WWII. The best we've been able to do is carpet bomb people, and I don't consider that as winning.

I love America too and I'm a Brit. I know that I'd be speaking German if it wasn't for the USA. I know I'd be speaking Russian if it wasn't for the USA. I am with the USA when it comes to Iran. They must be taken out IF there is to be any chance of peace in the ME.

Originally posted by ufoorbhunter
I love America too and I'm a Brit. I know that I'd be speaking German if it wasn't for the USA. I know I'd be speaking Russian if it wasn't for the USA. I am with the USA when it comes to Iran. They must be taken out IF there is to be any chance of peace in the ME.

Well Lenin rallied the masses against the Czar.
His army had better weapons, funded by I am not sure of.

Hitler rallied the masses against Europe, Russia, UK and America.
Funded by invisible money I never pinpointed.

The masses being rallied today are the American Armed Forces.
Where they are going I do not know.
Funded by oil perhaps and American taxes.

The ultimate word is coming down to the America tax payer.
I don't see this armed mass doing much more unless it gets
financial help. Tax money is drying up.

Talk of war all you want, its not going to happen.

ED: Perhaps our $3 and soon $5 gas is fueling the war, so drive
around and support the war with IRAN.
The IRAN WAR is a sure bet now with $5 gas pumps priming the
war machine.



[edit on 4/8/2008 by TeslaandLyne]

Do pro war Americans here really believe that Russia and China is going to sit back while they allow the US/Israel to take Iran out if you do then there is something wrong with your logic. Both the aforementioned countries know full well what the US is up to, they know they dont wont US bases on their borders ready to pounce on either one of them.

The US knows that Russia and China are a threat to its global ambitions and it is almost certain that Iran is the patsy that will be used by the other two to attack the US forces in the me and they have the means and the willpower to do it. Whats America going to do, risk a full nuke attack on the US I dont think so.

America is stretching, the Russians and Chinese are just waiting for the right moment to attack. Only a fool would think that the US can continue on its rampage without a devastating response at some point. And the best time to stike is when your enemy is up to its armpits and bogged down in regional conflicts that it cannot extricate itself from.

A likely scenario would be a Russian backed attack on US forces in the Gulf and a Chinese attack on Taiwan. Again with its forces engaged elsewhere what can America do. But maybe thats the plan, maybe the crap for brains in the US want such a conflict to dig them out of that big financial black hole they have got themselves into. And maybe they dont give a toss for their own people or anyone else's

A massive missile attack on all US assets in the ME should do the trick. Public opinion in the US would scream pull out of the ME. The US Goverment would have two choices continue the fight or back down. And they will back down unless the madmen in charge are ready to have their people incinerated.

reply to post by LLoyd45


This has nothing to do with loyalty to Israel. This is about hegemony. Israel has only been with us since they left the patronage of France after 1967.

On the other hand we have been building hegemony or empire since we crossed the Appalachians. This is about us, our future and national interests. You could say this is a type of Manifest Destiny.

If you look at our history you'll see Jews and Israel have very little to do with our ambitions and goals. Israel is just going along for the ride.

reply to post by LLoyd45


So you think were not a superpower. I have to say many many experts American and non American would have to highly disagree with you on that.

Should I mention our Super Carriers that travel with our numerous Carrier battle groups. No one on earth has anything remotley like it.

Should I mention our Bomber forces with numerous B-2 stealth bombers that are way beyond anything out there. Plus our large strategic bomber forces of B-1s and B-52s.

Should I mention we have over 7000 modern combat tanks. The Russians may have 20,000 but most of their tanks are anywhere from 50 to 40 years old. One M-1 company could take on a Brigade of T-55s and T-62s.

How do you think we beat the Germans and Japanese? It wasn't surgical strikes. It was carpet bombing and atomic bombs. Real carpet bombing where no target is off limits. Dresden, Tokyo, Hiroshima, Nagasaki.

We dont do that anymore. We havn't done it since WW2 and we havn't had a total victory since WW2 either. Hmm.

This one still has me laughing all I can imagine is targets going poof.....followed by rockets (sheild) going off after targets destroyed....look, to date the only real threat to the US comes from Russia..or did anyway. But 20 plus years of letting their military turn to rust and scientists leave has them flying prop driven bear bombers.

[edit on 8-4-2008 by TXMACHINEGUNDLR]

Another war...coming soon.

Originally posted by magicmushroom
America is stretching, the Russians and Chinese are just waiting for the right moment to attack.

Keep dreaming.

I can't understand for the life of me, why people who are SO against EVERYTHING the US does and rail against every action of our government (which I am against as well, most of the time), always look to Russia and China as future saviors of the world. It's a joke. I almost wish we would step down, pull back and let them see what a world ruled by those governments would be like

Only a fool would think that the US can continue on its rampage without a devastating response at some point. And the best time to stike is when your enemy is up to its armpits and bogged down in regional conflicts that it cannot extricate itself from.

I don't think we are Russia or China's enemy, we disagree with them quite a bit, but we are not enemies. Also, there isn't ONE conflict that we couldn't pull out of very quickly if a larger more pressing issue came up.

A likely scenario would be a Russian backed attack on US forces in the Gulf and a Chinese attack on Taiwan. Again with its forces engaged elsewhere what can America do. But maybe thats the plan, maybe the crap for brains in the US want such a conflict to dig them out of that big financial black hole they have got themselves into. And maybe they dont give a toss for their own people or anyone else's

A massive missile attack on all US assets in the ME should do the trick. Public opinion in the US would scream pull out of the ME. The US Goverment would have two choices continue the fight or back down. And they will back down unless the madmen in charge are ready to have their people incinerated.

Serious? Do you honestly believe that? In ALL that fantasy BS you just posted, and calling the US government madmen who don't give a "toss" for their own people, you also indirectly said the same thing about Russia and China, because you fail miserably to take into account our equally massive nuclear arsenal which would incinerate their people JUST as quickly. You REALLY think Russia and China care about Iran enough to commit suicide? I know you don't, you were just pulling our chains, you had to be...

Really?
Three pages of drivel. Not one person that understands politics has posted yet...and I am not one of them either.
But...
Don't any of you understand how different the people in Iran are from Iraq. How many different groups of Muslims live in Iran?
If you think Bush is unpopular here in the U.S. You should see how unpopular the Mulah's (that run Iran by the way) are, they would applaud them being taken out. They were singing our praises when we got rid of the dictator and of course cursing us when we brought back a dictator Amadenajad is just a mouth piece by the way.

Don't forget after 9/11 they were going to help us out and saw it as an opportunity to get out of the corner we put them in, (not to mention they were scared #less that we thought it was them) but nonetheless they were happy as hell to help us but NOOOOOO, we have to be all arrogant.

Do you also remember that just recently China, (probably got busted or saw that they were about to) anyway, China came to the U.N. to narc on Iran. So that to me would indicate that China is all about China and won't lift a finger for Iran. Did any of you posters listen to Momar (can't spell it) you know, Qadafi, did you hear his speech to his arab buddies at their get together. He pointed out that they all need to stop hating each other and recognize a common enemy. The point being they all hate each other and it is every man or country for themselves.

Russia? what the hell is in it for them to help Iran?

Anyone that knows anything, knows that Iran is the perfect place for a coup.

There will not be any war with Iran. (caveat...under this administration they may have some other objective and it would have to be nafarious if it resulted in anything more than some strategic strikes if we had to) If we do anything more then I will join the chorus that sings, Bush is a war criminal.

So much ignorance on so many levels. First off, we are not fighting "insurgents and terrorists" in iraq, we are fighting iraqi nationals who are fighting for their right to self determination. I think an occupying force responsible for the deaths of 1.2 million civilians sounds more like terrorism to me. Secondly, Putin has already had talks with the Ayatolluh offering alliance and to see any attack on Iran as an attack on russia.
While america is pretty much safe from invasion on our homefront, we are by no means invulnerable when fighting a war on the other side of the world. To those saying we would go in and flatten them...well we did flatten and utterly destroy the whole country of vietnam, and they fought us off with no money, many makeshift weapons, and human spirit and courage. We dropped more than twice as many bombs on one country than ALL SIDES OF WWII dropped combined, and yet they won.
I dont think china and ussr will sit by mostly because i think many countries at this point are more driven by their anger at american imperialism than they are by greed, and i think most countries are seeing now what will likely be happening to them soon if they dont stop us now.

As for Iran...how did you put it? "allowing inspectors to monitor their nuclear program and conceeding to the demands" of the U.S.?? come on, be serious! They have done EVERYTHING that has been demanded of them, despite the fact that no other countries submit to such degradation and flaunting of their sovereignty. Not even the U.S. All the inspectors agree that Iran NEVER had a nuclear weaponization program. On top of which, Iran is the ONLY country that has agreed to submit to the IAEA, and is a compliant member of the Nuclear nonproliferation treaty, whereas america is the largest producer and distributer of nuclear weapons in the world. Furthermore, Iran has attacked no one in their region since WWII other than Iraq, i believe, and that was instigated by the United states.
to most other countries its obvious now that the US is the greatest threat to international security in the world, and if i were the leader of a foreign country i would be doing everything i could to attain nuclear status as it seems that is the only thing that keeps you safe from direct military attack from US.
And finally, though the outcome is FAR from sure as many people here seem to think, what good is victory in iraq if all the people of america are left poor and destitute? I see people here talking about us handling the rise in gas prices and countering with research in alternate fuels..... Are you serious!!?? Is your head in the sand??? our whole economy is collapsing right now, our banking system is in freefall, jobs are dissappearing in the thousands DAILY, and houseing is bust. The petrodollar is about to change to the petro euro, european countries are beginning to refuse to accept dollars, and even Isreal is requesting our foreign aid be given in euros. our infrastructure is falling apart, we are losing homes, and money that could help that is going to this 4trillion dollar war we already have, and you think we could afford to start another war on top of this? Dont be foolish

Oh, and to the fool who said we "would avoid infrastructure and civilian targets"..... Well we've never done that in a SINGLE other war. In all wars we have fought we have torn down civilian, medical, infrastructure, utilities, water. IN fact, in WWII we were the greatest perpetrators of targeting civilians in an effort to sap the will of the people to fight. Not to forget the bombing of hiroshima and nagasaki, two large mostly civilian cities consisting of mostly women and children. And lets not forget dresden....or the pharmeceutical labs in sudan. Lets get real and truly see what our country is doing rather than repeating rhetoric. Patriotism is not burying your head in the ground and just coming up for air to say "yay country" it truly looking at what your country is doing and resolving to make it better.

reply to post by pexx421


Ignorance? You do know that many of what you called Iraqi nationals are Foreign Fighters. Foreign as in not from Iraq.

The vast majority of the deaths in the War has been Factional fighting or Factions attacking civilians. Before the surge over 1000 Iraqis died a week due to infighting or being killed by Insurgents.

Vietnam was two different nations at the time. North and South. We were in the South fighting the VC and NVA. We Never Occupied North Vietnam nor did we flatten both countries. We mostly bombed the crap out of alot of jungle.

USSR? What? That hasnt existed since well 1991. 1991.

America is not the largest holder and doesn't distribute nuclear weapons. As far as I know, No One distributes nuclear weapons.

Russia actually has the most nuclear weapons on earth.

Iran attacking Iraq was instigated by Iraq, primarily Saddam Hussein.

Our economy is having issues for sure but nothing we havn't been able to handle before. I would be more worried about food shortages, energy, and Bird Flu in the near future, but its not the end of the world. We have had rough times before, when we start to approach the level of hell that was the Black Plague or Mongol Conquests (adjusted for popular inflation ) I might get worried, but until then its just crap as usual on earth. Wars, diseases, starvation, alarm, and silly people who might need to take some college level history classes.

Originally posted by LLoyd45
reply to post by MikeboydUS

 

Well if we're not overextended, why all the hesistancy to send in more troops?

Mikeyboyed already answered that question. The US is not overextended in regards to the Marines, airforce, and Navy.

We can't even control a basically disarmed Iraq,

DISARMED??? As in no weapons?! If you seriously think that Iraq has been disarmed, you are ignorant (I call it like I see it) and grossly mistaken.

how in the World would we take on Iran who has a real army, a real air force, and real soldiers?

Conventional warfare is where America really excels 'second to none,' please do not speak of things you have no clue about.

That's assuming Russsia or China doesn't intercede on their behalf.[/quot]

Yes, let us talk about the logistical nightmare that would be for Russia, and China whose militarys are both made primarily up of obsolete soviet union era weaponry...

Maybe that's what Russia and China actually want us to do. Overextend ourself like Hitler did, then stomp us into the sand.

Please, you have already managed to show us so much ignorance, there is no need to show us your ignorance on history.

reply to post by pexx421



Uh, we do try to avoid civilian buildings. I've seen missions scrapped due to potential damage or casualties to civilians and their homes a number of times.

I did mention World War Two was different. It was a Total War. Eisenhower after the war wanted us to never fight like that again, thinking that it leads to World Wars. How can you compare Dresden to a Pharmaceutical facility hit due to bad intel? Good grief. We might as well compare the Chinese embassy hit in Belgrade to Hiroshima.

Originally posted by LLoyd45
Americans are delusional when it comes to US military might.

Define military might.

Many, many moons ago we were a superpower, but today we're a mere shadow of our former selves.

I get the distinct impression that you would love nothing more than the US to just simply evaporate into thin air.

However, you to a degree, are correct. The US is not considered a superpower, but a hyperpower.

the US has nearly $14T in GNP, no other nation compares, or even comes close to that.

We have a lot of new technology, but that's it. Without our air superiority, we'd be doomed.

Americas technological prowess over much of the world is considered a strategic (arms) advantage.

I love America too, but let's try to be realistic. We haven't had a real victory since WWII.

Nevermind the successful campaignes in toppling the Iraqi and Afghanistan governments...

The thing about WWII, was the American people were willing participants who supported the "cause."

The best we've been able to do is carpet bomb people, and I don't consider that as winning.

do you even understand what carpet bombing is?

[edit on 8-4-2008 by West Coast]

by best estimates at most its about 7% of the people we are fighting in iraq are from other countries. 7%. Thats not really many.
Even before we went to war there 500,000 children died due to starvation, malnutrition, and lack of basic needs due to our embargo's, and admitted to and even embraced by Secretary of State Madelyn Albright.
In Vietnam, we attacked villages of both north and south vietnamese, killing over 2 million of them, as well as killing hundreds of thousands of Laosians and Cambodians, and the country and most cities were completely destroyed after we left.
I meant to say Russia not USSR : ) oops!!
As to the Iraq/Iran war, iraq would not have done it without US approval and backing, which we did with money, arms, and weapons of mass destruction (chemicals)
As far as us not distributing weapons....where did Isreal get their 200+ nuclear warheads from again? I must have misheard. And we also supported pakistans nuclear program and now are supporting India's as well.
And finally the bird flu is a farce, and a farce that has transferred billions of dollars from the american taxpayer to the pharmeceutical industry which makes me mad in and of itsself, And the crisis facing US market have NEVER been experienced here before. We have been Supported by 3 main pillars since WWII, 1) we are the world reserve currency, 2) all oil is traded solely in dollars, and 3)our dollar had more stability than any other currencies. All three of these things are now changing and we're not going to just brush it off. If you recall (or not, if you've never read about it) but prior to WWII we had just been through the great depression which is worse than anyone now can even contemplate, and if you study american history you will have noted that prior to that our country had pretty severe depressions every decade. We have had nothing like that since, and very few understands what it really means or has plans to deal with it....thats AFTER the fact that no one is even willing to admit its possible.
But i agree with you that its not the end of the world, indeed i think the end of american imperialism will most likely be a good thing looking back on our record of war and destruction in the world in the last 60 years. I have no problem with going back to a simple life, indeed i think i might like it...i just get disturbed seeing everyone walking around like little tv monitors espousing just the garbage they hear from Fox or CNN, with no ability to look up facts for themselves and see what is really going on.
And i wasnt comparing dresden to sudan, my point is that at no time are we able to specifically target non civilian targets only, and in fact we often do it intentionally. Do you really think sudans pharma, or belgrades embassy were accidents? Even if you do, all this junk about our smart bombs is so much crap. It is often left out of the news how many innocents die along with whatever target we are attacking, and what we see in the news is always vastly different then what i see from friends in the military...city streets lined with pieces of iraqi women and children.
And to west coast...yes, prior to our current war, Iraq was "dissarmed" in the way of having no armored vehicles, air power, or real ballistic explosive types. So no, they had no way to fight back against a military force, and so yes they resort to the same methods of any poor weak country being oppressed and occupied by a strong rich foe...with "terrorist" suicide attacks and guerrilla tactics, just like in vietnam, korea, japan, and just like we would most likely do if it happened here.

As far as us supporting the "cause" in WWII....well, we supported a lot of causes in WWII, including fueling and arming Hitlers Nazi's....even well into the war. We didnt enter cause it was the "right" thing to do, we entered because it was the expedient thing for america to do....
Oh, and another thing...i see "in national interests" here a few times... everytime i see "national interest" in my mind i take out the "national" and insert "corporate" because for the most part, these issues rarely have to do with making life better for you and i and usually have to do with great financial gain...for defense contractors, corporate bodies, and construction contractors. For you and I its generally a weakened dollar, friends lost, and more taxes.
and one more thing to add to our financial crisis, since bush came to office the dollar has dropped by 60%!!!! 60!!! And that was BEFORE this years economic collapse, so stuff that in your "everythings fine we'll just switch to alternate fuels!" REdiculous