Is prayer effective?

After reading a post on another thread claiming that research totally disproves the power of prayer it occurred to me that many people have probably been influenced by such derogatory assertions.

Here is a sober, reflective discussion of the outcomes of such research, which some may find very helpful:

www.ncf-jcn.org...

I hope this may restore some balance to this issue, which is a central tenet of many people's faith.

"Jesus was telling them a parable to show that at all times they ought to pray and not to lose heart..." (Luke 18:1)

[edit on 7/4/08 by pause4thought]

I don't understand. That article seems to say to me that praying for people doesn't work.

reply to post by pause4thought


actually, the templeton foundation (they're a religious group) did in fact conduct a study that showed that prayer didn't have any effect..

they studied the effects of prayer on people recovering from heart surgery

there were groups

1: people who weren't being prayed for a knew that they weren't being prayed for (control)

2: people who were being prayed for and didn't know it

3: people who knew they were being prayed for

the difference in group 2 and 3 was to measure if there was a placebo effect

large congregations prayed for each person in 2 and 3 by name

the people in group 1 had the best recovery.

the article you provided fails to even mention this study.

Yea but you need faith to pray... It's easy for a congregation to pray and have no faith, you don't know that madness..

1. I know prayer works, and have seen it all throughout my life.. You will see what I mean at the juddgement seat madness..

anyways I seen cancer cured from prayer by someone who had (real) faith.. A priest granted with the gift of curing...

again I could go into 100s literally in my own families life that I have seen alone to show you prayer works..

Not only words are prayer but dilligence and working doing hard work is a prayer...

But you see at the end God will show you what grace is, and you need to pray or work to recieve graces......

grace is love, when it is all over with God will show you what grace is and how it is gained through prayer...

I will give you an example..

My brother grew up selling dope... So I would constantly prayer for him to change and do the right thing, asking God to grant his hard headed butt graces to stop..

after a while he has come around and now has a successful career... And he keeps thinking to himself how bad he used to be, asking I can't believe that was me back then, ruthless and so forth..


The change was from grace.... because he told me that his conscience kept being effected more and more that he should get out of the game that is dealing and this happened around the time I was praying...

He also knows he feals feelings he has never felt before of love and has a much stronger conscience..

This is one of many stories of grace I have seen in my life...

At the end God will show all souls what grace is and how it can turn a soul around, also how it is effected by prayer..


but people will also believe what they will..

peace.

Originally posted by JesusisTruth
My brother grew up selling dope... So I would constantly prayer for him to change and do the right thing, asking God to grant his hard headed butt graces to stop..

after a while he has come around and now has a successful career... And he keeps thinking to himself how bad he used to be, asking I can't believe that was me back then, ruthless and so forth..


The change was from grace.... because he told me that his conscience kept being effected more and more that he should get out of the game that is dealing and this happened around the time I was praying...

He also knows he feals feelings he has never felt before of love and has a much stronger conscience..
peace.

I pray every night that my brother overcomes his drug addiction and dealing habits. He is high every hour of the day and deals marijuana, '___', coc aine, etc., to the sketchiest people I've ever seen. It hasn't had any effect as of yet, but I will still pray until he gets better. I'll never know if me praying helped anything though. I believe in God, but I'm not sure of the power of prayer.

One crappy and flawed study now invalidates hundreds of other positive studies? I think not. Prayer has been proven to work.

n the most widely publicized studies of the effect of intercessory prayer, cardiologist Randolph Byrd studied 393 patients admitted to the coronary-care unit at San Francisco General Hospital. Some were prayed for by home-prayer groups, others were not. All the men and women got medical care. In this randomized, double-blind study, neither the doctors and nurses nor the patients knew who would be the object of prayer.

The results were dramatic and surprised many scientists.The men and women whose medical care was supplemented with prayer needed fewer drugs and spent less time on ventilators. They also fared better overall than their counterparts who received medical care but nothing more. The prayed-for patients were:

* Significantly less likely to require antibiotics (3 patients versus 16)

* Significantly less likely to develop pulmonary edema-a condition in which the lungs fill with fluid because the heart cannot pump properly (6 versus 18).

* Significantly less likely to require insertion of a tube into the throat to assist breathing (0 versus 12).

* Less likely to die (but this difference was not statistically significant).

Even more outrageous experiments in distance healing involve nonhuman subjects. In a survey of 131 controlled experiments on spiritual healing, it was found that prayed-for rye grass grew taller; prayed-for yeast resisted the toxic effects of cyanide; prayed-for test-tube bacteria grew faster. "I adore these experiments," says Larry Dossey, M.D., perhaps the world's most vocal expert on prayer and medicine. "Because they don't involve humans, you can run them with fanatical precision and you can run them hundreds of times. It's the best evidence of all that prayer can change the world. And it operates as strongly on the other side of the Earth as it does at the bedside."

www.1stholistic.com...

does it work for YOU?

if it does, then yea, i guess it would be effective

if it doesn't..well..

i don't think anyone will ever get a definite answer to the question "is prayer effective"

it's like asking "does god exist"

Firstly, God says don't put me to the test, so any surveys done are putting Gods healing to the test. Therefore i personally don't hold much hope for any type of healing to take place.
I think that this is why so many surveys don't show much of a difference.

Secondly, I have been involved with and part of a prayer ministry team for a number of years and i can say that prayer most certainly does work.

Saying that, there are some criteria that does help tremendously.

I find that when two or more people are praying for the person prayers are answered more often. I think it may have to do with the amount of faith that is being used in the prayers. Maybe not, but there is certainly a difference compared to me sitting at home and praying for someone and being there "hands on, so to speak".
I also find that sometimes prayers are answered in other ways than what you have prayed for.
God seems to want to heal the heart before he tackles a bad back. Logical really.

Many churches have prayer ministry teams and these compose of people that have absolute faith that Jesus heals today. You would be surprised by how many Christians think that only happened is Jesus day.
I have met some Clergy and trainee Clergy that think that way.

A small example of faith.
When i was on prayer ministry duty one day a friend of mine had a severe back ache.
Her five year old daughter said ' why don't you ask Jesus to heal you mummy. She came up for prayer and the minister and myself laid hands on her back, but no healing was taking place. The minister then suggested that her daughter place her hand on her back, and when she did, the prayers were answered and the pain left her mother.
Sometimes we don't know why prayers are not answered but sometimes through Discernment, we can find an answer.

One more thing. There are so many types of prayer that are called for that some type of training is usual before you see a difference in the amount of prayers that are answered for you.
Sometimes more harm than good can be done, especially when dealing with, Let's say, weird happenings.
I have seen some things that i can not and would not say here, but believe me when i say that prayer is more complicated than you think, SOMETIMES.

This post is purely based on my experience as part of a healing ministry.

[edit on 8-4-2008 by jon1]

my 2 cents worth

I am a believer in the power of prayer! I pray daily (well almost) and although I attend church when I can, I tend to have a very open minded view on prayer and faith.

If you find comfort in prayer when you are facing challenges, then prayer will help you. If you find taking the dog for a walk, having a cup of tea with a friend or doing a spot of gardening is comforting to you, well, that is no less effective than prayer.

Whether you are a believer in God (in any religious denomination) or an athiest, what brings you comfort and happiness is what will help you through this lifetime, in sickness and in health.

There are no set rules, we make the rules, but let your feelings be the guide on whether you are on the right path or not.

I hope this makes sense.

Dobbie

reply to post by Dobbie

If you find comfort in prayer when you are facing challenges, then prayer will help you. If you find taking the dog for a walk, having a cup of tea with a friend or doing a spot of gardening is comforting to you, well, that is no less effective than prayer.

I am glad that you believe in prayer but taking the dog for a walk will not change the circumstances that you are in.
The good thing about prayer is that you can talk to God and ask him to help you or others or to just thank him for what you have be it peace, health or whatever.
It's about two way communication.
God does hear your prayers and sometimes they are answered. Depends on what you pray for.
Cheers.

Jon 1 you are correct..... If you put God to a survey test he probably knows that and will not participate...

God is not a magic trick who we can test and not test out....

Interested Observer, what is his name? I shall pray for him at mass?

peace.

reply to post by InterestedObserver

I don't understand. That article seems to say to me that praying for people doesn't work.

Hi. I respect you for giving such an honest, unpretentious reply.

I suspect it is one aspect in particular that has left you scratching your head, and it is indeed thought-provoking. At the risk of sounding facetious I hope you'll forgive me for suggesting a simple illustration. When your house is on fire, you phone the fire brigade. Does the phone-call have the power to put the fire out?..

I will only add that naturally this does not fully encompass all that prayer embodies, as true prayer must involve an attitude of worship, at the level of the heart.

God bless you.

PS My brother is in a not dissimilar state; I know the pain you feel, and will join you, and others, tonight in a prayer for your brother. If our prayers do not receive an obvious answer, do not give up. As you pray for him on and on, your love will increase, and that in itself will benefit your brother, and you, and bring glory to God.

[edit on 8/4/08 by pause4thought]

[edit on 8/4/08 by pause4thought]

to start things off, i'd like to say it can be "effective" in a psychological sense... that's been proven. people have found solace in prayer (doesn't mean that what they're praying to is real, though, cause then we'd have several conflicting accounts of what's true)

however, there is absolutely no evidence to suggest that prayer can have any other effect on reality past helping someone deal with something on a personal level


reply to post by JesusisTruth


you've repeatedly stated this and i've repeatedly asked you to prove it
you've yet to.

Originally posted by pause4thought
After reading a post on another thread claiming that research totally disproves the power of prayer it occurred to me that many people have probably been influenced by such derogatory assertions.

Here is a sober, reflective discussion of the outcomes of such research, which some may find very helpful:

www.ncf-jcn.org...

I hope this may restore some balance to this issue, which is a central tenet of many people's faith.

"Jesus was telling them a parable to show that at all times they ought to pray and not to lose heart..." (Luke 18:1)

[edit on 7/4/08 by pause4thought]

When prayer is used in accordance with Gods will and not contrary to it and not for pure materialistic means it is awesome to see prayer answered

for me i have seen prayer answered in seconds, minutes, hours,days,weeks,months and years. Absolutely mind blowing!! never been a feeling like it when this happens.

of course it hasn't happened when i have been asking for something i dont need, like a ferarri (extreme example i know)

im sorry but its a massive WOW even thinking about it.

Praise the Lord!

david

reply to post by drevill


You are 100% right, brother. I have told one or two people of a particular answer to prayer I once had, and they just can't take it in. It staggers me to this day. At the time I received it I knew 100% that the answer would come, because it related to a promise the Lord made in Scripture. However what happened simply defies all human imagination...

(Praise God!)

I didn't start the thread to prove prayer is effective. The aim was to help dispel the myth that people think some kind of scientific research can, or has disproved it. You can't prove a negative statement like 'Prayer is ineffective' anyway, because you'd have to include the prayers of millions of people and know all the outcomes to even attempt such a foolish enterprise.

Christians know about the effectiveness, as it is based on their Father's ability to keep His promises and to His awesome faithfulness!

Hello, its called random chance. in other situations where prayer seems to be answered,
its realy something that can be explained in a rational way. Its not nessecarily because
a god has granted your wish by a poof of magic.



So what about people who wished and prayed in ancient times, before your godbelief
was invented, when they believed each natural phenomena was one god. did your
god answer their prayers\wishes you think?

They certainly thought the gods at the time had answered their wish, for example if
they wished for a good harvest one year, and got it.



Its just blaming pure luck or natural things on a god, even though it can be rationally
explained. they just didnt know better. and you are doing the same here. you dont
know, so you blame god.



What about those who pray for cars, money and fame and get it? do you believe god
granted their prayer?

What about those who pray for bad things and get it? god? or is it maybe satan? can
he also answer prayers?

If we cant explain why something good happened, then it may just be because we
dont know... yet. but maybe one day we will know why ex: a girl suddenly
recovered from a bad disease noone thought you could recover from.

reply to post by Daniem


And it was random chance that when Jesus said in front of a whole crowd of people: "Lazarus come out!" it was immediately followed by a man walking out of the tomb still bound and wrapped head to foot in cloths after he had been dead for so many days there would have been a stench... (John 11:1-44)

Until and unless you believe, you will understandably think prayer is just empty and completely ineffective. I do not mock you. I once thought exactly as you do, my friend, and so did countless millions who now know how the Lord answers prayer. I would also have been disparaging. Don't close your mind, and you may yet discover that something more wonderful than you ever dreamt is, in fact, reality.

[edit on 8/4/08 by pause4thought]

reply to post by Daniem

Hello, its called random chance. in other situations where prayer seems to be answered,
its realy something that can be explained in a rational way. Its not nessecarily because
a god has granted your wish by a poof of magic.

Does this quote come from years of experience or is this Just a personal belief?

If you don't believe in God and don't pray, then how can you comment on if prayer works or not?

Does this quote come from years of experience or is this Just a personal belief?

If you don't believe in God and don't pray, then how can you comment on if prayer works or not?

1)
Its common knowledge, even though people doesnt believe in your god and prayers, good things and bad things will happen to them.
If they live a life praying, good things and bad things will also happen.
See? you dont need to pray, good things may still happen. But you cherry pick, you prayed for a million things, and some came true. Those you blame god for.



I was born into a christian family and country, and the church was nice enough to automaticly make me a member when i was born. As they do to 90% of the people here. But i dont know anyone that believes (maybe 1).
The ONLY ones i have met have been realy old people.

I went to gospel choire (most because of the free buns and lemonade) when i was little, but as i got older all was forgotten. never saw god in my daily life, never had a prayer answered by anyone as far as im concerned. and life goes on without him just fine. frankly i think its a waste of time. why bother with all that, were fine without him. (why believe when nothing happens?)

Then i of course got more educated and saw things as they are. (1000s of religions\gods exists) You could clarely see that they are just a manmade thing.


2)
Cause many times people who pray blame god when it comes true, when it has a logical explanation. and i have prayed, and it have come true sometimes, and other times not. but it can most always be explained why it came true or not.

Originally posted by pause4thought


And it was random chance that Jesus said in front of a whole crowd of people: "Lazarus arise", followed immediately by a man walking out of the tomb still bound and wrapped head to foot in cloths after he had been dead for so many days there would have been a stench... (John 11:1-44)

That is a nice story, from an old book. And i have read or heard about many similar stories, none of witch were proven true. I dont know who made these books, but its just people, like you and me. And its just people writing that god said this and that. Its not god saying anything.

So you trust those people to be telling the truth, and in your case the truth according to people who lived 2000 years ago. You know as well as me those were primitive times.

You believe because u think all the unexplained good things done is god, and it make you feel good to live like that (?)

Nowadays i think the belief is just an old tradition still going on. I do believe USA holds the faith stronger because of your position in the world, rich and "at the top" etc. So you believe god helped you. But i would bet that if you experanced bad times you would come to see that there is no god intervening; Death, destruction, hunger, sickness, war, injustice.

That, and if you need more evidence check out what scientists find out.