I'm no expert in all lot of what has been said here. But, reading it has led me to some questions and observations.

Way back when, Standard Oil was deemed too big and was forced to break up into smaller companies. Except, those companies were all still connected, it just wasn't obvious. It now seems that those companies are re-merging to form fewer and large companies. So, now we have big oil.

In the last few years, banks have been doing the merger shuffle. Just yesterday Citicorp (?) opted to purchase some big foreign bank. They are falling all over each other to buy each other up. So, our money is being controlled by fewer people in larger mega-banks. Doesn't that scare anyone?

It's not just big corporations that are the problem, it is big utilites, big media, big banks. big government.
Probably all run by the same few!!!


[Edited on 25-2-2004 by DontTreadOnMe]

Big companies are taking over and theres nothing we can do about it.
One day corporations will be the only government, but hopefully I want be alive when this happens.

Remember the robber barons at the end of the 19th and beginning of the 20th century? They were brought down. All of the scum who run's these giants will come down too, the beauty about nature and earth is what goes up must come down. The only problem the CEO's of these megacorps have is that they will die, mother nature sees to that and then their spoils will be spread to the 4 corners of the earth.

Originally posted by Agent47
My god when did we become so powerless? And when will we wake up? Do the American people even have the ability to be progressive and stop this dangerous trend?Furthermore and this is a question that sholud encite even more discussion than a black jesus....Is there any sort of good corporation at all? Now Im not a socialist or anarchist (actually right wing on most issues) but I think we need to break up all corporations and the sleaze of society. Either we conserve our country ore we lost it to money forever. Now what do the rest of you think?

[Edited on 24-2-2004 by Agent47]

[Edited on 24-2-2004 by Agent47]

[Edited on 24-2-2004 by Agent47]

[Edited on 24-2-2004 by Agent47]

[Edited on 24-2-2004 by Agent47]

[Edited on 24-2-2004 by Agent47]

[Edited on 24-2-2004 by Agent47]

Everyone who is not in the position of the major stock owners and multinational corporation owners are powerless. The acceptance of capitalism on a worldwide scale is greater, and trade, with a hoardable thing as money, was when people became powerless.

When will you wake up? You will only wake up when you are ready to let go of the system the worldwide capitalists and people have come to embrace. American citizens support capitalism, plain and simple, and we who are in the capitalistic countries likewise will not give it up. We depend on it, and you know that.

I believe that the american people can be progressive, not only in terms of scientific/technological/monetary terms, but in the way of going back to our roots as a one humanity, sharing, like a tribal nation, where we cooperate with the sharing of resources. Are we intelligent enough to actually put this type of system into place? Sure we are! If humans can go into space, we can set up a different system to operate on earth, beside of hoarding wealth in the few.

A sort of corporation that is good at all? Well, they are in it for profit, with the selling of their products. Do they want to share their wealth? No, they want to keep it for themselves, the select few, who give themselves comfort, and ignoring the poor. A corporation that gives equally among all would be a sort of good corporation.

Breaking up of corporations is trying to be accomplished by humanity out there. This you should see. The toppling of the WTC, if it was actually done by Al-Qaeda, was an attempt or the expression against the system that American Government upholds dearly. The mindset after this was: Us against them. We still have that mentality. America reacted greatly against this "terrorist" act, but did you really "see" what it symbolized? You are unable to let go of the system, plain and simple.

Breaking the system we are currently in now is almost an impossible task, but there are groups of people out there that are trying to get their message across. And when they try to do it, the people only react to protect the system they depend on, hence, war on terrorism.

You can't break the corporation movement without a breaking of barriers between people as one. Once humanity accepts their fate as one, then something can be done to change the movement of the present system.

Originally posted by GrndLkNatv
Remember the robber barons at the end of the 19th and beginning of the 20th century? They were brought down. All of the scum who run's these giants will come down too, the beauty about nature and earth is what goes up must come down. The only problem the CEO's of these megacorps have is that they will die, mother nature sees to that and then their spoils will be spread to the 4 corners of the earth.

~~~~

point taken...

but also, the temporary 'head' of these corps is a 'disposable commodity'....IT IS the Corporation ENTITY
that will/must survive & prosper!!

these corps/mega corps are still only servents to the
Political-Institutional-Government [P.I.G.]
aka Beast!!!
thses corps. given life in the legal sense by the PIG Beast...fufill their obligation to the master by being
a type of Sector Boss....just one level below PIG in the
heirarchy of Control of the Masses

Ya'll are yelling FIRE when the Barns' about to collapse...too late to do anything but CYA

Originally posted by IMMORTAL
Breaking up of corporations is trying to be accomplished by humanity out there. This you should see. The toppling of the WTC, if it was actually done by Al-Qaeda, was an attempt or the expression against the system that American Government upholds dearly. The mindset after this was: Us against them. We still have that mentality. America reacted greatly against this "terrorist" act, but did you really "see" what it symbolized? You are unable to let go of the system, plain and simple.

system.

Could you elaborate on this? Im not saying your offensive or anything but your post answered a lot of questions and yet I still dont see the link to how AL Quaida is actually helping those of us who want our freedoms from corporations. I see the attack on the WTC more of an attack on US strength not on our refusal to let go of a capitalist system. And that leads me to my next point, a lot of people have argued for a end to capitalism but with the exception of a few no one has offered a viable proven historical alternative.

Side Note: Has anyone noticed how although Bell was supposedly supposed to be demolished years ago all of its components are today all under the banner of SBC, I live in San Antonio (There Headquarters) and they have at least 5 blocks of the city dedicated to office buildings, a little to big if you ask me for a company that should only be dealing with the southwest but we all know that SBC has pretty much become the head of a new Bell conglomeration.

Originally posted by Eternal
Big companies are taking over and theres nothing we can do about it.
One day corporations will be the only government, but hopefully I want be alive when this happens.

Why that day will be horrible!

[Edited on 25-2-2004 by Agent47]

Originally posted by Agent47
Could you elaborate on this? Im not saying your offensive or anything but your post answered a lot of questions and yet I still dont see the link to how AL Quaida is actually helping those of us who want our freedoms from corporations. I see the attack on the WTC more of an attack on US strength not on our refusal to let go of a capitalist system.

The strength of the US is exactly corporations and the power they wield with the capital they have. If you want to somehow limit the proliferation of corporations to merge, you are effectively saying you want to topple the very system America is based on. Therefore, the attacks on the WTC was an attack on the very system of coporate empiriliasm.

I want to emphasize that the attacks on the WTC was an expression, take it as an example. You want to limit these corporations and be free from them. So, the attacks on WTC, and the subsequent reaction from the U.S Government show you just how much America protects the corporation, and the system they rely upon. It would be very difficult, taking the attacks on the WTC as an example, to even try to change the system.

The United States is one large corporation.

There are many people, I guess, or groups of people who have banded together to try to change the system for the better. We know what happens to them. They get arrested by the FBI as communists, and imprisoned for life.

Changing corporate empirialism is trying to change the very system America is based on, i.e. the American Dream.

Originally posted by IMMORTAL

The strength of the US is exactly corporations and the power they wield with the capital they have. If you want to somehow limit the proliferation of corporations to merge, you are effectively saying you want to topple the very system America is based on. Therefore, the attacks on the WTC was an attack on the very system of coporate empiriliasm.

I want to emphasize that the attacks on the WTC was an expression, take it as an example. You want to limit these corporations and be free from them. So, the attacks on WTC, and the subsequent reaction from the U.S Government show you just how much America protects the corporation, and the system they rely upon. It would be very difficult, taking the attacks on the WTC as an example, to even try to change the system.

The United States is one large corporation.

I'd have to agree if we were talking about your original mega corps like standard oil, bell and well hell microsoft. But I disagreee with you because corporations are multinational today and well out of the range of American government to control them. I think this problem isnt solely the fault of America but Corporations everywhere because as I argued earlier, Corporations like DeBiers are from S.Africa and immune to anti trust violations. This Mega Corps are coming out everywhere not just here and thats whats really scary. America will not be at the helm of a megacorporation world but rather the WTO backed by Multinational Corporations like GE, and Wackenhut.

Hey the more I think about it, the FCCs ability to smack down vulgarity like Howard Stern is in a way some hope for punishing corporations, Mass Media controls so much of the world as it is, I think its positive that we beef up the FCC , next how bout the anti trust laws on the books.

However, you must remember that privitization laws are lagging behind technology...by a lot. Advertising is becoming more pervasive. While the FCC can control the content of said advertising, they can't control the ammount we see.

DE

So even though the FCC can control the message they cant stop the flow and thats what is so dangerous your saying?

That is a danger factor. For instance, billboards cannot be over a certain size by law, but the companies rent them, just like they rent airtime on television in which to broadcast their message. TV stations put on as must as they can before people get angry, or half hour shows turn into twenty minutes of programming and forty minutes of hocking total crap. The shopping channel also provides an excellent example of the point- it is all advertising, all the time.

DE

Anyone from overseas feel free to answer, compared to American television, how much of your programming is taken up by commercials or advertising.

Originally posted by Agent47
So even though the FCC can control the message they cant stop the flow and thats what is so dangerous your saying?

The federal part in the term "FCC" is the part I do not like...the idea that a federal agency can control what goes on t.v. should be the most important factor in seeing just how easily the can spread their propaganda.

The amount of advertising doesnt worry me nearly as much as who gets to control the message that is being sent out to all the unsuspecting peole.

[Edited on 26-2-2004 by McGotti]

Originally posted by McGotti

Originally posted by Agent47
So even though the FCC can control the message they cant stop the flow and thats what is so dangerous your saying?

The federal part in the term "FCC" is the part I do not like...the idea that a federal agency can control what goes on t.v. should be the most important factor in seeing just how easily the can spread their propaganda.

The amount of advertising doesnt worry me nearly as much as who gets to control the message that is being sent out through out all the unsuspecting peole.

Well if the government shouldnt be able to protect us from the crap of mass media then who will, I understand your fear of censorship, but more than likely that will slowly become a role of Big Corporations as the NWO takes over, and Im serious, if the government shouldnt be able to stop them, then who should.

Back to Kobyashi Maru, eh? We are put in a place wehere we have the choice of letting a government we don't trust 'protect' us, or to go it alone and give the yet more evil corporate bodies more room to manuever in.

DE

Yes and I see that point and it is a hard one to decide.."no government for control or yes to govenment control"

Well I guess that boils down to how the people in the FCC are choosen,are they simply choosen by the current administration or are they elected by the american citizens?{lol ..I know they are not elected by the citizens}

To say if you would rather have the govenment or corps controll the message maybe considered one in the same..you think?



[Edited on 26-2-2004 by McGotti]

Originally posted by McGotti
Yes and I see that point and it is a hard one to decide.."no government for control or yes to govenment control"

Well I guess that boils down to how the people in the FCC are choosen,are they simply choosen by the current administration or are they elected by the american citizens?{lol ..I know they are not elected by the citizens}

To say if you would rather have the govenment or corps controll the message maybe considered one in the same..you think?



[Edited on 26-2-2004 by McGotti]

Why cant we have control over the FCC because the "people" are supposed to be the ones clamoring for a clensing of the air waves. And another thing I have been thinking about, how does the Federal Reserve and World Bank factor into this slip into a world run by megacorporations and the WTO, the Federal Reserve Board is supposedly supposed to be able to be controlled by the American People but I think we dont realize this because Mass Media downplays that angle.

I think the mass media is supporting the censorship of its shows...

There has been alot of media attention over the "super bowl boob" but who really is doing the complaining??

I for one do not think it was the majority of the american people that are complaining..I believe it is a select few that have alot of leverage with the govenment and media that have pushed this issue as far as it has gone.