Come on people this is more important than a black Jesus. No offense to Jesus whether he is black or not.

Not all corporations are big enough to be considered megacorps. However, those that are (Walmart, Fed-Boeing, etc) are a real threat to things. They virtually circumvent every border on the planet, they control huge chunks of the economy and wield vast political influence. They can hire private security (and, to be frank, that's another area that needs consideration) in vast numbers, and lean really hard on other bussinesses. It's safe to call them a danger to freedom when they wield that much clout.

DE

Originally posted by DeusEx
Not all corporations are big enough to be considered megacorps. However, those that are (Walmart, Fed-Boeing, etc) are a real threat to things. They virtually circumvent every border on the planet, they control huge chunks of the economy and wield vast political influence. They can hire private security (and, to be frank, that's another area that needs consideration) in vast numbers, and lean really hard on other bussinesses. It's safe to call them a danger to freedom when they wield that much clout.

DE

I hadnt even thought of there private security yet. Armed better than some professional armies that is a threat some people dont even know exist. I see your name is Deus Ex, I dont want to be dramatic but I see the day when we all become victims of a Deus Ex world where the wealthy few control 99 percent of the world. Do you people realize that over 75 percent of Television is controlled by a select few individuals. Add on to this the fact very few people read news anymore, the ignorant masses are only growing and we are giving up our freedoms. Its not gonna be an overnight thing but just look at it, Woodrow Wilson kicks big business ass in the 1910s and yet 90 years later they are a hundred times stronger and with a tenth of the outcry against them. Things are gonna slowly trade from the hands of governments into corporations. This is more important than anything that we realize this.

Originally posted by DeusEx
It's safe to call them a danger to freedom when they wield that much clout.

DE

Well then who should end it?

I'll be the first to admit I'm a cyberpunk reader. I fear the corporate takeover that seems inveitable. It'll be a world where we're not citizens, but consumers.

In Shadowrun, there was an incident where Seretech Inc. was attacked by ecoterrorists. The supreme court gave a verdict that enabled corporations to use lethal force in protection of its employees and property. That's a day I fear, when corporations and megacorporations have their own private armies.

DE

Originally posted by Agent47

Well then who should end it?

Well, take where wal-mart is now, and back it off some. The problem is that there is no way to really control it.

DE

Originally posted by DeusEx

Originally posted by Agent47

Well then who should end it?

Well, take where wal-mart is now, and back it off some. The problem is that there is no way to really control it.

DE

Is that because the national government is too weak break up a monopoly or is it because they are multinational corporations. And furthermore, are corporations that started in America bearing any sort of loyalty to the home country or are they purely driven by profit. It seems that the worlds number one food providers (McDonalds) gas (Texaco/Exxon) appliances/military hardware (General Electric) and other commodities are all American born. Shouldnt we be able to stop them in some way. And furthermore Im gonna start reading more cyber punk because I have forgotten that feeling Deus Ex gave me when I bought it at a half price book years ago. And another thing, why are we spending over three days to discuss whether jesus was black or white (his message is the only important thing either way) and yet this post is overlooked. Come on there are hordes of intelligent people here, lets start identifying more problems and threats to our way of life.

And for anyone else reading this feel free to jump on in. I myself wonder if anyone has an idea about the time frame before this world is just a pawn of the WTO and other entities like it.

Get your RATS points and get them quick, son. The problem is that when when a corporation reaches the multinational level, it becomes subject to the laws in multiple jurisdictions. Any objections or too much pushing on the part of the "home country", and the corporation can literally just up and leave. It would cost them, but they can also put a HUGE dent in an economy. Imagine if Texaco jsut upped, left and went to Europe or Russia. There would be hundreds of thousands of jobs lost, and a huge shortage of petro products in the States. Canadian companies could sweep down, lowering its prices and undercutting the competition in order to grab a huge market share.

In addition, as soon as a company hits multinational status, it can start making money hand over fist by exploiting local peoples to create their products, as well as tapping new markets.

PS- William Gibson's Neuromancer, William C. Dietz's Bodyguard and any Shadowrun book by Mel Odom are excellent examples of cyberpunk.

DE

Originally posted by DeusEx
Get your RATS points and get them quick, son. The problem is that when when a corporation reaches the multinational level, it becomes subject to the laws in multiple jurisdictions. Any objections or too much pushing on the part of the "home country", and the corporation can literally just up and leave. It would cost them, but they can also put a HUGE dent in an economy. Imagine if Texaco jsut upped, left and went to Europe or Russia. There would be hundreds of thousands of jobs lost, and a huge shortage of petro products in the States. Canadian companies could sweep down, lowering its prices and undercutting the competition in order to grab a huge market share.

In addition, as soon as a company hits multinational status, it can start making money hand over fist by exploiting local peoples to create their products, as well as tapping new markets.

PS- William Gibson's Neuromancer, William C. Dietz's Bodyguard and any Shadowrun book by Mel Odom are excellent examples of cyberpunk.

DE

Thanks for the suggestions. Yeah Im sorry it appears Im just trying to get my topic replied to. I really think this is an important topic though but some extra RATS points arent all that bad. But I dont want to keep you if you think weve said all there is to say about this topic.

Eh, I could go on like this forever. We haven't scratched the surface- privatized EMT, police, security, ect. MEthinks that there's too much corporate interest in the day to day running of modern America. What do you all think?

DE

DE Your asking you as in other people than me right?+

Doesn't matter. I want to see this post play out to the best of its abilities. It's quite a good one.

DE

This is a good thread....I hardly know where to begin...

Ill just start with commie-mart{everything sold by wal-mart seems to come from china}

What can we do to stop them from growing even more??? Thats a hard question because you have to either find something criminal or the people as a society need to change their view on what exactly commie-mart means for our future.

Honestly..im not sure if their is a way out of the commie-mart future.....but we should at least try to control their political influence.Campaign contobutions from big corps. is killing what we have known as freedom..instead of the peoples needs being meet,its obvious that its only the corps. needs that the government is worried about.

Originally posted by McGotti
This is a good thread....I hardly know where to begin...

Ill just start with commie-mart{everything sold by wal-mart seems to come from china}

What can we do to stop them from growing even more??? Thats a hard question because you have to either find something criminal or the people as a society need to change their view on what exactly commie-mart means for our future.

Honestly..im not sure if their is a way out of the commie-mart future.....but we should at least try to control their political influence.Campaign contobutions from big corps. is killing what we have known as freedom..instead of the peoples needs being meet,its obvious that its only the corps. needs that the government is worried about.

Well I do agree that 99 percent of things Wal Mart sells are of chinese origin but thats only cause the labor is so cheap there. Its not like the Peoples Republic of China is actually benefitting from it more than Wal-Mart. I do think you could slap wal mart around if you put sanctions on free trade and tried to force it to employ more Americans. I also think you could accuse it of breaking anti trust laws seeing as it totally shuts out private business and smaller competitors like KMart.

And about campaign contributions. Who are they contributing to specifically or does it not make one shread of difference? And what about the morals we talked about earlier. The progressive movement of the turn of the century (back by conservatives if you really think about it) aimed not only to break up trusts but to reform the squalid look of society. We are light years away from poor drunk slums but I think all the porno (and yes I cant be a hypocrite and say I dont look at it) and music is killing our society. Things need to change before they get any brighter.

Also what are the top three most influential corporations on the planet. Or most dangerous you could say.

but I think all the porno (and yes I cant be a hypocrite and say I dont look at it) and music is killing our society.

Since when did human sexuality and music ever have any real lasting negative effects on our society.....I think that stopping porno and music would make us more like nazi germany....So who do you think should judge which music and "videos" we get to watch???

Oh and by the way...WAL-mart doesnt even sell a playboy and all their music is censored.So the opposite effect seems to be the case when freedom of music and video is absent.....you wind up with a wal-society where a few people in power get to choose what you can buy because there are fewer and fewer choices to which you can shop at.

a corporation can never be progressive in an ethical sense becuase they exist soley to establish profit and the only was to become economically viable is by employing overtly immoral tactics. the exploitation of cheap labour, erosion of union rights and destruction of any competition are widespread.

western economics is centered on the idea of rich companies becoming dominant and the rest hit the wall. without substantial changes to the economic structure (which i wont go into because i'll be called an idealistic commie again) i dont see how things can change.

someone also mentioned that they can see a time when major corporations own 99% of the worlds wealth. if you consider that in most western societies about the top 3% own 95% of wealth and in turn the developed west owns about the same percentage of the worlds wealth, we're already well on the way.

Remember what the NSF leader said in DeusEx about taxes? That's also an issue, not to mention privatization of other services. How long will it be until we see DocWagon/CrashCart style medical services, or Lone Star/Knight Errant police services taking over from publically funded cops?

It occurs to me that not everyone knows about these abstract references to SR. DocWagon and CrashCart are competiting firms which offer a range of emergency medical services for a hefty fee, up to and including major surgery, "emergency rescues" by High Threat Response Teams, and hospitalization. Now imagine several of these firms competiting- driving state funded medical services into a note in history books. They offer better services for cheaper and less crap to put up with, but also only to those who could pay. The poor would suffer, save for those that had access to street doctors of questionable intergrity and moral character.

Ditto for policing- KE and the Star are fictional security firms which compete for large-scale contracts. It's already happening to a degree as firm like Brinks and Wackenhut provide security to a number of companies. The removal of government control is becoming an issue where we don't get a choice in which is a lesser evil- the government or the corporations which bow only to the almighty dollar.

DE