God is a Hypocrite

Then I'm sailing to the place that says 'leave all your hopes behind' I consume both marlbororos and alcholol.

Originally posted by lordtyp0
Something that's always bothered me about the Eden story (Seems like it fits with the hypocrisy motif, if not my apologies).

Many say "God knows everything, he knows what we will do before we do it but lets us do it anyway" or something similar thus: keeping freedom of will consistent with the omniscience.

Here's whats bugged me: Original sin.

According to the above: God would have known before he built Eden that Adam and Eve would have 'eaten form the tree'. He would have also have known that even with a commandment of 'No-no, bad *swats with newspaper*' that: This event would have happened.

Thus it could be inferred it was a setup. God would have known that the path would be set in motion.. was the whole crucification scene a sort of buyers remorse? He would have known that was coming too... right?

He made Adam and Eve knowing how it would turn out and how the next time span would progress-so he knew about Jesus on the Cross at that time.

Had he not made the order to not eat the fruit-doesn't that mean he could have kept the events that came away-without endangering freedom of choice?

Yes he would have known. It was part of the plan. Eve ate the fruit knowing she was breaking Gods law. But she also knew that by not eating it they could not keep the higher law, which was multiplying and replenishing the earth (having children). They were put in the garden of eden, but they were not mortal until they ate the fruit. And so they ate and got kicked out of the garden of eden. Why did he let it happen? He gave us free agency... to make our own choices. As far as Im concerned Eve was a smart woman. Because if she had not eaten the fruit you and I would not be having this conversation... and no one would have been born.

Now his Son, Jesus was chosen to come to earth before we came here... to become our "Savior" because he was the only one who could. He was perfect. Of course God could have saved Jesus, heck Jesus could have saved himself, he was God's son of course. Before he was crucified there was no way for us to be able to repent of our sins. Jesus paved the way for us.. by doing this we now have the chance to go back to heaven and live with God, where we used to live before coming to earth.

Now as for my understanding of Lucifer aka Satan. He was the "son of the morning", but he fell from heaven and took one third of the hosts of heaven with him... Why was he kicked out? Because he wanted to be our savior... BUT... the difference with his plan was that he wanted us all to come to earth and have no free agency... could you imagine a world where you had no choice but to do what you are told... had to do everything that was right? heck no.... I wasnt for that plan. Lucifer also wanted the glory to be his not God's. So Jesus was sent. So you and I and everyone else that has ever lived on this earth chose Jesus and God's plan, because your here on earth (and those that have passed on as well). Now for Satan and the third that got kicked out, they will never have a chance to have a mortal body so.... in order for us to be tested and tried (without memory of our life before earth life) Satan was let loose until the Second Coming.

Well the above is my belief. Make of it what you will. I know I will get alot of backlash but I don't care.

As for the OPs thread "God is a hypocrite?" hmmm somehow I dont think anything I say could sway your mind to think otherwise.. and that would not be my intention... I feel though that there needs to be alot of study and thought and research into this (because your title reads like its a statement not a question) before you reach any conclusion.

I do think the Bible is not as correct as it should be... man's interpretation and changes has not made it as clear as it probably was back in Moses or even Jesus's time. It's unfortunate that it has been changed, and I think changed to suit man not God.

Peace out...

What a flush ms wanderer. Reading your reply three times brought some insight. I appreciate and consider all you posts.
Thank you
John
Free agency. Hmmm. Sounds like the hurting new car salesman. I cannot even begin to delve into the premise of last post. It is out of my league.

[edit on 9-4-2008 by jpm1602]

Originally posted by Equinox99
God is a parent, and like all parents they are "hypocrites".

I have been struggling with "God is a dead-beat dad" .
(makes the kids and then leaves them alone without support)

Ever since I saw pictures of some little children - around four years old - whose dead bodies had washed ashore from the big tsunami a few years back. Their little bodies were suffed full of sand. Their mouths (and lungs) were full of it. Their eyes and ears caked with it. These little children died in terror and in pain.

I understand God not stepping in to interrupt human free will and therefore some people here suffer by their fellow mankind. However, this was a disaster that could have bene averted by God. But he let these children die in complete terror and agony.

Does a good father do that to his children?
I wouldn't do that to my daughter.

I have heard of tough love .. but this???

I'm still having a hard time with it.

reply to post by Core90


You make a good point.
I forgot about that one.
This is when David disobeyed God by having a census made, basicly to find out how many troops he could possibly expect to be available for war.
David did not have the proper amount of trust in God, to win a war and went to a faithless way to determine his future actions.
God punished David by reducing the population of his kingdom.
Who knows exacty how all of this came down and if it really happened or if it was added to make a story to illustrate a point.
But God did show some compasion by giving David some options.
Evil things exist on this planet and everyone is subject to constant threat, just by living.
For all we know the number of people who died on this occasion would have been less than would have died as a result of the war that David would have gone to if he was not restrained by God's hand.


[edit on 9-4-2008 by jmdewey60]

No I am not discounting the church, I am discounting the modern day churches who do nothing better then to tell their followers that they will be going to hell because they are human beings. Do not get me wrong, there are still churches out there that are great with great foundations but they are a minority.

Originally posted by Equinox99
God is a parent, and like all parents they are "hypocrites". My father told me I was not allowed to smoke, yet he smokes. My father told me not to drink alcohol and yet he consumes alcohol, and so on. The reason he told me these things is to protect me from doing something dumb. Yet I still have enough freewill to go behind his back and drink and smoke. It is the same concept.

Parents can be hypocritical because they've made mistakes, and they still do. You're absolutely right that parents are hypocrites.


But parents are HUMAN. They're fallible. Mortal. God is PERFECT(at least, according to the Bible); omnipotent, infallible. So how can an infallible being be... hypocritical?

In other words: If it's "do as I say, and not as I do", then what chance do we have to live up to it, if God himself can't hold up to his own standards(and if we could, then would that make us BETTER than him?)?

I think if god really did not want us to go to hell he would have made it just a little easier for us to believe in and follow him with the minds he created us with. I mean if he truly wanted us to believe in him why did he make the bible so hard to understand with so many loopholes?

Someone should start a topic do you believe in god. I mean anyone with an IQ higher than a banana should conclude that it's not very likely.

1. What did people before Christianity believe in? Did god send them to hell?

2. Would people believe in god if they weren't afraid of dying?

3. The bible could of been made up by a random writer of that age.

reply to post by Fableguy


1. People before Christianity believed in a Savior, who was God.
We have a better understanding, now, of how this salvation will affect us, not just in this life, but in the world to come.
If Hell is thought of as being a place where the dead are, then yes, those who followed God before Jesus died, were in hell.
They are not there now, so in a way, they are better off than we are.
They rose with Jesus and went up to heaven with him.
2. Some people would believe in God, even without a guarantee of being brought back to life. I know an example firsthand. A lady I was talking to in a religion class who said she was raised as a Jew and had never heard of a resurrection.
3. The Bible was written over a long period of time and could not have been written by one person.

Folks, it's really very simple: God did not create Man.

Man created a god...

It started, first, as multiple gods, then evolved into one god, and this concept has been used generation after generation by unscrupulous people in order to exert control over the hapless 'believers'....

reply to post by weedwhacker


What you say would be true if it was possible to creat a world-wide universal religion where you would have every person forced to follow a single god.
Then you would have ultimate control of the people.
There are people trying to do that.
I rebel against it and think I can invent my own god and worship it, if I want to.
That is not what I do in practice, but I want the freedom to do that.
If I have that power, no man has power over me.
I believe I am obligated, as an American to be prepaired to take up arms to support that right, that is in the Constitution.

Originally posted by Zaimless
Wouldn't God be a hypocrite if he told us not to certain things and then he goes ahead and does them? Aren't we suppose to be loving all the time? Really he does a ton of killing in the bible. We aren't suppose to do that are we?? And what about adultery? What he did with Mary, taking her innocence all all??

He has to be beyond a murder. He let's people die, and further more he burns them in hell for all eternity... Isn't that a little sadistic? I wouldn't do that to my children would you? Does that mean I have a more loving and forgiving soul than God? Doesn't God have to love bigger than me?

The bible says that their will be an anti-Christ religion and that it shall call itself by his name. Isn't Christianity one of the largest religions in the world?

Why is it ok for God to do evil and not the rest of us??? Honestly now...

I would like to ask some questions.. Ok?

1. Does this really have to do with God or you?
2. I don't know why, but sweetie, I get a feeling that someone close to you is hurting you or know something that could get you hurt?
3. I will also bet you have been praying diligently and are working hard at being the christian your being told to be in your religious circle. Are you thinking and feeling like your prayers are not being heard and the behavior your asking to be stopped or to have stopped isn't?
(Please, remember, it's not your fault. You have the right to say no, and these people will say anything to get their way. .LIE>Blackmail, Manipulate.. LOOK THESE UP> so you know what they mean.
4. I also get a feeling that you don't know where to turn, because the person hurting you or that you have knoweledge of is close in your religious circle?
5. Lastly, if you are a minor person, and live in the USA, please find a local chapter of CAPA.. if your an adult, please get a therapist. Counseler, if your a minor.. talk to a counsler at school. their those that can and will help.
If you wnat help, it will come. just do the footwork
[[[[]]]]]
000

reply to post by sawmaw


Or, if you are an English teacher, please make sure your students know the difference between pronouns, and common contractions.

Also, let's take time to distinguish the different homonyms, 'there', 'their' and 'they're'.

I know it may be in 'vogue' today, when texting, to abbreviate. But if you write, and want to be taken seriously, then you need to know how to spell. Gosh, there are computer programs to do it for you!

For the record....'your' is a pronoun. 'you're' is a contraction, composed of two words....'you' and 'are'...a pronoun and verb, blended together.

Only takes a few extra keystrokes to add the apostrophe, and the 'e' at the end, yet it looks so much better. While we're at it, let's stop the unnecessary apostrophes as well. AN apostrophe does not a plural make...

reply to post by weedwhacker


Please try to stay on subject...

This thread is called "God is a Hypocrite" not "The English Language: How to spell and correct Bad Grammar".
It is not very nice to criticize someones language/writing skills. For all you know English could be their second language. All you did was criticize someone. You didn't even comment on what they said, I thought this was a "no no" on ATS??? Or am I mistaken?

I found it to be very "Derogatory" to say the least...

what people don't understand is that Sin is a crime, there are consequences. for example the bible says that if we sow corruption we'll reap corruption or if we sow righteousness we'll reap righteousness. If you are a thief eventually you'll get caught, that is the consequence. If you murder someone there is a consequence, the concept is the same in the kingdom of God, if you sin there is a consequence. Ever hear the phrase you reap what you sow? if you sow sexual immorality your going to reap corruption, its the reason that std's are out of control now days. When david sinned God had to Judge him, and since David was a prophet and king over isreal. Back in those days judgement was different. We should be lucky that we're not dealth with so harshly in this time, but there will come a time when God will deal harshly with man again because of their Sin and their wickedness.


Keeper

reply to post by Zaimless


Yes God is a hypocrite if you define him in such terms. Obviously if creation has an absolute conscious creator then it has obviously divided itself up in fragments such as ourselves in order to NOT KNOW everything. The mysterious is what makes life worth living and gives us imagination. If one has infinite wisdom, and every thing and every idea comes from the same ONE, then what would the point be?? The real question is whether God actually has limits? Did God have to create the multiverse in order to exist?

Originally posted by Core90
...In my mind, a God ...

"My ways are not your ways, and my thoughts not your thoughts."

For anyone following this trail, you may find what I have to say interesting or not. The whole thing in not a personal matter to me at all. In fact MOST of what I say is to get others thinking, not blindly following some religious group and their book. I often bring up many sayings from the bible (bibles) because I am curious what others really think. And I must say, egotistically, to see how lost some are.


I really liked the part where it was said about the whole free will thing, and here's the rule book for your free will. Really think about that one, it is too funny.


The Mormons believe that Adam and Eve had to fall because if they hadn't of, well then they wouldn't have know lust. And then none of us would be here would we?? I thought breeding was an animal instinct and had nothing to do with sin, arn't we all animals?


So many questions when it comes to God and religion, I really like talking about all of this. I appriciate every single person that responds and allowing me to grow even further as a human.

You are all great... May God Bless You


sorry had to do that....

When I first read the Bible, I was like, WTF? Then on reflecting on it, I was like, Im going to figure out how to read this and understand it to its core. Im not of any dogmatic faith, I believe in only god, anything this reality has to say about god or anything else for that matter is distorted by man in my opinion.

So years go by and ive read it a bunch of times, and somehow along the way, I realized all of this physical reality stuff, is hypothetical, and not even really real, and this is why god seems so wacky in the bible, because he knows this is just a school/game.

Think about it, if you create a video game, sometimes you just kill off some characters to change the scene or to win or get an advantage, and sure there may be a sense of loss in the game to the avatars, but in REALITY, no one got hurt, and no one is complaining. All the avatars players are eternal and suffer not the slightest.

I think when we come to, and wake up, we will realize how infinitely old we really are, and what this game/school is all about. The trick is, if you know this, and still disregard the rules of the game, it is sin because its just like insider trading or cheating. just like the rules in an online game, there are firewalls and such to make sure no one uses GOD mode, or cheat codes.
Also, if you truly do know of your eternal self, you will have all the patience in the world to accomplish what you wish to accomplish without breaking the golden rule.

I think do unto others covers all of gods laws not to mention should be common sense.

I posted this, just because I see so many people arguing over what is what, god is this god is that, its pretty high and mighty of a man down here in the limitations of the 3-d to make a judgment about his/her source of creation in a condescending sense.
I know youre thinking, my source of creation and the god spoken of in the bible are not the same things, but really, God IS every religion, God is every science, God is everyone. there is nothing outside of God, this all takes place within it, and if we really think we are up to the challenge, we will find a way to make all dogmas and sciences fit together perfectly without dissent or disrespect for the lower or higher hierarchies of belief or thought, and humbly find a way to approach the lost, blind or over confident.

God is a hypocrite on purpose so you'll figure things out silly!
"He who speaks does not know, he who knows does not speak"