More raids on Texas polygamy sect

More raids on Texas polygamy sect

news.bbc.co.uk

Texas authorities have continued raids on a ranch belonging to a breakaway Mormon sect, removing a total of almost 200 women and children since Thursday.

Police officers first raided the ranch after reports that a 16-year-old girl was physically and sexually abused.

Detectives are looking for evidence of a marriage between the girl and a 50-year-old man. She is thought to have had a child when she was 15.

The sect is led by polygamist Warren Jeffs, jailed as an accomplice to rape.

(visit the link for the full news article)


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US authorities have removed almost 200 women and children from the ranch of a sect in Texas as part of a child abuse investigation.

i am browsing the bbc news site and to my supprise i find this story,

and shockingly enough its not Muslims in the Lime light this time but a church group where a teenager was forced to marry a 50 year old, a teanager was forced to marry her cousin and other cases of Sexual abuses.

even their leader is being tried for sexual abuse

we mostly see topics about how Muslims do this but how many news sources will pull this out the woodworks?

news.bbc.co.uk
(visit the link for the full news article)

Every one knows that child molestation and sexual abuses are worse than criminal.Having said that,what is the problem with polygamy? It's been said that it is a christian ethic,yet the only reference to taking only one spouse is :"a deacon should be the husband to one wife" What would be the problem with a woman having three or more husbands or a man having three or more wives?
The u.s.government denied one of thier greatest tennants.The seperation of church and state.When they outlawed polygamy even though the religous sect of the mormons accepted mulitple marriages.
The old testament is replete with multiple marriages,and was a common practice for centuries after the birth of christ.

Someone tell me what is the physical harm in multiple marriages between consenting adults?

i am supprised at the lack of attention to this topic

if this was vice versa it would be sworming with people condeming and judging the whole because of their actions.

I agree.....

People here post about everything and I just can't believe more folks aren't jumping aboard with opinions. My conspiratorial nature can imagine several scenarios here, but for me one of the most disturbing is the fact that at least three US presidents have hailed from the state of Texas since this has been going on....you can't tell me the Gov. of a state doesn't get wind about these things going on in his neck of the woods. That fact alone raises many questions....

reply to post by bodrul


There is more to this story than your newspapers are letting on. I' ll give you a few clues. The ranch is worth quite a bit of money and the cultist spent even more money and sweat developing the land. A few months ago someone tried bye the ranch but the offer was shunned. The rich oil men in the area have been spying on the ranch for years using drones. Threats have been made against the men of the ranch. The Mormons and the former mormons have a hate hate relationship with the southern babtists. As soon as the cult moved in laws were changed specifically to make some of the relationships illegal. The law enforcement had an informant who worked there for five years on the ranch but the law went in on a flimsy hoax perpetrated one Ms. Swinton of Colorado Spring, Colorado (home of the CIA and many other military industrial types). They found one or two pregant teenagers the age of the sperm donors is unknown. They took 437 children mostly young children away . They were taken into state custody on babtist church busses. They took a child from a divorced unattached mother. They have separated babies from nursing mothers and some of those babies are now in the hospital because of dehydration. Two of the toddlers in CPS care are missing now. In 2004 184 children died in the care of Texas CPS to date the cult has not killed a single child. Waco style tyranny is going on at this moment in Texas.

reply to post by bodrul

Amen to that, it's sad times we live in.

It seems that more and more stories of depravity are popping up these last few eeks

The honour killing, the Austrian cellar prisoners and now more of this. I'm just wondering what's next on the list on things to sicken me and blight humanity as a whole.

reply to post by eradown


Can you please provide some evidence to back up these claims. Like articles, news stories, something.

Thanks

Wether or not there were illegal activities happening in this community, what we have seen here should be a shock to all freedom loving people.

There is illegal activity that happens here in my town. Should the government be able to swoop in like the Gestapo, round everyone up for DNA testing, and seperate all the men women and children?

There is no proof of any criminal wrongdoing. No arrest warrants were issued, no grand jury indictments were made. In fact, the supposed allegation that sparked all of this activity might very well have been fabricated since they are now admitting that there is no such 15 year-old victim, but are instead relying on the say so of someone who worked there. Ever heard of disgruntled employee? Or even that they are just using this person to flat out lie so that the agenda can be carried out under the guise of at least bare minimal justification?

Look, I don't know much about the Mormons, I don't know where I stand on polygamy, but I can tell you that this whole thing stinks to high heaven. If you support what is happening here, I hope that they come to your town next, break up your family, and send you away for re-education.

reply to post by greeneyedleo


deseretnews.com...

This one deals with the two missing toddlers.


www.sltrib.com...

This a link about the hospitalized kids.



www.captivefdlschildren.org

The groups websight.


The story about the hoaxer.

www.rockymountainnews.com...

I will put up some more links later.

I don't know about that but if some old guy tried fooling around with my underaged daughter he better hope the lord has his soul cause his ass would be mine,I think they are a bunch of freaks and I'm glad they tore their den of eniquities down

Good, you're next.

Your beliefs mean nothing either.

[edit on 4/28/0808 by jackinthebox]

Originally posted by Oldtimer2
I don't know about that but if some old guy tried fooling around with my underaged daughter he better hope the lord has his soul cause his ass would be mine,I think they are a bunch of freaks and I'm glad they tore their den of eniquities down

I think most people would seek to break the legs of anyone abusing their children, that's a natural and protective reaction for most of us.

As for them being freaks, on what do you base that assumption? Maybe they don't fit in with most peoples idea of the norm but is that because we have been indoctrinated into thinking what is normal and what isn't? what abaout gays, are they freaks too? what about Hindus, Buddhists, Jews, Catholicsetc? Freaks, the lot of em?
I prefer to leave them to their own beliefs and way of life. I don't necessarily agree with them but who am I to tell them how to live.

So far all I have seen is the "official" line, a lot of which seems a little suspect and makes me think there's a lot more to this than we are being led to believe. It wouldn't be the first time these government types have made accusations against innocent people. Report the story enough and even if there is little or no evidence presented, people will still use the old "no smoke without fire" line and condemn the accused anyway.

We'll have to see how this pans out as times goes by.

From what I understand, and possibly wrongly, much of their wealth was acquired by collecting welfare for these children being born....that does make it the government's business to some extent if this is true. My taxes paid for that....my taxes can't pay for my own church, why should they pay for...this? Also, as I understand it, possibly wrongly, the family tree is showing that there are basically three or four families that make up the lot of these displaced children. Obviously, having no inside information, I can only rely on what the news is saying and so far it is saying enough to make some sort of case.

OK, let's say these people have a right to do whatever it is they were doing. Fine. I don't like the abuse of children thing but for the sake of argument here let's call it a "lifestyle." Twelve year old girls bearing children, possibly to their 65 year old Uncle Joe, great, whatever. So raise crops, run your farms, earn an income like the rest of us and don't expect the state to take care of you and not think that they will assume the right to control you when they choose. I agree this mess sets a nasty precedent but it always goes back to if you do the wrong thing bad things will happen. And although some don't want to acknowledge this, there is a "right" and "wrong." Any, so-called Christian, "sect" should recognize this immediately and not scam the tax payers out of money, for starters.

These poor mother's so worried about their children...I wonder if they were as worried when their daughters were being raped on the sacramental bed?

reply to post by eradown


This is about the ranch.


abcnews.go.com...

The tale about the oil people came from a despicable conservative website. Someone posted several areal photographs of the ranch. When asked how he came by the pictures; he wrote that the rich oil men in the area flew drones over the ranch all the time. The poster went on to say he thought the rich men would become vigillantes if none of the charges stick. The posts were almost immediately pulled. You can take that for what it is worth.

reply to post by bodrul


Yes, is interesting that many of the information the molestation and sexual abuse of young girls is kept to a minimum because the age of the girls in question.

Many are trying to find apologies for this behavior, making it an issue of constitutional bases.

But the sky can not be covered with the palm of your hand and neither with their Mormon bible.

Abuse has been committed against children girls specially.

In America is against the law what they have been doing with the underage marriage rampage.

I only have one word for it, sick, sick and more sick.

Anybody that can find excuses for this behavior and then turn around to condone what goes on in Arabs nation that also denigrate women needs to have their priorities check.

This type of behavior iagainst young girls is unacceptable in America.

reply to post by bodrul


Many young teenage girls are becoming pregnant in Texas. It is a shame. Authorities usually do not demand the ages of the father . If the kids are lucky they do not end up in the care of Texas CPS. There is a reason why this Ranch was invaded and slums with similar problems were left alone(not that I would support such police state antics). Follow the money.

reply to post by marg6043


Marg, I like a lot of your stuff, but I have to disagree with you here.

Who are you to impose your values on other people to start with? Secondly, show me the evidence that anyone is guilty of a crime, and I will agree that they should have been arrested and pulled out of that compound.

This is all pure propoganda of the highest order. Think about it. What are the three things that piss of the general population more than anything. Polygamy, child-molestation, and paying for welfare. Well there you have it. Tell people that their tax dollars are going to polygamist child molesters, and the last fragments of the Constitution get tossed out the window to the thunderous applause of the people.

Don't be blinded by the propoganda, and don't be a fool. At this point, I really don't care what these people have done. They could have been a butt-raping cannibal colony for all I care, that still does not give the government the right to go in and do what they did. Furthermore, you can't condemn an entire community based on the deeds of individuals within that community.

A sixteen year-old girl was shot in my town this week by a fifty-something year old man. Should the government be able to swarm into my town, drag everyone from their homes and check for firearms becasue of it? Or scatter everyone's families to the four-winds for DNA testing and interrogations?

[edit on 4/28/0808 by jackinthebox]

[edit on 4/28/0808 by jackinthebox]

You are entitle to your own opinions and me I am as liberal as it can come and hate government excessive powers over people.

But I am not going to agree on child abuse and force rape/marriage of under age girls so I can be politically correct.

I base my choice of opinion in this matter on the law, it is against the law to force under age girls to have sex with adult males even if is under the umbrella of marriage, because the marriage is forced upon the young girl.

I see all this as nothing more than molestation under religious believes.

And that is all I am going to say, be free to debate at will is just a matter of the way we see the issue, it has nothing to do with you or anybody else that see this as a government over kill, I know that you are not defending the sick practices against young girls, just the government interference .

reply to post by marg6043

But I am not going to agree on child abuse and force rape/marriage of under age girls so I can be politically correct.

You see, this is the deliberate emotional clouding of the issue. There is no evidence whatsoever to support these allegations. If there were, a grand jury indictment would have been handed down, just like in the case of their leader. (Which I wonder now if that was all fabricated as well, judging by what I have seen here in this case.)

Honestly, I can't tell you where I stand on polygamy, or where to draw the line on statutory rape. Well, I certainly draw the line at puberty, but beyonf there it becomes shades of gray in my opinion. I think back to when I was fourteen or fifteen, and I can certainly tell you that I was quite willing to gain experience, as were plenty of girls that I knew. In fact, I would say that the girls were even more agressive toward older men in many cases. (Older as in high-school and college guys I mean.) Either way though, as long is someone isn't coerced or actually violently raped, I tend to reserve judgement, and try to see what the sitation really is. I think it's idiotic to send a nineteen year-old kid to prison for having sex with a sixteen year-old classmate for example.

But aside from all of that, it really doesn't matter what you and I believe, it is a matter of precedent. No crime was comitted, yet they stormed in and did what they did. If you want to claim that a crime or crimes may have been comitted, that is all well and good, but unless you can prove it, you don't have a leg to stand on, and can actually make yourself liable for making such unfounded allegations.

But more importantly, there is a terrible truth behind all of this, and that is that what has been done, actually is legal, and not because of child-molestaion or polygamy, or any of that. The horrible truth is that the government has the legal right to come and take your children at any time and for any reason, once you sign a birth certificate. But now I wonder, did these women sign legal birth certificates? Or did they just record the births in a family bible? There is a world of difference legally in the answer to that. Because if they did not sign birth certificates, then the government has indeed committed a crime, wether or not they were conducting an investigation. Those people cannot be held for more than seventy-two hours against their will unless charges are filed.



[edit on 4/28/0808 by jackinthebox]