Raelian Conspiracy to Overthrow Religion

Originally posted by Bigwhammy
I didn't make it up. It's been in the news....

raelianews.org...

Indiana University-Purdue University Indianapolis Involved in Extortion Plot and Civil Rights Violation
The US Raelian Movement has filed a tort claim against the Indiana University-Purdue University Indianapolis (IUPUI) regarding employees who have been involved in a plot to extort millions of dollars from the Raelian Movement and its leader Rael. Threats of violence and an attempt to prevent Raelians from exercising their First Amendment rights were also involved as well as multiple violations of the IUPUI ethical codes regarding research with live subjects. See the full claim IUPUI tort claim

Ricky Roehr, leader of the US Raelian Movement declared: “Although they tried to portray a dangerous infiltration of the Raelian Movement, Abdullah Hashem, an IUPUI researcher and his team were granted full access to the annual Raelian seminar and interview of Rael and Raelian Movement members. This access was subject to our standard contract which states that any film footage is and remains the Raelian Movement’s property and that any edited footage could not be released without approval of the Raelian Movement.”

Hashem did not honor that agreement and along with his partners produced a film that falsely and sensationally accused the Raelians of criminal acts. Its premiere was hosted in November 2006, by the IUPUI Department of Religious Studies at Lilly Hall despite the knowledge that the footage was stolen and the content a biased and inaccurate portrayal of the Raelian Movement.

In December 2006, a further outrage was perpetrated by Hashem when the disputed film footage was used to incite a disabled man to make threats of violence against Rael.



To add to the offense Hashem offered to hand over the film footage to the Raelians, if the Raelians would cease all operations in the United States and Egypt and disburse all funds belonging to the Raelian Movement.

The parties named in the tort claim against IUPUI are: Abdullah Hashem, Joseph McGowen, Catherine Crouch, Dragonslayer Productions, Hashem Films, Mariah White, Brandon Javella , Professors David Craig, Kelly Hayes, and Thomas J. Davis and the IUPUI Religious Studies Student Association.

Ricky Roehr added: “This is not Abdullah Hashem’s first brush with misconduct. At IUPUI, in March 2006; he was sanctioned by the University Student Government and disqualified from running for office due to Voter Fraud and False Accusations of Misconduct.”

Brigitte Boisselier, Raelian official spokesperson in the picture above with Hashem, declared: "There is one annual seminar per continent where Raelians gather and enjoy sharing their philosophy and their joy to attend the teachings of their spiritual leaders. These seminars are a mixture of celebration and spiritual awakening ... no place for criminal acts there... The only criminals are those who come there to hurt us as our doors are wide opened to all.... but we also know how to use the law to protect ourselves. We know we will not change individuals like Hashem who are eager to make money out of anything, but when a university is involved, encouraging hatred like they have done supporting the work of Hashem, then something needs to be done!"

Originally posted by Howie47
No one (owns) Christianity. So how can it, "belief itself" to be any
thing. Christianity isn't an individual entity. It is only a term that discribes
the followers of the teachings of Christ. Teachings that are so numerious. That the World itself could not contain the books.
Your statment is narrow minded and sterotypeing of what or who a Christian is or isn't.

I know that Baptists think Methodists are a different species entirely or something, but from the outside view, there's absolutely no difference, except marginal variations between Catholics, Protestants, and Orthodoxy. You are all the same, everywhere that it actually counts.

And yes, Christians do believe every soul on earth belongs to their religion. This is why they declare every other religion to be a lie at the same time they aggressively try to convert people in every nation on the face of the earth. If you don't realize this is one of the core principles of the faith - "spreading hte good word" they call it - then I'm sorry, you're a pretty ill-educated Christian.

reply to post by ThreeNF


Yeah, I posted the lawsuit too. But it doesn't diminish the claims at all in my mind. I believe there is testimony from two wealthy guys who were allegedly lured to make big donations with sexual favors in that documantary. I guess the courts will decide.

Seems like all the issues with raeliens are sex obsessed so the allegations make sense

Raelian Sex

In 1950s sci-fi movies, aliens brought mankind gifts like solutions to world peace and the cure for cancer. In the new millennium, they just want us to have a lot of sex. The October 2004 issue of Playboy featured the other-worldly Raelians, a UFO group known for its standards of free and open sexuality as well as its belief that life on Earth was engineered by space aliens. The Raelians are, however, best known for the 2002 cloning scandal, when Clonaid--a company founded by the group's leader, Rael--gained worldwide notoriety for making unsubstantiated claims of having successfully cloned human beings.

Three Raelian women are featured in the Playboy pictorial, including Marina Boisselier, the daughter of Clonaid CEO Brigitte Boisselier, and Sophie, who has been the life companion of Rael for the past thirteen years.

At a September 19, 2004, press conference in Montreal, Rael spoke "on the topic of nudity and spirituality," and praised Hugh Hefner, Playboy's publisher, for "his commendable actions aimed at breaking sexual taboos and for actively taking part in the evolution of lifestyles." Rael awarded Hefner (in absentia) the title of "Honorary Priest." Inquiring minds want to know: will a UFO landing pad be installed at the Playboy mansion anytime soon?

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findarticles.com...

reply to post by TheWalkingFox

And yes, Christians do believe every soul on earth belongs to their religion.

If they belonged to our religion why would we need to evangelize to them Fox?

Obviously we do not believe that. We want everyone to come to Christ because we believe it to be the one true religion, if that is what you meant to say? Then sure. But no most people do not belong to our religion. Unfortunately even some that think they do actually do not.

Originally posted by Bigwhammy
reply to post by ThreeNF

 

Yeah, I posted the lawsuit too. But it doesn't diminish the claims at all in my mind. I believe there is testimony from two wealthy guys who were allegedly lured to make big donations with sexual favors in that documantary. I guess the courts will decide.

Seems like all the issues with raeliens are sex obsessed so the allegations make sense

findarticles.com...

LOL - You poor man. I think the problem is that most people are sexually REPRESSED, because society, churches, etc. tell you it's wrong. Stupid. To be sexually "obsessed" means your body and mind are functioning correctly. Enjoy it!! Don't repress it!!

Originally posted by Bigwhammy
reply to post by TheWalkingFox

 

And yes, Christians do believe every soul on earth belongs to their religion.

If they belonged to our religion why would we need to evangelize to them Fox?

Obviously we do not believe that. We want everyone to come to Christ because we believe it to be the one true religion, if that is what you meant to say? Then sure. But no most people do not belong to our religion. Unfortunately even some that think they do actually do not.

Are you saying that some people don't belong, or aren't worthy of your religion? I hope I'm reading that wrong

reply to post by ThreeNF


Poor man hardly...

it's shame that people stoop to define themselves with sex. Human beings are worth so much more than hedonistic self centered pleasure. But alas humans are fallen and sin rules the world. The Raeliens just embrace that fact and worship sex and sin.

I think the damage sexual liberation has done to society is very well documented. Stds , perversion, rape, kids in broken homes, divorce...

I know it is not possible but consider that if everyone followed the Biblical guideline of only sex between a man and one wife in an ideal way none of those would ever be issues. And you could still have sex. The way God intended it.

But unfortunately people are very shallow and seek after instant gratification and cheap pleasure, so we have a very screwed up world as a consequence.

reply to post by ThreeNF

Are you saying that some people don't belong, or aren't worthy of your religion? I hope I'm reading that wrong

No I am just saying that everyone does not belong"to Christianity" the way Fox phrased it. . It is a choice that God will put on your heart when the time is right. Actually in truth no one is worthy. Certainly not me. God grants us grace through the sacrifice of his son. That is the only thing that really makes us worthy.

[edit on 4/8/2008 by Bigwhammy]

Originally posted by Bigwhammy
reply to post by ThreeNF

 

Poor man hardly...

it's shame that people stoop to define themselves with sex. Human beings are worth so much more than hedonistic self centered pleasure. But alas humans are fallen and sin rules the world. The Raeliens just embrace that fact and worship sex and sin.

I think the damage sexual liberation has done to society is very well documented. Stds , perversion, rape, kids in broken homes, divorce...

I know it is not possible but consider that if everyone followed the Biblical guideline of only sex between a man and one wife in an ideal way none of those would ever be issues. And you could still have sex. The way God intended it.

But unfortunately people are very shallow and seek after instant gratification and cheap pleasure, so we have a very screwed up world as a consequence.

We don't "worship" sex and it certainly isn't how one defines a Raelian. However, most Raelians do enjoy sex and we don't consider it taboo (sin) like your church is making you believe.

Raelians = Love = Science = Religion

That's how I define a Raelian In fact, I highly recommend you download Rael's book "Intelligent Design" along with another book from him called "The Maitreya". Maybe then you'll understand what a Raelian really is

reply to post by ThreeNF


Sex is not taboo or sinful in christian teachings. Instead, it's presented as a responsiblity of great magnitude. The responsibility lies in not creating new humans you have no intention of raising, not violating the bodies of people you have no intention of caring for afterwards. It's also showing responsbility to the woman who will have to carry the offspring, which not only uses up some of the available calcium in her bones and teeth, but risks her very life, a thing most men don't even consider -- all they can think of is the orgasm. The sexual revolution, regardless of how it's presented in popular media, was actually very anti-female.

We are asked to rise above our lower nature, to be in control of our situation and not the other way around.

reply to post by undo


Very well said Undo. If people don't become obbsessed with sex though, why is it so hard to keep people from looking at porn? As a matter of fact sex is something that does need to be controlled. I have a friend, he is married and has two kids, he is very sexually active with his wife and broadcasts his sexual experiences with her to me and my friends, he's married and is obssesed with sex (he loves having sex with his wife), but his obsession with sex has had a negative effect on his kids. His kids talk about sexual things, things that he for some reason can't stop talking about to me and my friends (I think it's pretty disgusting which is why I don't hang out with him that much). His kids talk about this stuff to there friends and strangers (very outgoing children), these kids aren't over the age of ten even, this is dangerous.
But porn and sex are very adictive things, it's hard to break someone of adictive things like that (I know this from experience).
If homosexuality is ok and natural (as raelians claim), then what about pedophilia? Pedophilia is simply a love for children isn't it? So the sexual practise on children (which you could probably bride them with candy or icecream I'm guessing, shoot I'm bribable with that stuff, sorry no will power) would just be play wouldn't it? It's not harmful right as long as it's consensual right? So do Raelians support this as well? According to your ideas about sex it seems only logical (according to your own logic stated). Honestly, you could say the same about beastiality and othe unnatural (lets face it, it's VERY unnatural) sex practises. I'm not accusing you guys of being some low life that rapes kids and animals, but doesn't that makes sense (none of that makes sense to me btw)?

And you guys still havent answered my question.
This question is for the RAELIANS:
Why do aliens abduct people and do bad things to them? You guys said that they're all peacful, so why do bad things, things that are violent? Taking someone agianst there will and doing sexual hings to them is a form of violence.
If you guy's don't know, then I'd seriously start questioning what it is you believe about these guys. Is there an email address so I can ask these things To Rael personally? I mean the guy has nothing to hide I'm sure so there must be an email address right? Something at least.

Control sex? That's ridiculous. Let's take away all our freedom then. The problem is that there is a serious lack of EDUCATION about it. I love the guys that say, "I don't want my daughter to have sex until X age". That's completely stupid. The best thing you can tell your children is to be SMART about it, because they're going to do it Educate them! It's their body, their pleasure, their orgasm. How does anyone have any right to stop that?

As for homosexuality, yes, we feel it's natural. It's written into your genes so to speak. To discriminate against it just epitomizes mankind's stupidity. In fact, I would venture to say that a very large percentage of the population is bi-sexual, but many are simply fearful to admit it because of the brainwashing by society and church that tells us it's wrong or sinful.

Pedophilia is a different story. Talk to the Catholic church about that - they don't seem to have a problem with it. The Raelian view on that is that it is a mental disease (see quote later below). However, I will say this, and this is only my point of view and does not represent Raelians in general. I feel that when a person becomes of the age when they can experience sex in a pleasurable fashion, then the law, church, or whatever, has absolutely no right to tell them when and with whom they can have sex with. Controlling isn't going to solve anything here. Education is better.

Here is the quote about the Raelians stance on pedophilia.

Even if we are in favor of sexual freedom between consenting adults, if you are a pedophile you are definitely not welcome in the Raelian movement. Not only because our position is very clear condemning it as a mental disease, but also because, contrary to the politics of the Catholic church which has been hiding pedophile priests (see nopedo.org) and moving them from parish to parish so they can make more victims of their disgusting behavior, the Raelian movement has a strict policy of not only expelling immediately any member suspected of pedophilia or sex with people under legal age BUT ALSO to immediately report them to the police.

Some of you may have been attracted to our philosophy due to defamatory articles in French speaking newspapers and magazines, stating that our philosophy being in favor of sexual freedom would then favor pedophilia. The reality is strictly the opposite. When individuals have a fulfilled sexual life, they don't even think of imposing their sexuality on children, unlike Catholic Priests unfortunately do, due to their lack of sexuality. Some articles even refer to the Raelian order of angels, a congregation of women who want to develop their femininity and who can make the vow, if they wish so, to devote their sexuality only to our Creators and their Prophets. They would then wear a pink feather around their neck to openly show their desire to have no sex. These women decide freely to do so, just as catholic nuns would do; this is part of the free sexuality that we profess, the right to say no to sex as well. In this organization angel minors also have to signal the fact that they are under the legal age for sex, by wearing a black feather around their neck to make sure that no adult Raelian approach them at any time with sex in mind. Some of these minor angels also choose to have no sex at all, thus refusing sex with potential minor partners which most young girls experience during their teens. They would then wear a pink feather as well. Some newspapers have seen the minors' beautiful decision of reserving their sexuality for our Creators as an indication of pedophilia, which is completely ridiculous.

It is very clear in the Raelian Philosophy that pedophilia is a sign of mental disease and will never be tolerated within the organization. Any member, whatever his rank, who would be found guilty of such a behavior will be expelled and reported to legal authority.

Originally posted by jimmyjackblack
reply to post by undo

 

Abductions - I'm afraid I don't have a good answer for you here. I've never seen a ufo, nor have I been abducted Anyway, here is a response from another Raelian who gave me permission to share. Hope it helps.

First of all, there's a lot of assumptions in what you write/ask here. There's been more and more research on the "abduction" phenomenon and there is a huge amount of evidence which shows this whole phenomenon is caused by sleep paralysis combined with one's belief system - a sort of pop culture belief system. One of the leaders in this is Dr. Susan Blackmore (U.K.) She's done some fantastic research and is even able to make subjects really believe they were abducted/probed etc during the night when they were only sleeping in a laboratory under very controlled conditions. She does this by attaching one of those little caps on their head which has electrodes on it. The whole abduction experience is similar to NDE's (near death experiences) in that both are simply caused by neurons firing off in a certain manner - not unlike any of the nutty dreams any of us may have personally had which seemed quite real at the time. Even better, having a dream that you woke up and were doing something then actually waking to realize you were dreaming you're awake. The same thing happened in the Dark Ages when people were sure that fairies, gnomes etc existed and were torturing people at night. And - sleep paralysis is very interesting. The body releases chemicals when we sleep that sort of paralyze us to an extent so that we don't get up and act out our dreams. However, if you wake up while still under the influence, it can be quite alarming. You can't move! Add to this the dream state you';re just coming out of, pop culture (be it of aliens in this century, vampires of 200 years ago, witches of 500 years ago etc...) and the whole experience can be very frightening. But...it doesn't mean it's real! The point its this: the brain is so very, very complex and constantly tricks us. We all live in a world of illusion. Lily Tomlin (comedienne from the 70's) said "what is reality but a collective hunch?". I always liked that analogy. :-)

By the way, NDE reports usually include people in white calling one on thru a tunnel, a feeling of euphoria etc. It is really important to know that fighter pilots live these effects regularly when pulling heavy G's since the blood is rushed from the brain thus the brain is oxygenated in a less than normal way.

The Elohim are are Creators. They have no reason at all to probe/experiment etc on us. The built us from the ground up. Why would the watchmaker need to experiment on the watch? And, if one believes in God instead of "aliens" (even tho they were here before we were so WE'RE actually the aliens.,.hehe) , why would God be allowing aliens to do this? Of course the clergy usually had only 1 answer. "They're sent by the devil", and this is just more of the pop culture effect and their answer will evolve as society/experience/learning evolves. It's just as we did with witches, furies, vampires etc. in past centuries. None of these things exist but the human brain has no choice but to try to fit new information into current or old paradigms. This is a huge, huge trap we constantly fall into. It bears repeating, the human brain has no choice but to try to fit new information into current or old paradigms. We constantly have to "adjust" our answers to try to fit the current paradigm...and the illusion continues until we reach an age of understanding more of how the brain works...and we're getting there!

Control sex? That's ridiculous. Let's take away all our freedom then.

Well, let's remove "religion" from the equation and take a gander at what "sex" does:

1. It creates babies. Lots of them. Which is a good thing if you intend on taking care of the baby and not such a good thing if you expect someone else to take the entire burden

2. It's a craps shoot. A big gamble, every time you have sex you are endangering yourself and the person you are engaging in sex with, because:

-- A. The female may get pregnant regardless of efforts otherwise
-- B. Disease is spread in this fashion because the devices on our bodies by which we procreate and encounter each other sexually, are intimately connected to the most biologically unclean parts of our bodies

2. Because it creates lots of babies, it also, ultimately, burdens society with children no one cares about because neither the mother or father had any intention of "getting" pregnant to begin with. Something EVERYONE knows is the natural endgame of sexual intercourse.

You can't tell me that scenarios like this one: www.gendercide.org... are good for the planet. What you have there are orphanges, filled to the brim almost entirely, with unwanted female children (and those are just the ones that survived abortion).

Face it, the reason sex is promoted as some glorious social event, is that the people who make or break a thing's popularity, are primarily men who, historically, have not had the additional concern or health issues as women have, related to sex.

Sexual encounters with other human beings, have lasting effects, physically. spiritually and emotionally. We need to be more responsible instead of less, as we grow in knowledge about how the universe works.


[edit on 9-4-2008 by undo]

reply to post by ThreeNF


Is pedophilia really a mental diesease? Were is the proof of that? And if the child (let's go with um, I don't know, how's about 8) agrees to perform it, than that would line of with your beliefs correct? It's two people deciding to do it so then it can't be wrong right?

That document you posted about abductions is not very helpful. Why is it that after being abducted some people get implants in them, implants that are made of metal (sometimes unknown types) and give off a radio signal only readable by satellites and once extracted from the body shut off? These implants are excpted by the body as a part of it, nerves bind to it. It happened to me, I had an implant, but once they (the aliens as you call them) took it outta me I started having problems with my leg, it hurts and is a discomfort to me right now as I'm writing this, it makes it hard for me to sleep sometimes (along with my back pain). I've never had sleep paralsys before, I was not dreaming when this happened to me, there are other people who aren't even at home, but driving and get out of there car to see a ufo and the it lands and they get taken, how do the Raelians explain that? Simply put, I pretty sure (I know actually) that you guys are being lied to, if I were you I'd look at what the religion believes and put it under strict questioning, that's what I did about my beliefs and I still believe John 3:16 more than ever before.

Originally posted by undo

I completely agree with you in that people should not have children that they don't plan on supporting. Sex isn't and shouldn't only be about procreation. This is why education is fundamentally important, to teach our children how to prevent unwanted pregnancies and diseases. Education and science is the key. Controlling is not.

Originally posted by ThreeNF

Originally posted by undo

I completely agree with you in that people should not have children that they don't plan on supporting. Sex isn't and shouldn't only be about procreation. This is why education is fundamentally important, to teach our children how to prevent unwanted pregnancies and diseases. Education and science is the key. Controlling is not.

Education doesn't help because there's no moral imperative. That's the weak link in the chain and the one that drives the entire problem to begin with.

Originally posted by undo

Originally posted by ThreeNF

Originally posted by undo

I completely agree with you in that people should not have children that they don't plan on supporting. Sex isn't and shouldn't only be about procreation. This is why education is fundamentally important, to teach our children how to prevent unwanted pregnancies and diseases. Education and science is the key. Controlling is not.

Education doesn't help because there's no moral imperative. That's the weak link in the chain and the one that drives the entire problem to begin with.

Then I'm afraid we're going to have to agree to disagree.

Originally posted by jimmyjackblack
reply to post by ThreeNF

 

Is pedophilia really a mental diesease? Were is the proof of that? And if the child (let's go with um, I don't know, how's about 8) agrees to perform it, than that would line of with your beliefs correct? It's two people deciding to do it so then it can't be wrong right?

That document you posted about abductions is not very helpful. Why is it that after being abducted some people get implants in them, implants that are made of metal (sometimes unknown types) and give off a radio signal only readable by satellites and once extracted from the body shut off? These implants are excpted by the body as a part of it, nerves bind to it. It happened to me, I had an implant, but once they (the aliens as you call them) took it outta me I started having problems with my leg, it hurts and is a discomfort to me right now as I'm writing this, it makes it hard for me to sleep sometimes (along with my back pain). I've never had sleep paralsys before, I was not dreaming when this happened to me, there are other people who aren't even at home, but driving and get out of there car to see a ufo and the it lands and they get taken, how do the Raelians explain that? Simply put, I pretty sure (I know actually) that you guys are being lied to, if I were you I'd look at what the religion believes and put it under strict questioning, that's what I did about my beliefs and I still believe John 3:16 more than ever before.

As I said, I've never been abducted so I'm afraid I'm not the best Raelian to answer your question. UFOs and abductions is not something I talk about with other Raelians simply because I have a completely different interest in the movement.

Rael doesn't claim that aliens created the universe. Only that they genetically modified life to make humans.

undo, jimmy and I recognize that story. Rael was not the first one to reveal it, it is a very old one that is being recycled.

If you do not believe in God or a soul. Science is your religion you say. You are a philosophical materialist. If our human intellect is a product of the chemistry and interactions of molecules in our brains. Then why trust your thinking at all? After all it is just the accidental reactions of atoms. Your belief system actually undermines science in a very fundamental way. To even have science one must presuppose that ones intellect is capable of deciphering the laws of the universe. The only reason to assume that there are laws and that ones mind can understand them is that the universe and ones brain have a common creator. That requires a common creator God of the laws of matter and ones intellect.