End Of The World As We Know It

The problem is that these vast oil reserves are in ANWR (the national wildlife reserve) where wildlife would be somewhat affected (to what degree nobody knows). That's the reason the debate is so heated on both sides. I honestly like the idea but it would only be temporary and we would still have to pay extra money to produce it, ship it, refine it, etc etc.. It is a nice idea but it only prolongs the inevitable 30 dollars a gallon situation.

We have to face up to it sometime. I'd rather take it on now than my kids and grandkids have to deal with this ridiculous situation. Personally.. It doesn't solve the real problem which is that nothing can compete with big oil and gas.. Not feasibly. All this talk about alternative energy, but you will never see this stuff at the pump at a typical gas station until the government realizes we are already screwed (not to mention, potentially, our economy). That comes after the 30 dollars a gallon.. not before lol.

Food for thought

-ChriS

[edit on 6-4-2008 by BlasteR]

things are going to change folks, good news is on the way!

I'm nevereverever this optimistic, not at all. But after watching / listening to the the recent (in the past few weeks) hearing on C SPAN (station), where all the big gasoline/oil CEO's of companies like .. Exxon/Mobil, Shell, Citgo, and BP/Amoco were grilled by the Senate Committee (forgot exactly which committee) as to WHY their profit margin has been the biggest for all companies since these Middle Eastern tensions flared up, specifically in the Iraq / Iran / Gulf region (not so much in the other portions), I for once am looking at the future optimistically, because now I see why the gas prices are so high. It's because of these record profits being made; they could lower the price, they don't because no one is telling them to. On the contrary, they're being told to keep making these profits and invest them into "alternative energies", yeah right, I'm sure most of it ends up in the alternative bank account.



And Yes, I just wrote a 7 line sentence that started with the word "But", and threw in a capital italic word in there for ATS kewl factor? Oh yeah, I follow that big ass sentence up with another sentence which started the next paragraph, and the first word of the first sentence is "And"! This is just too much English Grammar unorthodoxy for one post and it's driving me slowly and cynically insane, coming soon to the classrooms of your sons and daughters.

Because of the situation of the army deployment and the citizenry here at home, so long as a Democratic President is elected in November of 2008, and seated in the beginning of 2009 *cough* Barak Obama ftw *cough*, these big oil corporations will be forced in many small, legal, annoying ways to have their prices regulated, their profits regulated, and all sorts of things that stop this kind of "runaway profits" where the company starts banging its' own customers in the head, as if we were the addicts and they were the only ones in town with some toxic rock. Damn there I went, starting the third paragraph with a sentence that starts with the word "Because", lol.

How will these checks be created to keep the gas prices in relative balance, and keep the big oil/gas companies from raping us for their mere benefit? Through Federalism, thats what Democrats are all about! It's never good to start a paragraph with a question. The Government will impose laws, add and increase taxations, allow unions to form, remove tax breaks from the companies, and regulate the maximum percentage of profit they can yield per gallon of gasoline through some sort of tricky bill that is passed to ensure that it won't get completely out of control, something I could see the oil companies trying to do in revenge after these changes will be made. So essentially the Government will oversee the Company much more so than currently, this is a running theme of left-wing politics, always has been.

You see, the reason why it is all screwed up right now is because George Bush received tons of campaign contributions and things of that nature back in 2000, and again in 2004, by all of these oil and gasoline companies, with the only intent of getting the kick-back from old George of looking the other way, and instructing the media to do so as well through affiliate companies, all owned by George's family and friends. Therefore one running theme of his Presidency since 2000 has been steadily increasing gas prices. Every single year, without failure, it rises. Every single year, without failure, the big oil companies post record profits! Why do these both happen simultaneously? Gee I wonder.. it's not hard to figure out. Some of you may think that Gasoline prices have been increasing due to World situations and conflicts, along with supply issues, and as well as the harm it is causing on the World itself according to advocates of Global Warming, which I'm not really discussing in this post, be it in agreement or disagreement. But let me just say it is pointless to refute this point, the writing is all over the walls, and it screams Curious George in red crayon.

Once we let the monkey out of the $%&ing cage, and let a black, democratic man take office, some sort of stop will be put to these companies gouging the average american. Time will tell. Maybe instead we'll get a former tortured P.O.W. who has an "well I've been through worse myself in 'Nam, call up the draft, start WWIII!" attitude about things! Wouldn't that be so nice. Or a loosey goosey type who tries who get in bed with the oil companies & the american people at the same time.

[edit on 4/7/2008 by runetang]

Come on is oil really burned?


Everytime I get an oil change they take the oil that was originally in the engine.



Also, keep in mind oil is used extensively in manufacturing of metals.

It's all wasted and thrown away.

We're not at fault here maybe bigger manufacturing is at work. Maybe the problem is the manufacturing of oil itself.


I'm sure with synthetic oils and alternatives the cross over is happening.

And happening at a pace that will not collapse the economy.



Remember Y2K?

The computers were all supposed to end the world.



Give it up.


The people who are at the end working on solutions to the problem know what's up and I'm sure the big picture is not going to be the end of it all. Those people are smart and dedicated.

It's not going to happen instantly and maybe not in our lifetime. Too bad.

It's in the works.



And who cares really? In 2012 the world will be destroyed. The good news is you won't have to worry about being a slave to the system.

Look to the brightside!!!!

You'll never have to use oil again.

Actually the lyrics from the song sum up quite a bit of what is going on.
The point is that we may have oil reservs for over 50 ears but it will become way too expencive for the common man to purchase in 15-20 years max.
Fortunately there are a few alternatives about. I am an automotive engineering studant myself and am researching on alternative fuels. The most promising is cooking oil.
The fact is that most diesel engines can run on cooking oil alone(even used oil if it is filtered). What needs to be done is to set up a supply chain of collecting used cooking oil from restraunts and selling it to people or something like that.
Also we need to cut back on our energy usage.
To quote from the song....Eye of the hurricane listen to yourself churn.
(which might be interpreted as that the calmest part of the hurricane is the eye, which is right in the middle. From the eye's point of view evrything is clam but it is sorrounded with a wave of destruction which never quite reaches the eye)
A lot of us are very lucky that we get enough oil to fill our tanks and food on our plates while there are people in the world who are going hungry. Their countries lack enough power to supply small towns and villages properly and they have to make do with a few hours of power a day if they get power atall.
Yes we are running out of oil but blaming a disfunctional government(which is in power because of us) is not going to help. We have to take action and cut down on our power usage and find alternative sources.
We need to think about the whole world and not just ourselves because what happens out there is going to affect us.
Either we continue as we are doing, use up all out fuel reserves and revert back to the stone age or we start cutting back, using our resources wisely and develop alternative energy sources further.

Originally posted by Copernicus

Dont worry, as soon as they have raped the earth of all the oil for maximum profits, they will present the alternatives they have been hiding/suppressing for the last few decades.



[edit on 6-4-2008 by Copernicus]

Clap, Clap, Clap! Bravo! I couldn't agree more. There is a plan. People are just upset because the government won't tell them what it is.

well there are a few things that i wonder about, hear rumors about and hope for.

why is a strategic commodity traded for profit on the open market?

is it true that oil pumped in alaska is shipped out to international waters then brought back in as foreign oil?

and is all of this really just blustering by the oil companies to get as much out of us as possible before its proven that oil is abiotically produced on an ongoing basis and we'll never run out? abiotic oil

just things i wonder about

about 20 years ago in uk,there was a program on tv regarding an invention made by a very old gent who said he could make a pint of petrol and 7 pints of water with a couple of changes to spark plugs and the carburreter travel much further than a gallon of petrol.
representing the programme and unbiased was a top official of the AA (automobile association).
when interviewed the official said the old gent was bit of a dreamer and did not think it could work.BUT when it was tested under his supervision,not only did it work but also produced about 3x the mpg.
the official was really excited over this trial and asked why the old gent had not approached the the oil companies, his response was that he could not get past the enquiry desk because no-one would not believe him.
no more was heard about this,maybe the oil companies bought the invention and shelved it.
does anyone remember this programme?


[edit on 7-4-2008 by stmichael]

[edit on 7-4-2008 by stmichael]

I believe it is factual to say that 80% of the oil brought to market today comes from oil discoveries made before 1980. Oil consumption has risen consistantly in conjunction with world economic growth. Discoveries of new oil fields have dropped since then. Demand for oil continues to rise steadily and production has been static for two years (at about 85 MBD).

Since the mid 1800's, when fossil fuels replaced animal/human work to power industry, the world population has exploded since so much more food could be produced. There is no alternative energy source that compares with oil in terms of energy density. (How much work can be accomplished.)

We are entering into the end of the age of oil and all that that entails. The radical changes we are seeing in the US have more to do with this fact than with international terrorism IMHO. Even if a new, comparable energy source was found, it would take decades to switch out the infrastructure to use it.

Biofuels? We are now seeing the effect of biofuel production on food production.

Wind? The problem is with scale. It takes many many wind turbines to replace a coal fired power plant and they only work at about 30% efficiency.

Solar? Again scale is the problem.

Nuclear? It takes a lot of oil to build a plant.

The problem of the world economic system being dependent upon unending economic growth (meaning unending growth in energy supplies) is that the current economic paradigm is unsustainable. Could this be part of the reason for the recent ecomomic meltdown in the financial industry?

It has been estimated that renewable energy can only support about 500 million people. That represents a huge die off.

Things are changing and self-sustainability will be the new measure of wealth in the not too distant future. (My opinion)

reply to post by DimensionalDetective
SHEEPLE WAKE UP!
I wasn't going to post anymore, but, this topic requires it.
The world is headed for a full scale crash, that will shut down everything.
THERE WILL BE NO MAGIC BULLET SO SAVE US> NO HIDDEN SCIENCE OR SAVED SECRET PROGRAMS ARE GOING TO STOP THIS CRASH>
The world has more than past the peak on oil production, it is in serious decline. The oceans are dying so fast, that major fishing fleets are now drydocked for good. Canneries are shutting down for lack of sea food products. Humpback whales are starving and are skinnier than ever before wittnessed. Seals are killing and eating eachother. Pollinators of the world are dying off.i.e.Bees,Bats,Birds. The salinity of the oceans has changed so badly, that entire regions of the oceans are now completly dead. Including corals. Fresh water is in dire straights, in Africa, Europe, and even in Greenland. The USA already has a fresh water crisis on its hands.
ALL MAJOR CROPS THAT SUPPORT LIFE are in decline because of drought. The World has less than a 30 day supply of grain. Red wheat is gone. Yellow golden wheat is almost gone. Rice is nearly the same. Food riots are already starting in Indonesia and in Africa. There is a new RED FUNGUS that is attacking wheat crops around the world, and there is no known chemical that will kill it. Australia has had major crop failures repeatedly since 2001. They are in deep trouble. All this is just the tip of the iceberg. There is already pressures on food manufactures to step up production. They cannot, because they can't get the raw product. There isn't any more. Evaporated dry milk supplies are fast dwindling to nothing
around the world. Farmers are slaughering their herds of beef, that would produce milk, because they cannot get the feed grains to feed them. In two years there will be a beef shortage, because they are killing off all the breeding stocks today. Milk is expected to hit $5.00 @ gal soon. Many BURGER CHAINS are now resorting to using low grade beef products to stay in business. Which means you'll be getting more lips, noses, eyes, ears, tails, hoofs, skull tissue, etc. in your Mc Big Burger with fake cheese.
What was dog food, will now be processed for your fat assed enjoyment.
Gasoline WILL hit 7-8 bucks a gal. in 2-3 years. By 2015, it'll be $50.00@gal. Kiss the gas power engined car goodbye. Jet travel will be so expensive, only the very wealthy will be able to afford it. Solar Powered Blimbs are being viewed as replacements. They'd also be quite slow.
You will see more and more roads NEVER being repaired. Asphalt requires oil, and there isn't enough. Concrete is also in short supply. The push in D.C. is to rebuild our railway system. All ABOARD!
The point is SHEEPLE, we all are going to face some serious changes to our ways of life very soon. THE PARTY IS OVER! If you are young now, well, to bad...get over yourself. NOTHING LASTS FOREVER, and the earth is about show us all just what that means. Your lives of gluttony and greed are over. There is no surplus of anything anymore.

for more information, check out Survival Acres dot com. Read the blogs,follow the links, and get ready to soil your drawers. It is all there, in black and white. You SHEEPLE have NO Fricking clue! John at SA will inform you through his tour de force of information there. You may just pray to GOD that you weren't even born! For many, it is way more than they can handle. Oh, there are no UFO's, paranormal crap talk, or the like there...just the facts about the coming crash of culture and the end of the world as you know it.
See ya!

NOTHING LASTS FOREVER, and the earth is about show us all just what that means. Your lives of gluttony and greed are over. There is no surplus of anything anymore.

That is exactly what i am trying to say. Unless we start conserving what we have until we have viable alternatives in the market, we are on a fast track down a rocky road to stone age.
We may blame the government and oil compnies and extradimensional aliens all we want but the fact remains that WE ARE THE ONES WHO USE UP OIL THE MOST BECAUSE OF OUR OBSCENE APATITES.
and the only way to survive this is to go captain planet on this one.

Originally posted by UFOBountyHunter
reply to post by DimensionalDetective

 

SHEEPLE WAKE UP!
I Oh, there are no UFO's, paranormal crap talk, or the like there...just the facts about the coming crash of culture and the end of the world as you know it.
See ya!

Oh.... You're just a pollyanna.....

www.youtube.com...

end of the US is not the end of the world. (we've got Russian oil (and a big reserves ourself)

there are technologies that are applicable immediately. for ex: ethanol, Joe Camble's (not sure of the name) hydrogen cell, nuclear power, and many other

what makes you think the word going to end?

read it in the bible? (misinterpretation, its an eon what is going to end)

another great scam to s*** in your pans, and do what others tell you.
sheep.

but we've got ATS

Originally posted by raptorinvictus
That is exactly what i am trying to say. Unless we start conserving what we have until we have viable alternatives in the market, we are on a fast track down a rocky road to stone age.
We may blame the government and oil compnies and extradimensional aliens all we want but the fact remains that WE ARE THE ONES WHO USE UP OIL THE MOST BECAUSE OF OUR OBSCENE APATITES.
and the only way to survive this is to go captain planet on this one.

until we have viable alternatives in the market

the market.. the good old market. questions to ask is what controls the market and who controls that what?

quite obvious.

if you wait to get on the market than every last drop of money (credit in the case of the average US citizen) will be pressed out from conventional energy sources. while it doesn't happen often, if you do it yourself (make yourself energy independent) you are dead, especially if you stir up some dust in the process.

if viable stuff gets on the market first it won't be that viable but costly. you have double profit from one single change. this is business. and they know how to do it. not just in the US, in fact everywhere.

the death and agony is a byproduct of any change because of this. but as impossible as it seams i think that the americans are the ones who are the most capable to do 90degree turns from this inevitable outcome.

a second industrial revolution might be possible. it will affect all, and i might call it a second renaissance.

hopes are high.

Well, from my observation, the facts tend to lie more in the middle road. It does look like oil production has peaked, and output of crude will slowly begin to decline. It isn't going to decline rapidly, but it will decline, which means that demand is going to have to shrink, and alternative will have to be found.

The easy to get, high quality crude is what is running out. The Earth still has plenty of oil, but it is hard to access, or of a much lower grade. This means our economies will have to change a great deal. Cheap, easily accessible oil has meant that many societies like the rich U.S. economy have built their economies on cheap oil. As oil prices increase, alternative energy sources will be able to compete. There is no magic bullet out there, but there are plenty of readably available alternatives such as wind powered electrical generation, and far more efficient transportation options such as more advanced trains, tube systems, and a wide variety of alternatives.

The good news is that the available alternative energy sources are much more labor and technology dependent, and that means a few corporations are not going to be able to control the world's energy sources. Those with the technical know how will be able to achieve a far greater independence in a world were cheap crude can not so easily dominate our economies.

Yeah, there will be hard times, but look at the bright side, we need a good twist of reality to get ourselves back on track. Greed has been allowed to control our lives for too long, and our biggest problem is that we have all become too spoiled. Those who have technical knowledge and the ability to apply that knowledge to the physical world will do just fine.

Those who have technical knowledge and the ability to apply that knowledge to the physical world will do just fine.

this, nowdays, is controlled entirely by

Greed has been allowed to control our lives for too long, and our biggest problem is that we have all become too spoiled.

there are much sins to shed before this could happen.
maybe the transition to the age of Aquarius will teach us a lesson. or to be more practical, i could say that we might use the water as primary energy source.

it always been something magical about the water. it defies the rules o physics, and i don't think that is accidentally used as the prime holy liquid in many faiths.

the angular composition of the water molecule has some magical ability to store some kind of sensation, feeling, some stuff that we don't understand. holy water (doesn't mater witch faith's blessing) has apparently other minute physical properties than normal one.

we are composed by majority out of water, don't knowing that it has a say in this, but there is impossible to get so much energy out of a hamburger to make us run, work, think, love all day long. if it dose than our tech is the most inefficient stuff that we ever created, and the whole medical "science" goes down the toilet. i also add that we drink 2l of water daily in average (me about 5l).

we have too damn much to learn. and if someone already knows the secrets of water i bet he is high in that "secret world government", or dead.

(some may speculate that the holy liquid is water because it is so essential or abundant on our planet, i think that this might be not enough to be praised)

[edit on 8-4-2008 by encoder]

While I agree there are alternatives, I can guess that we do not have the time to implement it. Implementation of new energy alternatives, requires lots of the old type resources. We do not have enough time to change the entire infrastructure in order to allow alternatives. My opinion? it is already too late. The transition should have started during the first Gold war if a smooth transition was wanted. But it was not wanted. Corporations focus on profit, they are no charities. And the bad news- the Govs = the Corporations. This is without counting the strange "shut down" of the life forms on Earth that would increase the shock even more.

reply to post by sty

Implementation of new energy alternatives, requires lots of the old type resources. We do not have enough time to change the entire infrastructure in order to allow alternatives.

practically you are wrong in both places. of course they want you to believe it because it brigs scarcity (a lot of it) both in materials and time. if you are a good businessman than you can see the opportunity to profit enormously from both. bring up some kind of crediting to profit from time and buy up all what's left from the old resources and cry like this:

there is not enough resources to complete the job. (the plus creates a whole new kind of luxury item, easy to control because it's just a few, and with big money)

there is not enough money to by it. (more credit, more profit, more time)

and it could go on for years wile you sit and wait in front of the supermarket for the "hidrotoaster" to arrive, and after you got it and take it apart, you realize that it is so simple and low quality that even a 12y old could construct one. and you rip your hairs out that you payed 500$ for a toaster that is relatively simple, and you waited 3 years for a toast. (don't know how much it costs, but here you can by one for about 15$, and it even works for more then 2 month).

but if the "H-toaster" is here now, guess what the price would be?

more you wait = more demand = higher prices = more profit

it's the same with technology, resources, movies and toasters.

Originally posted by UFOBountyHunter
reply to post by DimensionalDetective

 

SHEEPLE WAKE UP!
I wasn't going to post anymore, but, this topic requires it.
The world is headed for a full scale crash, that will shut down everything.
THERE WILL BE NO MAGIC BULLET SO SAVE US> NO HIDDEN SCIENCE OR SAVED SECRET PROGRAMS ARE GOING TO STOP THIS CRASH>
The world has more than past the peak on oil production, it is in serious decline. The oceans are dying so fast, that major fishing fleets are now drydocked for good. Canneries are shutting down for lack of sea food products. Humpback whales are starving and are skinnier than ever before wittnessed. Seals are killing and eating eachother. Pollinators of the world are dying off.i.e.Bees,Bats,Birds. The salinity of the oceans has changed so badly, that entire regions of the oceans are now completly dead. Including corals. Fresh water is in dire straights, in Africa, Europe, and even in Greenland. The USA already has a fresh water crisis on its hands.
ALL MAJOR CROPS THAT SUPPORT LIFE are in decline because of drought. The World has less than a 30 day supply of grain. Red wheat is gone. Yellow golden wheat is almost gone. Rice is nearly the same. Food riots are already starting in Indonesia and in Africa. There is a new RED FUNGUS that is attacking wheat crops around the world, and there is no known chemical that will kill it. Australia has had major crop failures repeatedly since 2001. They are in deep trouble. All this is just the tip of the iceberg. There is already pressures on food manufactures to step up production. They cannot, because they can't get the raw product. There isn't any more. Evaporated dry milk supplies are fast dwindling to nothing
around the world. Farmers are slaughering their herds of beef, that would produce milk, because they cannot get the feed grains to feed them. In two years there will be a beef shortage, because they are killing off all the breeding stocks today. Milk is expected to hit $5.00 @ gal soon. Many BURGER CHAINS are now resorting to using low grade beef products to stay in business. Which means you'll be getting more lips, noses, eyes, ears, tails, hoofs, skull tissue, etc. in your Mc Big Burger with fake cheese.
What was dog food, will now be processed for your fat assed enjoyment.
Gasoline WILL hit 7-8 bucks a gal. in 2-3 years. By 2015, it'll be $50.00@gal. Kiss the gas power engined car goodbye. Jet travel will be so expensive, only the very wealthy will be able to afford it. Solar Powered Blimbs are being viewed as replacements. They'd also be quite slow.
You will see more and more roads NEVER being repaired. Asphalt requires oil, and there isn't enough. Concrete is also in short supply. The push in D.C. is to rebuild our railway system. All ABOARD!
The point is SHEEPLE, we all are going to face some serious changes to our ways of life very soon. THE PARTY IS OVER! If you are young now, well, to bad...get over yourself. NOTHING LASTS FOREVER, and the earth is about show us all just what that means. Your lives of gluttony and greed are over. There is no surplus of anything anymore.

for more information, check out Survival Acres dot com. Read the blogs,follow the links, and get ready to soil your drawers. It is all there, in black and white. You SHEEPLE have NO Fricking clue! John at SA will inform you through his tour de force of information there. You may just pray to GOD that you weren't even born! For many, it is way more than they can handle. Oh, there are no UFO's, paranormal crap talk, or the like there...just the facts about the coming crash of culture and the end of the world as you know it.
See ya!

I have said basically the same thing many times before. I agree with at least 90% of what was stated. Yes, the oil companies and the government that they have paid off will continue to rape the American public while lining their pockets with record profits.
This will continue as long as they can possible make it happen. Their record profits are not being put into alternative energy. Only token technologies and marketing are hiding their real intent.

The real problem in our society is built on oil. Every facet of our lives is controlled by oil. Think about if oil was cut off today. Tomorrow you have no water, gasoline, food or a government. Society would cease to exist and survival mode, every man for himself, anarchy would ensue.

I can look out of my window at work and see the bridges of the freeways here in the OC and see countless cars traveling over them every day. Many of them are burning up gasoline in frivolous pursuits. It is the price we pay from over abundance and irresponsibility in a free society.

I can pass hundreds of cars on the road every day and very few will be more the three years old. There are many sports cars, trucks and SUVs. This is just a example of an irresponsible middle class burning loads of fuel in their 2 1/2 ton behemoths of steel to transport 1 person 50 miles each day. These same people are probably exactly the same way in their homes – energy hogs.

In 10 years I can see the roads transformed to more responsible corridors, because it is true that we are well underway in a reduction in world-wide oil production. This transformation will cause much turmoil and pain for every one. This was going to happen anyway and the result will be an extend recession or depression if we don’t have a strong government to lead us.

It does not take the brains of Einstein to realise that a country that depends on oil so much such as America will be in serious trouble. The main problem is that most people do not realise just what oil goes into product wise. And yes if people wish to turn back the clock thats fine but a idont see a mass dumping of suv's etc. do you.

Americans are insular and appear to totally disconnected from whats really going on, I read some winging about $4 for petrol what about $20 and coming to you soon. People wont believe it till they can see the tidal wave about to hit them.

Originally posted by biggie smalls

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
we get realistic and start exploiting our own resources.

There's the problem in your thinking right there. We shouldn't exploit anything. We need to work with nature rather than against it. So far we've done quite a great job at disregarding our connection to the planet, but soon we will have no choice but to go back to the drawing board.

Pretty words. No one that writes words such as these ever continues on to also tell you that these words sign the death sentence for billions of people on this planet who's way of life would no longer be supported or sustainable.



[edit on 4/8/2008 by centurion1211]