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Bush Arms Buildup Rivals Hitler and Stalin

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posted on Apr, 6 2008 @ 12:53 PM
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And yet you don't refute any of what I said, and please show me where I agreed with the war in Iraq.

As for Clinton, read this thread

www.abovetopsecret.com...&addstar=1&on=4203682#pid4203682

Typical response, you have nothing to argue with, so you go with silly posts such as yours above. Sad really.




posted on Apr, 6 2008 @ 12:55 PM
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reply to post by US Monitor
 


Clinton was arguably a bigger douche than Bush, but he didn't invade Iraq or Afghanistan (Kosovo is another story). They both do what politicians do best: lie and dodge the aftermath.

To blame either one for all of the countries' problems is wrong, but they lead for the past decade and a half so I have no problem pointing fingers.



posted on Apr, 6 2008 @ 01:00 PM
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reply to post by biggie smalls
 


Now this is a post that I agree with. Bush and Clinton both are horrible. I remember being on active duty when the WTC was first bombed in 93 and Clinton instead of doing something about it, sent a few cruise missiles into Afghanistan which did nothing but waste the money used to build the weapons.

The war in Iraq by W was unneeded and wrong, but then congress did approve it so they must take the blame for it as well.



posted on Apr, 6 2008 @ 01:00 PM
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reply to post by US Monitor
 


The war was SOLD ON LIES---Period. It doesn't take a genius to figure that out. The admin, as well as this corrupted congress ARE ALL CRIMINALS. And I have a good feeling that INTERNATIONAL LAW will have something to say about the legality of what has gone on here. Not only the lies which rammed through this invasion, but the policies of torture, illegal detainment and the use of depleted uranium.


[edit on 6-4-2008 by DimensionalDetective]



posted on Apr, 6 2008 @ 02:00 PM
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Originally posted by Zaphod58
Yeah, because there's no reason to replace planes that are older than most of the crews flying them. Or planes that are falling out of the sky. Or weapons that don't work. Or to pay for the war we're fighting (and whether you agree with it or not, we have to finish what we start). The AVERAGE age of the mainstay of the USAF (the F-15) is almost 26 years old. The B-52 was last built in the early 1960s, the B-1s in the 1980s, and even some of the B-2s are more than 15 years old. They have PASSED the age where they should have been retired, and are still being pushed hard. Almost 21% of our F-16 fleet is grounded for fuselage and wing cracks, and even the C-17 which is still being produced is showing fuselage cracks from the pace of operations we have them under.


This is so very, very true, Mr. Zaphod. Under the Clinton administration, the US armed forces were drastically downsized. Prior oversea "operations" began to take their toll as well. When Bush took over, he needed to reform the US military, to make it a better, more compact, fighting force, turning the US military into a military that truly holds the title of being "second to none."

Then 9/11 happened, and changed our world forever. The US now finds itself engaged in a world wide war on terror. As for military spending, it still makes up a measly 5-6% of US GDP, which amounts to about every nations average military spending in regards to a percentage of GDP.

It is the 21st century, where anything is but certain. New threats emerge, the US has strategic interests all around the world. The US is also the richest nation measured by GNP. With that title, they must have a prolific military force capable of combating the enemys of todays, and tomorrows wars.



posted on Apr, 6 2008 @ 02:05 PM
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reply to post by West Coast
 


Yes, the U.S. finds itself in a worldwide war on terror...Unfortunately, it IS the U.S. that are the biggest terrorists and threats to world peace on earth now, thanks to the catastrophic policies of our Elitist pupeteered gov...Terror = big bucks for these world destroyers. Fear sells.

Sad.



posted on Apr, 6 2008 @ 02:24 PM
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The downsizing of the military you attribute to Clinton actually began immediately after the Gulf War, under Bush Sr. It was an inevitable response to the end of the Cold War, and IMHO didn't go nearly far enough.

Most of the "threats" we face "around the world" are more or less the direct result of our previous overseas meddling. The fact is the US itself faces no serious military threats anywhere within our own natural sphere of interest. We have to go around the world looking for (or manufacturing) them


Accusations of "anti-Americanism" are ludicrous - it is the Empire builders, not the citizens calling for the US military to return to it's shores, that are betraying the principles on which the Republic was founded.

If there is an atmosphere of "anti-Americanism" it is as a direct result of our own actions.

"The great rule of conduct for us, in regard to domestic nations, is in extending our commercial relations, to have with them as little political connection as possible. Europe has a set of primary interests, which to us have none, or a very remote relation. Hence she must be engaged in frequent controversies the causes of which are essentially foreign to our concerns. Hence, therefore, it must be unwise in us to implicate ourselves, by artificial ties, in the ordinary vicissitudes of her politics, or the ordinary combinations and collisions of her friendships or enmities."
- George Washington

"Equal and exact justice to all men, of whatever state or persuasion, religious or political; peace, commerce, and honest friendship with all nations, entangling alliances with none."
- Thomas Jefferson

"In the wars of the European powers, in matters relating to themselves, we have never taken part, nor does it comport with our policy, so to do. It is only when our rights are invaded, or seriously menaced that we resent injuries, or make preparations for our defense."
- James Monroe



posted on Apr, 6 2008 @ 02:32 PM
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Originally posted by US Monitor
And yet you don't refute any of what I said, and please show me where I agreed with the war in Iraq.

As for Clinton, read this thread

www.abovetopsecret.com...&=addstar=1&on=4203682#pid4203682

Typical response, you have nothing to argue with, so you go with silly posts such as yours above. Sad really.


Your attempt to increase a star count failed, just as your arguments.


If you look around and research, you will see why this is an illegal war, we violated a signed treaty, and by our constitution, it is illegal for us to do that. Being part of the U.N. gives us rules and regulations, and even if not, a pre-emptive war is a disgusting false justification for killing people, displacing them, and ruining their way of life. How would you feel if someone made it legal in their country to pre-emptively strike us for building up such a large military, building so many very advanced tools of war, and for being currently involved in multiple wars. If you can't see the parallels to past paths (not cloned paths), then you are in the state of denial.


Our military is supposed to be for defense, not aggression. Tell me when Iraq struck U.S. soil? Tell me where the WMDs are that was the drum beat for heading that way? Tell me why Bin Laden is irrelevant to Bushie now, when he swore he would catch him?


I don't know what world you are in, but 90% of the real life people I talk to are becoming concerned when they see increased surveillance, politicians who don't care what the people want, etc., the other 10% are, but don't want to deal with it because they are already too stressed out.


If you can't see how our great country is being destroyed and the foundations it stands for crumbled, then it is quite a sad day. For someone who speaks of how patriotic they are, you certainly have some studying to do on what it means to be patriotic, our rights as U.S. citizens, and the values that were fought for and blood shed to start this country.


There is no sense in arguing with someone who is obviously not going to listen, read, study, nor understand, but here are some links for you anyway for starters ...

Declaration of Independence

United States Constitution

Common Sense



posted on Apr, 6 2008 @ 03:07 PM
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My country does not torture as a matter of policy.

My country does not spy on it's own citizens without a court order.

My country never attacks another sovereign nation without first being attacked. Never period.

If you don't like my country go start your own!



posted on Apr, 6 2008 @ 04:47 PM
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reply to post by DimensionalDetective
 


I would like to see the international laws that ban DU rounds as well as the other aspects you are referring too.



posted on Apr, 6 2008 @ 04:57 PM
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Originally posted by FreeThinkerIdealist

Originally posted by US Monitor
And yet you don't refute any of what I said, and please show me where I agreed with the war in Iraq.

As for Clinton, read this thread

www.abovetopsecret.com...&=addstar=1&on=4203682#pid4203682

Typical response, you have nothing to argue with, so you go with silly posts such as yours above. Sad really.


Your attempt to increase a star count failed, just as your arguments.

My attempt at what? Grasping at straws there aren't you? Look at the posts to see Clinton's deals with China. I didn't create the thread so I don't know what tangent you are off on here.



If you look around and research, you will see why this is an illegal war, we violated a signed treaty, and by our constitution, it is illegal for us to do that. Being part of the U.N. gives us rules and regulations, and even if not, a pre-emptive war is a disgusting false justification for killing people, displacing them, and ruining their way of life. How would you feel if someone made it legal in their country to pre-emptively strike us for building up such a large military, building so many very advanced tools of war, and for being currently involved in multiple wars. If you can't see the parallels to past paths (not cloned paths), then you are in the state of denial.


What treaty was that? Which UN rules and regulations were broken?
Good luck to any country foolish enough to try and invade the US with an armed force.




Our military is supposed to be for defense, not aggression. Tell me when Iraq struck U.S. soil? Tell me where the WMDs are that was the drum beat for heading that way? Tell me why Bin Laden is irrelevant to Bushie now, when he swore he would catch him?


Tell me where does it say anything about the military for defense only? I want to see specific proof of that one. As someone who actually was in the military I know you are talking out of your ass here. Iraq never had WMD's not now not ever. They never used them against Iran or against their own people. And I don't know why Clinton used that lie during his 8 years in office to continue to order air strikes against Iraq or keep sanctions on them either.
As for OBL, cause there are no troops at all in Afghanistan and Pakistan isn't hiding him there either...So irrelevant huh?



I don't know what world you are in, but 90% of the real life people I talk to are becoming concerned when they see increased surveillance, politicians who don't care what the people want, etc., the other 10% are, but don't want to deal with it because they are already too stressed out.


When have our politicians cared about what the people want? They do what they are told to by the people who buy them off.



If you can't see how our great country is being destroyed and the foundations it stands for crumbled, then it is quite a sad day. For someone who speaks of how patriotic they are, you certainly have some studying to do on what it means to be patriotic, our rights as U.S. citizens, and the values that were fought for and blood shed to start this country.


I don't have to speak it, I walked the walk. I served. I vote. I don't talk and talk, I have been down that road. Have you?


There is no sense in arguing with someone who is obviously not going to listen, read, study, nor understand, but here are some links for you anyway for starters ...

Declaration of Independence

United States Constitution

Common Sense


No sense in talking to someone who doesn't understand the meaning of the links they posted.



posted on Apr, 6 2008 @ 06:05 PM
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There is no reason what so ever to be spending the money on military the way we are. In fact Zaphoid if you want to upgrade all of the goods we have now and update and make new technology why doing we bring the troops home from the 160 countries we have them in and shut down the bases. With the billions we would save doing that we can use that to upgrade our goods. The fact is the only justified war we are fighting right now is the one in Afganistan. The harbored the people who attacked us and they are getting everything they deserve. Iraq, China, Russia, Iran, North Korea, and the other countries that our propaganda machine has told us to hate has never attacked us last I checked. If and when they do then they to should be turned into parking lots.

This whole idea that we are supposed to be some big superpower is bogus that isnt why this country was founded or at least it doesnt say anything like that in a little piece of paper called the constitution that we are to be the policeman of the world and the worlds superpower. As long as we can defend ourselves if someone attacks us then that is fine with me I dont need to play the my wanker is bigger than your wanker China its just not worth it.



posted on Apr, 6 2008 @ 06:06 PM
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I think we've missed the point.

There's something much more sinister about the world then about the US.
Why is it that every time Russia builds up, it's "ok" but when the US does it...Suddenly Bush is Hitler?

Don't give him the credit. Hitler had a goal and achieved it, regardless of how f***** up it was.

Just because the US has a huge military doesn't make us an oppressor. The biggest kid on the block is not always a bully. We went to Iraq for a dumb reason, yes, but how many nations stopped us? How many even spoke against it? Is it because we had a big military? No, by now, you already know the answer. The US is 50% of the problem.

I do not think my country is what many people describe. That's simply too smart. To good of an idea. You give Bush so much credit. And yet we all know he is a fool. But, I suppose even the most petty criminal can accomplish a complicated heist.

No, there something more to the U.N. Or, rather, a lack of. They simply don't care. Because it's not their responsibly what the US does. The UN is not here to unite. It is simply for control.

It's ok, though. We will succumb like Rome; Dying a most undignified death, at the hands of barbarians and unrest.


And how can we win
When fools can be kings
Don't waste your time
Or time will waste you
No one's gonna take me alive
The time has come to make things right
You and I must fight for our rights
You and I must fight to survive

Muse-Knights Of Cydonia
(It's a personal creed of mine)



posted on Apr, 6 2008 @ 06:35 PM
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Originally posted by mybigunit
There is no reason what so ever to be spending the money on military the way we are. In fact Zaphoid if you want to upgrade all of the goods we have now and update and make new technology why doing we bring the troops home from the 160 countries we have them in and shut down the bases. With the billions we would save doing that we can use that to upgrade our goods. The fact is the only justified war we are fighting right now is the one in Afganistan. The harbored the people who attacked us and they are getting everything they deserve. Iraq, China, Russia, Iran, North Korea, and the other countries that our propaganda machine has told us to hate has never attacked us last I checked. If and when they do then they to should be turned into parking lots.

This whole idea that we are supposed to be some big superpower is bogus that isnt why this country was founded or at least it doesnt say anything like that in a little piece of paper called the constitution that we are to be the policeman of the world and the worlds superpower. As long as we can defend ourselves if someone attacks us then that is fine with me I dont need to play the my wanker is bigger than your wanker China its just not worth it.


The war in Iraq should not have happened.
Russia and the US have a little history called the Cold War. Look it up sometime if you want to know more about it.
Iran, the US started the problem there in 53 and they struck back in 79. Since then it is a war of words.
China and NK. Look up the korean war and how China sent in troops to attack the US.



posted on Apr, 6 2008 @ 06:58 PM
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reply to post by US Monitor
 


Cold war is long over and Russia never attacked us.

China was on N Koreas side we shouldnt of been in that war either North Korea never attacked us they attacked the sound but once again because people feel like we have to police the world we stepped in.

Iran we overthrew a democratically elected government there and we put in our peeps and they in turn were overthrown in the late 70s.

Just tell me how many countries attacked us.Im talking here at home not attacking us abroad for being in places we shouldnt be in the first place...I think Pearl Harbor and 9/11 should pretty much sum it up.



posted on Apr, 6 2008 @ 07:18 PM
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Originally posted by Leo Strauss
My country does not torture as a matter of policy.


guantanamo bay, anyone?


My country does not spy on it's own citizens without a court order.


NSA warrantless surveillance controvosy


My country never attacks another sovereign nation without first being attacked. Never period.


when did iraq attack the U.S?

laughable...



posted on Apr, 6 2008 @ 07:20 PM
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I would be happy if they did away with 90% of the social reform programs (welfare, food-stamps, and other financial aid programs). There are too many people in the country who simply cannot pull their own weight and have become dependent on these free money programs. I do not believe it should be our government’s responsibility to play mommy and daddy. Take the money going into those social programs and put that into the military structure as well but use it for benefits, education and better pay for the men and women who service in the arm services.



posted on Apr, 6 2008 @ 07:40 PM
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There's something thats much more sinister and dubious about this Pentagon Weapons Stockpile (that was built and vanished) without a trace, and which has already cost the American Taxpayers in the Trillions, just for these Blunders, which in reality, are not Blunders, but very intentional and calculated moves, to undermine the American Economy with "Termites" from within the System.

Really speaking, Bush the Dubya is just a dumb rubberstamp on behalf of these Conjobs who knew very well that Bush the Dubya, would make a perfect Cheerleader for their Gang-Bang of the Economy, by creating Magic to shift massive amounts of Real Money (not Fiat Money) and Weapons out of America, for a Futures Stock Market Brothel.

Really speaking, Americans are now waking up to this reality, which was always there, but disguised in different shapes, but the deception is now over. It is only when people feel the 'pinch' of the 'bite', do they really sit up and recognize.



posted on Apr, 6 2008 @ 08:31 PM
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Originally posted by mybigunit
Cold war is long over and Russia never attacked us.

China was on N Koreas side we shouldnt of been in that war either North Korea never attacked us they attacked the sound but once again because people feel like we have to police the world we stepped in.

Just tell me how many countries attacked us.Im talking here at home not attacking us abroad for being in places we shouldnt be in the first place...I think Pearl Harbor and 9/11 should pretty much sum it up.


When the North Koreans came across the border into the South, they weren't picking and choosing who they shot. They overran South Korean and US positions. We were there getting the South back on their feet after WW2. When the North got their ass handed to them, the Chinese stepped in.

So, if a country attacks us outside of the Continental US, we should just let it go? US ship steaming in international waters gets attacked by some country for whatever reason?



posted on Apr, 6 2008 @ 08:36 PM
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The article doesn't break down what the money in the defense budget is used for. Sure, it's used to buy new fighters, etc, but it's also used for pay of the troops, new facilities like barracks, housing, etc; clean up of older bases, things that most people don't think about when they see that the budget for defense is being increased.

Several people on this board think that the war in Iraq is wrong, but agree that the US military should have the best equipment and the troops taken care of. Problem is that when they see the cost, they slam on the brakes. "Whoa, those new helmets are a tad pricey. Why not just keep using the old ones."

Can't have it both ways.



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