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Is the Bible Part of a Great Conspiracy?
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reply to post by pieman
I am sorry, I did not answer your post. It was not done intentionally. Actually, I have done a tremendous amount of research on this. Go to my website down below if you want to check it out.
As I said in my post (or meant to say), it is conjecture but with some divine intervention. Like a spiritual awakening. If it has a ring of truth to you then I would give it some credence - otherwise, not.
thats a nice story matrixprophet, it reminds me of the greek and roman myths with a touch of scientology thrown in for good measure. by any chance, is your revelation based on anything besides one quote about god planting lies in the bible?
you obviously spent a long time thinking about this and writing your piece, surely it won't be difficult for you to flesh out your writing with some quotes or referances or details from the actual bible.
I am sorry, I did not answer your post. It was not done intentionally. Actually, I have done a tremendous amount of research on this. Go to my website down below if you want to check it out.
As I said in my post (or meant to say), it is conjecture but with some divine intervention. Like a spiritual awakening. If it has a ring of truth to you then I would give it some credence - otherwise, not.
reply to post by MatrixProphet
Disclaimer : You have been starred and thanks for showing me how!
As to ideas about "The Heavenly Congress RULES!" well first set of questions I have goes straight to is it a fair fight and if not why not ect and especially If not then who gets the Edge or advantage over the other. the 2nd set of questions I would ask is what the heck are they playing for ? Why is it so valuable and how the hell do I get my hands on some LOL. finally 3rd set of questions is whats taboo to do by either or both sides, how does either team score and whose refereeing?
Personal Disclosure: also as an Australian I have to subtly ask about whose keeping a book on the game and can I put a 5'er on the favorite to win.
Edited to add emoticon.
[edit on 28-4-2008 by OmegaLogos]
Disclaimer : You have been starred and thanks for showing me how!
As to ideas about "The Heavenly Congress RULES!" well first set of questions I have goes straight to is it a fair fight and if not why not ect and especially If not then who gets the Edge or advantage over the other. the 2nd set of questions I would ask is what the heck are they playing for ? Why is it so valuable and how the hell do I get my hands on some LOL. finally 3rd set of questions is whats taboo to do by either or both sides, how does either team score and whose refereeing?
Personal Disclosure: also as an Australian I have to subtly ask about whose keeping a book on the game and can I put a 5'er on the favorite to win.
Edited to add emoticon.
[edit on 28-4-2008 by OmegaLogos]
Originally posted by MatrixProphet
Do you want to be blind? I have my old pair of blinders I could sell you,
How would the bible being part of a conspiracy blind someone?
God cannot hide Himself, He is everywhere present.
No one is blind to His glory, it is self-evident.
The light of the living God cannot be overshadowed nor His fullness contained.
We all come to recognize God, and when we do we decide to approach and draw nearer to our creator or to look away and lose ourselves in His creation, we are without excuse.
Originally posted by MatrixProphet
Those who are deceiving out of an evil heart aren't fooling anyone but those who are receptive.
The receptive are not fooled they willingly participate, they have full knowledge of their own sin and share in the sin of others.
We are each and everyone of us living epistles known and read of all men.
What is written on your forehead?
The heart makes a thunderous noise, blowing a horn of warning or a sirens call to wickedness, is there any who cannot discern its sound?
If you spent years in some religion it was because of your own idiolatry, that thing which you desired above the truth of God.
Satan comes bearing gifs of great desire, bribes that blind the minds eye, who is fooled in the taking of it?
What is it that you saw in the religion which drew you to it and kept you in it for all those years?
Know your truth, we all must know our truth, in that great and dreadful day we will give our answer before the Judge in whom nothing is hid, and it will be finished.
[edit on 28-4-2008 by newday]
reply to post by OmegaLogos
Something that has bothered me for all of my life is this: why does the Almighty let Satan off the hook so much? How is he allowed to do bloody murder and he only gets his hand slapped (figuratively speaking)? I began to really question this the last dozen years and asked myself and others the question,"What is Satan holding over Jah?" I would reason that there had to be something, because it was like the biggest question of all time. What is going on between them that has allowed this to go on an on for eons? What is being hidden?
I believe I am starting to get some real answers. Not all of them, but a lot. Some of it I am not ready to expose until I have a clearer understanding.
The contest that is going on is acceptable to all in heavenly congress. To expose those who do not want Truth will be shown by the influence of Satan. This is his primary role. Dualism was created to divide the people so as to determine which side everyone would ultimately be on. So in this sense they all work together. Everyone knows that Jah will be the ultimate winner. That has never been questioned. Of course the Bible supports that.
Us! We are a big part of the Game. This is possibly the reason why all the controversy is here on Earth.
Of course this being conjecture: both teams play off each other's earthly players. This is why we as humans who are spiritually inclined feel a push - pull from them. Like we are being pulled by both. Where one takes off the other takes over. Do you understand what I am referring to? I would imagine that as far as the scoring and refereeing go, I have my own thoughts. What are yours?
I can talk and talk about this because it is fascinating to me, and I welcome other insights from everyone!
is it a fair fight and if not why not ect and especially If not then who gets the Edge or advantage over the other.
Something that has bothered me for all of my life is this: why does the Almighty let Satan off the hook so much? How is he allowed to do bloody murder and he only gets his hand slapped (figuratively speaking)? I began to really question this the last dozen years and asked myself and others the question,"What is Satan holding over Jah?" I would reason that there had to be something, because it was like the biggest question of all time. What is going on between them that has allowed this to go on an on for eons? What is being hidden?
I believe I am starting to get some real answers. Not all of them, but a lot. Some of it I am not ready to expose until I have a clearer understanding.
The contest that is going on is acceptable to all in heavenly congress. To expose those who do not want Truth will be shown by the influence of Satan. This is his primary role. Dualism was created to divide the people so as to determine which side everyone would ultimately be on. So in this sense they all work together. Everyone knows that Jah will be the ultimate winner. That has never been questioned. Of course the Bible supports that.
what the heck are they playing for ?
Us! We are a big part of the Game. This is possibly the reason why all the controversy is here on Earth.
whats taboo to do by either or both sides, how does either team score and whose refereeing?
Of course this being conjecture: both teams play off each other's earthly players. This is why we as humans who are spiritually inclined feel a push - pull from them. Like we are being pulled by both. Where one takes off the other takes over. Do you understand what I am referring to? I would imagine that as far as the scoring and refereeing go, I have my own thoughts. What are yours?
I can talk and talk about this because it is fascinating to me, and I welcome other insights from everyone!
reply to post by newday
Because the masses would be blinded by what others are teaching them regarding the Bible. The Bible is interpreted by everyone differently, yet they cannot all be right! Also, because it would take the focus off the real Jah and his messages and would transfer it onto religious dogma. The Bible and how it is written would assure that this would happen!
No, we don't. Those who actually come to recognize God, are few.
Not necessarily. Many are blinded, and or, do not care.
No, ignorance. When I listened to my heart and conscience, I left religion then, but only then. I desired the Truth of Jah but could not see it until I was ready. I was like most religious; there is a certain amount of brainwashing.
Complacency, familiarity, family, and consequences if I were to leave it, and the attachment of truth to the religion, or believing the lie; that the religion must be truth.
The rest of your text I no longer relate to as I am no longer religious, and so do not have the same viewpoints as you do. Nor do I have the same type of zeal, or religious frame of reference, ie; the mark on the forehead, living epistles, etc.
I have a sincere question for you! You sound like a former man of the cloth or a former nun. It sounds like you are trying to grow spiritually, but cannot leave off the rhetoric (religious speech). Or do you feel that the rhetoric is spiritual?
Another few questions for you; do you feel everyone is loved by God? Do you feel that all are good in their heart? Do you look for the love of Jesus in everyones heart? Do you believe in; once saved, always saved?
How would the bible being part of a conspiracy blind someone?
Because the masses would be blinded by what others are teaching them regarding the Bible. The Bible is interpreted by everyone differently, yet they cannot all be right! Also, because it would take the focus off the real Jah and his messages and would transfer it onto religious dogma. The Bible and how it is written would assure that this would happen!
We all come to recognize God
No, we don't. Those who actually come to recognize God, are few.
The receptive are not fooled they willingly participate, they have full knowledge of their own sin and share in the sin of others.
Not necessarily. Many are blinded, and or, do not care.
If you spent years in some religion it was because of your own idiolatry, that thing which you desired above the truth of God.
No, ignorance. When I listened to my heart and conscience, I left religion then, but only then. I desired the Truth of Jah but could not see it until I was ready. I was like most religious; there is a certain amount of brainwashing.
What is it that you saw in the religion which drew you to it and kept you in it for all those years?
Complacency, familiarity, family, and consequences if I were to leave it, and the attachment of truth to the religion, or believing the lie; that the religion must be truth.
The rest of your text I no longer relate to as I am no longer religious, and so do not have the same viewpoints as you do. Nor do I have the same type of zeal, or religious frame of reference, ie; the mark on the forehead, living epistles, etc.
I have a sincere question for you! You sound like a former man of the cloth or a former nun. It sounds like you are trying to grow spiritually, but cannot leave off the rhetoric (religious speech). Or do you feel that the rhetoric is spiritual?
Another few questions for you; do you feel everyone is loved by God? Do you feel that all are good in their heart? Do you look for the love of Jesus in everyones heart? Do you believe in; once saved, always saved?
reply to post by MatrixProphet
Disclaimer: Disclaimer : I'm a theist but not a Christian or follower of the Abrahamic faith. I have minor bible and scriptural knowledge in my opinion. Also I'm loving this thread very very much.
You say and I quote "Something that has bothered me for all of my life is this: why does the Almighty let Satan off the hook so much? How is he allowed to do bloody murder and he only gets his hand slapped (figuratively speaking)? I began to really question this the last dozen years and asked myself and others the question,"What is Satan holding over Jah?" I would reason that there had to be something, because it was like the biggest question of all time. What is going on between them that has allowed this to go on an on for eons? What is being hidden?". I answer these questions as follows....
A)why does the Almighty let Satan off the hook so much?...because maybe he's just the demi urge and isn't so mighty after all!
B)How is he allowed to do bloody murder and he only gets his hand slapped (figuratively speaking)?....because he is as powerful as GOD and who is going to make him stop immediately without an immediate all out war in heaven (or has that happened already?).
C)"What is Satan holding over Jah?"...that he's the demi urge and ain't so powerfull and mighty after all.
D)What is going on between them that has allowed this to go on an on for eons?....A disagreement over who of the two is more perfect and just how perfect they are (oh the vainity)!
and finally
D)What is being hidden?... isn't it obvious! It's the creators flaws that he doesn't want us to see! LOL!
you then state "I believe I am starting to get some real answers. Not all of them, but a lot. Some of it I am not ready to expose until I have a clearer understanding". I await them paitently.
I have a question because you say "The contest that is going on is acceptable to all in heavenly congress". Can you explain a little more on this bit please as I don't see SATAN agreeing to be Destroyed in a lake of fire or what do you think this is a metaphore for?
Also you say "Everyone knows that Jah will be the ultimate winner. That has never been questioned. Of course the Bible supports that". Well you/me/we don't really know, you have faith (don't you?) instead. 2ndly I Question it so its thats an end to that and 3rd of course it would as the demi urge is pushing it for all its worth to win his war and not be exposed as a fraud.
I Love the possibility that we are the treasure they are playing for as it makes me feel the power situation is changed as I could theoretically sell my soul to the highest bidder. Shame I hoard things and might just hoard my soul for myself.
And in ending to answer do I understand about the taboo thing?, Yes I do think I Do in that neither side is restricted from how they push or pull us but only push or pull according to their particular agenda and that at times one of them is at work and other times both! And about who is refereeing I would say the Holy Spirit because nothing is able to happen without it, EVER!, and about the score I suppose overall number of human souls converted and harvested upon death by eithers ideology!
Personal Disclosure: Thanks for engaging my post so thoughroughly
[edit on 29-4-2008 by OmegaLogos]
Disclaimer: Disclaimer : I'm a theist but not a Christian or follower of the Abrahamic faith. I have minor bible and scriptural knowledge in my opinion. Also I'm loving this thread very very much.
You say and I quote "Something that has bothered me for all of my life is this: why does the Almighty let Satan off the hook so much? How is he allowed to do bloody murder and he only gets his hand slapped (figuratively speaking)? I began to really question this the last dozen years and asked myself and others the question,"What is Satan holding over Jah?" I would reason that there had to be something, because it was like the biggest question of all time. What is going on between them that has allowed this to go on an on for eons? What is being hidden?". I answer these questions as follows....
A)why does the Almighty let Satan off the hook so much?...because maybe he's just the demi urge and isn't so mighty after all!
B)How is he allowed to do bloody murder and he only gets his hand slapped (figuratively speaking)?....because he is as powerful as GOD and who is going to make him stop immediately without an immediate all out war in heaven (or has that happened already?).
C)"What is Satan holding over Jah?"...that he's the demi urge and ain't so powerfull and mighty after all.
D)What is going on between them that has allowed this to go on an on for eons?....A disagreement over who of the two is more perfect and just how perfect they are (oh the vainity)!
and finally
D)What is being hidden?... isn't it obvious! It's the creators flaws that he doesn't want us to see! LOL!
you then state "I believe I am starting to get some real answers. Not all of them, but a lot. Some of it I am not ready to expose until I have a clearer understanding". I await them paitently.
I have a question because you say "The contest that is going on is acceptable to all in heavenly congress". Can you explain a little more on this bit please as I don't see SATAN agreeing to be Destroyed in a lake of fire or what do you think this is a metaphore for?
Also you say "Everyone knows that Jah will be the ultimate winner. That has never been questioned. Of course the Bible supports that". Well you/me/we don't really know, you have faith (don't you?) instead. 2ndly I Question it so its thats an end to that and 3rd of course it would as the demi urge is pushing it for all its worth to win his war and not be exposed as a fraud.
I Love the possibility that we are the treasure they are playing for as it makes me feel the power situation is changed as I could theoretically sell my soul to the highest bidder. Shame I hoard things and might just hoard my soul for myself.
And in ending to answer do I understand about the taboo thing?, Yes I do think I Do in that neither side is restricted from how they push or pull us but only push or pull according to their particular agenda and that at times one of them is at work and other times both! And about who is refereeing I would say the Holy Spirit because nothing is able to happen without it, EVER!, and about the score I suppose overall number of human souls converted and harvested upon death by eithers ideology!
Personal Disclosure: Thanks for engaging my post so thoughroughly
[edit on 29-4-2008 by OmegaLogos]
reply to post by OmegaLogos
You and I can solve all of the issues and I love it!! Thank you for your responses, I can continue it for as long as we like.
Ok, here it goes; I truly believe that Jah is the Almighty God. This is certainly a fact that he presents to me (at least he is in our universe, not speaking of other universes). It is certainly possible that he is in a family of Gods and he is in charge of ours. Perhaps he is also part of the experiment in regards to us and is being watched, to see how he and Jesus fair with lemmings, and our earth itself. We could actually be a test run! It has only been 6 days with the Gods, if we use scripture.
Here is where it gets sticky - I believe that there has been a Game going on in Heavenly Congress for all of mankind's history. I believed that Satan and Jah were adversaries all of my life....until, new information or light was given to me.
Satan is a God, so is Jesus and no doubt others. If we look to the pattern that man has always had, a leader with sub leaders, and a council, or congress, or parliament, it should not surprise us that it would first have taken place in heaven before earth. Heavenly Congress would be the template that all earthly lemmings would follow, as we are made in their image.
If we are to understand this, we need to understand how we fit their agenda. To create a superior, advanced society of humans they needed to create friction. How so? I learn the most when under severe stress and learn how to let-go under these times also. It has created in me a strong spiritual attitude and willingness. I am willing to go to any length. I have been through hell and back. So relatively speaking I am spiritually fit. But I also had to be willing to go to any lengths. That is the test!
It is easy to grow spiritually if one has an easy life. Put challenges in the lemmings lives and lets see how they do! Resistance is not futile when it comes from the Gods, and we in turn learn from it. It makes us a stronger individual and then in turn, society. Satan needed to volunteer to take on this role! One being; the resister to test the integrity of man otherwise they would never know where each individual stood. Like cars are tested and tested before they are released to the public. Manufacturers look for problems and then weed them out. Make sense?
In in the last couple of years and with much resistance on my part, I now realize that they both - Jah and Satan are going for the same goal, refinement of the fittest. They set up a Game or contest and are playing the roles of opposition to each other and in reality are possibly on the same team!! So they created the illusion of dualism! This is not to say that there has not been rebellion with Satan's cohorts. Mankind is quite malleable and can be led astray fairly easily with sin incorporated into our DNA from the beginning. So we are fighting against a predisposition in our make-up.
The other side of the coin is this; they were on the same team for most of mankind's history and then had a falling out which of course created a war which is called Armageddon of which is already taking place. But that is for another thread.
Both alternatives would answer the relationship with Satan and Jah with Jesus. It does not seem an acceptable one, but I fear, is the real one.
You and I can solve all of the issues and I love it!! Thank you for your responses, I can continue it for as long as we like.
Ok, here it goes; I truly believe that Jah is the Almighty God. This is certainly a fact that he presents to me (at least he is in our universe, not speaking of other universes). It is certainly possible that he is in a family of Gods and he is in charge of ours. Perhaps he is also part of the experiment in regards to us and is being watched, to see how he and Jesus fair with lemmings, and our earth itself. We could actually be a test run! It has only been 6 days with the Gods, if we use scripture.
Here is where it gets sticky - I believe that there has been a Game going on in Heavenly Congress for all of mankind's history. I believed that Satan and Jah were adversaries all of my life....until, new information or light was given to me.
Satan is a God, so is Jesus and no doubt others. If we look to the pattern that man has always had, a leader with sub leaders, and a council, or congress, or parliament, it should not surprise us that it would first have taken place in heaven before earth. Heavenly Congress would be the template that all earthly lemmings would follow, as we are made in their image.
If we are to understand this, we need to understand how we fit their agenda. To create a superior, advanced society of humans they needed to create friction. How so? I learn the most when under severe stress and learn how to let-go under these times also. It has created in me a strong spiritual attitude and willingness. I am willing to go to any length. I have been through hell and back. So relatively speaking I am spiritually fit. But I also had to be willing to go to any lengths. That is the test!
It is easy to grow spiritually if one has an easy life. Put challenges in the lemmings lives and lets see how they do! Resistance is not futile when it comes from the Gods, and we in turn learn from it. It makes us a stronger individual and then in turn, society. Satan needed to volunteer to take on this role! One being; the resister to test the integrity of man otherwise they would never know where each individual stood. Like cars are tested and tested before they are released to the public. Manufacturers look for problems and then weed them out. Make sense?
In in the last couple of years and with much resistance on my part, I now realize that they both - Jah and Satan are going for the same goal, refinement of the fittest. They set up a Game or contest and are playing the roles of opposition to each other and in reality are possibly on the same team!! So they created the illusion of dualism! This is not to say that there has not been rebellion with Satan's cohorts. Mankind is quite malleable and can be led astray fairly easily with sin incorporated into our DNA from the beginning. So we are fighting against a predisposition in our make-up.
The other side of the coin is this; they were on the same team for most of mankind's history and then had a falling out which of course created a war which is called Armageddon of which is already taking place. But that is for another thread.
Both alternatives would answer the relationship with Satan and Jah with Jesus. It does not seem an acceptable one, but I fear, is the real one.
Originally posted by MatrixProphet
Because the masses would be blinded by what others are teaching them regarding the Bible.
If God is real, and a man knows God, it is impossible for the man to be blind?
It doesn't matter what the man is taught to his face, God teaches to the heart.
Do you not believe God is real and that He leads a man from the heart?
Originally posted by MatrixProphet
The Bible is interpreted by everyone differently.
Doesn't that prove my point that it doesn't matter what other people teach in a religion.
It doesn't even matter what they do, an individual believes what he decides to believe, regardless of what his religion teaches.
People say the same about the media that they mislead the masses, they are in control of our direction, it is a conspiracy to deceive us all..
The people who say those things are in a kind of religion, one of their own making like yourself, they want to believe such things so they do.
You can not control what a person believes even if you are the only one telling him what to think.
People are not deceived, if they are a part of a religion that is attempting to deceive it is because they wilfully participate, they know if God is a part of it or not.
Ask an atheist what he would need to see to know if God were part of a religion.
I will bet he could give you an answer to that question?
If you don't see any proof of God then you know God is not a part of something, it is that simple.
If you still want to believe God is in your religion, even though you don't have any proof, then you are not being deceived you are a willful participant.
Originally posted by MatrixProphet
The rest of your text I no longer relate to as I am no longer religious.
This is not correct you are very religious you just don't want to admit that.
I have read most of what you have posted and you talk about this Jah thing in nearly every post.
Just ask others if they think you are religious or not don't take my word for it.
It may be we understand religion differently
I view God as being real, I fully accept the existence of a creator, I do not believe He is imaginary, whereas others think of God as only a philosophical concept or as a construct of the mind of man, even most who say they believe in His existence at best are only mentally accenting to it.
If a tree exists in reality and I believe in the existence of a tree is that a religion?
If God exists in reality, that is if it is true that there is a creator, then having or not having a religion is meaningless, or to put it in my way of speaking and understanding, neither circumcision nor un-circumcision prevails over anything.
Having a religion or not having a religion does not give you the power of God to prevail over circumstance.
As human beings we have within our design the ability to be spiritual, it is part of our nature, we can do it just the same as we can eat, drink, or sleep.
I would even argue, as many before me have done, that we need to exercise ourselves spiritually even more than physically in a lot of our daily affairs.
If a person does the things which are within his power to do is he being religious or is he simply living his life?
Originally posted by MatrixProphet
I do not have the same viewpoints as you do. Nor do I have the same type of zeal, or religious frame of reference, ie; the mark on the forehead, living epistles, etc.
So what, I don't have the same viewpoint as you, your type of zeal, or religious frame of reference, that is why I am engaging you in this conversation.
Lacking all of those things you nevertheless understood what I was saying.
If you could get over yourself there would be a much better exchange of ideas.
If you don't like the way I say things that is your problem.
I am pointing out that your position, that the bible is part of a religious conspiracy, even if correct, stands a high chance of being meaningless in terms of the conspirators ability to use it to deceive anyone.
Because, if God exists in truth, if there is a creator, then it is impossible for any human being who is conscious not to be aware of that fact, regardless of the amount of information they may or may not be exposed to from either the religious or the secular world.
Originally posted by MatrixProphet
I have a sincere question for you! You sound like a former man of the cloth or a former nun. It sounds like you are trying to grow spiritually, but cannot leave off the rhetoric (religious speech). Or do you feel that the rhetoric is spiritual?
The rhetoric as you call is what it is.
I personally find the way I speak plain and disappointing, it only appears religious to some, because I draw on lots of words and phrases from the bible.
The ideas I am conveying are just that ideas, nothing religious about them, except of course to the mind of those who think that if you quote the bible or use a figure of speech from the scripture, then somehow that is being religious.
Originally posted by MatrixProphet
Another few questions for you; do you feel everyone is loved by God?
Yes everyone is loved by God, but not everyone is of His seed.
In rhetoric translation that means as we are born bio-logically from a seed of a man, in the same way spiritually the seed of the creator is not in all of us.
Just as I am not physically the father of everyone born on earth, God is not spiritually either.
Originally posted by MatrixProphet
Do you feel that all are good in their heart?
We all carry in our hearts the potential for unlimited good in the flesh and unlimited evil in the flesh at the same time and in the same place.
Originally posted by MatrixProphet
Do you look for the love of Jesus in everyones heart?
I look for the truth of God, I see truth, at least what I find of it, as my authority to go on with things, I do not look for authority to be my truth.
God leads me to certain people, certain people are led to me sometimes, and other times it is chance and violence.
The idea that is often conveyed today in the phrase, "love of Jesus," is part of a conspiracy to deny true spirituality and the first part of a spell used to open the mind for demonic possession.
It is the love of Jesus of the bible that all men would be one with God in our hearts as he is one with God in his heart.
The love of God is manifested in the birth, death, resurrection, and ascension of a Messiah, and in the evidencing of the gifts of God.
The love of God is not an emotional state but a spiritual one, one that we should not look for in others but in ourselves.
Originally posted by MatrixProphet
Do you believe in; once saved, always saved?
I believe a seed is a seed.
If you are the seed of God then you will grow and bear the fruit of God, if not then you will not.
Belief and dis-belief do not effect the equation, it either is or it is not.
If you believe you are saved, but do not have the seed of God, it does not matter what you believe.
If you do not believe you are saved, but have the seed of God, it does not matter what you believe.
The idea of, "once saved always saved," like most all religious teachings, has been altered to mean things contrary to sound principals, in much the same way the idea of the, "love of Jesus," was.
Both concepts work as doctrines for devils, bringing God down to our level of flesh and blood, offering people guilt free excuses to enjoy a concord with satan.
reply to post by newday
I don't believe it is as simple as that. The Bible also says that the heart is treacherous (Satan also works through our heart), so wisdom is essential, would you not agree? But essentially we agree.
If I hear you right; either a person is chosen or they are not. Am I correct? Although I believe in free will, I also think there is much truth in that. But am I hearing you correctly? Do you not believe that God gave us free will?
Because of free will - man can be mislead. Now it is up to the individual as to how long a person is mislead. My experience has been; God will lead me down a certain road but allows me my free will. Using my free will I may go off track and take my will back and go against his spirit. I generally knew I was doing so. The road back often had rough consequences. While I am much more in tune to him now, I don't fight it because I don't like the consequences, nor the time it takes to get back on track.
A person can be manipulated by both Gods at the same time. Not all are aware of this. I work with many who are trying to get acquainted with Jah and have a difficult time. Separating religion from God can be difficult.
Spirituality is a sensory thing not so much - informational. Meaning; being very attuned to ones senses in relation to God. I think we agree here? Information even Biblical can divert a person from direct contact with God. Although, the Bible means a great deal to me, I do not commune with God through the Bible. That is me!
I have worked with many to develop a one on one conscious contact with God. Not as a go-between but as an teacher, spiritual healer. If a person is inundated with shame they may be "a seed" as you call them but cannot penetrate their shame and grow spiritually until they do so. Often a person has a feeling related to God but doesn't know how to process it. God has always used teachers and prophets. Not all know how to read a message and apply it. Some get misled in the process and lose out.
Spirituality can also entail living life on life's terms and learning to dispense with human defects that conflict with growth. It is very difficult to grow spiritually if one is an active addict, for instance, because the addiction becomes the God. I have known many that try to connect spiritually and all the while are smoking weed. They are entrapped! So yes, people can most definitely be misled. This is why the Bible spoke of a wolf in sheep's clothing entering into a persons house and misleading those within.
I no longer take the Bible as literal as I use to. Also, you will find that I am a realist. I make a definite separation between religion and spirituality. You hear me talk about Jah a lot because He is a big part of my life. I just do not do any ritualistic worship of him, religion is a lot about ritual. I cannot think of any religion that does not implement ritual, can you?
We actually could be agreeing on many of our conversations but both have a different way of expressing it, I am fine with that. You speak with a lot more poetic phrasing while I am more nitty gritty!
If God is real, and a man knows God, it is impossible for the man to be blind?
It doesn't matter what the man is taught to his face, God teaches to the heart.
Do you not believe God is real and that He leads a man from the heart?
I don't believe it is as simple as that. The Bible also says that the heart is treacherous (Satan also works through our heart), so wisdom is essential, would you not agree? But essentially we agree.
If I hear you right; either a person is chosen or they are not. Am I correct? Although I believe in free will, I also think there is much truth in that. But am I hearing you correctly? Do you not believe that God gave us free will?
Because of free will - man can be mislead. Now it is up to the individual as to how long a person is mislead. My experience has been; God will lead me down a certain road but allows me my free will. Using my free will I may go off track and take my will back and go against his spirit. I generally knew I was doing so. The road back often had rough consequences. While I am much more in tune to him now, I don't fight it because I don't like the consequences, nor the time it takes to get back on track.
A person can be manipulated by both Gods at the same time. Not all are aware of this. I work with many who are trying to get acquainted with Jah and have a difficult time. Separating religion from God can be difficult.
Spirituality is a sensory thing not so much - informational. Meaning; being very attuned to ones senses in relation to God. I think we agree here? Information even Biblical can divert a person from direct contact with God. Although, the Bible means a great deal to me, I do not commune with God through the Bible. That is me!
I have worked with many to develop a one on one conscious contact with God. Not as a go-between but as an teacher, spiritual healer. If a person is inundated with shame they may be "a seed" as you call them but cannot penetrate their shame and grow spiritually until they do so. Often a person has a feeling related to God but doesn't know how to process it. God has always used teachers and prophets. Not all know how to read a message and apply it. Some get misled in the process and lose out.
Spirituality can also entail living life on life's terms and learning to dispense with human defects that conflict with growth. It is very difficult to grow spiritually if one is an active addict, for instance, because the addiction becomes the God. I have known many that try to connect spiritually and all the while are smoking weed. They are entrapped! So yes, people can most definitely be misled. This is why the Bible spoke of a wolf in sheep's clothing entering into a persons house and misleading those within.
I no longer take the Bible as literal as I use to. Also, you will find that I am a realist. I make a definite separation between religion and spirituality. You hear me talk about Jah a lot because He is a big part of my life. I just do not do any ritualistic worship of him, religion is a lot about ritual. I cannot think of any religion that does not implement ritual, can you?
We actually could be agreeing on many of our conversations but both have a different way of expressing it, I am fine with that. You speak with a lot more poetic phrasing while I am more nitty gritty!
Originally posted by MatrixProphet
The Bible also says that the heart is treacherous (Satan also works through our heart),
A man may be confused in his heart, but God is not the author of confusion, and if a person is confused it is because they seek something other than the truth.
Satan works by shaping our beliefs through our perceptions, our five senses, in the circumstances of our life the sights we see the sounds we hear.
The devil must convince a person of a lie to keep them enslaved to his will, because belief is required to manifest spiritual power whether if it is holy or unholy, and no man can escape the prison we are born into of this world without the manifestation of spiritual power.
A person must believe something to be true, or that is for Satan to keep the dream alive and hold power over your consciousness till you die, you must become fully persuaded with regard to some spiritual issue, which you are first exposed to from somewhere outside the body.
We must believe for God to work in our life, the same is true for His adversary, and we convince ourselves of a thing either through our own arguments in the privacy of our thoughts or the arguments of others.
For example say we persuaded ourselves that God is Jesus or that there is life after death, then Satan has a willing disciple or a work in progress in us so to speak, with which to assets in bringing the Devils reality and will into manifestation from heaven into our individual life and collectively into the whole of the world.
Our life becomes a glory to Satan and the Devil, because of our belief of the lie, just as our life can become a glory to God by belief in the truth..
There is a difference between mental accent and belief, thank God that most of us only mentally accent to such polluted ideas as the trinity at this present time.
God exists and every human being who is conscious is aware of that fact, that truth cannot be hidden form any man.
What we do is look for excuses, we lie to ourselves and others, moving our consciousness further and further away from the light of God, no man is deceived, we all go willingly when we decide to entertain the temptations that come at us from Satan and the Devil through this world.
Do you think that any one of us is going to be allowed an excuse to deny the truth of God in the day of judgement?
Will a man be able to say, "my religion deceived me?"
What we believe we receive.
What we bind on earth is bound in heaven and what we release on earth is released in heaven.
Belief is one of the three abiding laws of our time which transcends both realities, ours and the spiritual.
Most people do not understand or see belief as a law enforced by God and the spiritual, but we all would die without it and the world would come to an end, because in order to avoid being manipulated by Satan someone must believe he exists, just as in order for the will of God to be done on earth someone must believe God exists.
You can tell when a man is not fully persuaded of the existence of God but only mentally accents to the idea, when they do not accept Satan as real, because in order to know of Satan and his workings you must believe God who reveals him.
This is why in my opinion it is easy to see that Christians are among the most godless people on earth today, very few of them know anything of the Devil or Satan, and the Jesus of the bible not the one of the trinity, that is the one the bible claims to be the Christ, the Messiah, he was manifested for the purpose of destroying the works of the Devil.
If you believe the dead are alive or that Jesus is God then your life is a denial of everything God has done to liberate you from the works of Satan and the Devil..
The people who claim the Christian religion as their own, do they destroy the works of the devil or do they facilitate them?
Religion, no matter how purposefully organized to deceive, it can never suffice as an excuse for an individual to deny the truth, regardless how dark the night the light of God is always on.
We can have dueling bible versus if you like, here is a good one to illustrate my point.
Mt 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Many today profess the name Jesus as if that means something, but I tell you now that if a man believes in his heart that Jesus is God that man is not deceived by a religion, he is a willful worker of iniquity knowing the truth but preferring the lie, desiring the pleasure of sin for a season over the pleasures of the presence and company of God.
Everyone knows the truth when they want to, at anytime and in anyplace, that is why the truth is not commercially viable, and most likely good to get you killed, but lies can make you rich as a king in this world and get your name praised and professed for an hundred generations.
People in themselves can know the truth of a matter, and they understand that, but knowing the truth is not always at any given point in a persons life what they are interested in, so whenever we participate in these dead religions, it is not because we are deceived into it, bewitched perhaps, but not deceived.
If you want to talk about sorcery and a person under a spell or curse, OK that is a kind of deception, I will give you that, but it can't work unless the person is willing and prepared.
Originally posted by MatrixProphet
I don't believe it is as simple as that, so wisdom is essential, would you not agree?
I do not agree, belief is essential and that is as simple as it gets.
There is a great simplicity in God which is profound.
Take wisdom for instance, you say that the bible is part of a conspiracy to deceive by denying wisdom and or knowledge, but God denies no man anything, indeed the Glory of God is made manifest in our weaknesses and lack when we turn to Him freely for help.
Even if there were no bible written, if a man believes God then the man has complete access to any all the wisdom he may need, and the scriptures themselves even make this point.
Jas 1:4 - 7
But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.
If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and reviles not; and it shall be given him. But let him ask in believing, without waves of doubt,. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed. For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord.
True believers don't need the bible to have wisdom or knowledge, God can give us all the wisdom we lack at anytime we need it if we ask Him in believing.
So I ask you, if the bible is part of a conspiracy to deceive people from God, then how could it possibly work if people who believe God don't even need the bible to have the wisdom and knowledge of God given to them?
Don't misunderstand me I love the bible, I just do not see how anyone can be deceived by the bible period, whether it was written as part of a conspiracy or not.
If a person has a sincere heart for God, then they can have the truth revealed directly to their consciousness, so I don't see how anything can deceive the honest believer not even the devil himself?
I will state this one more time just to make sure you get where I am coming from.
If God exist in truth, if He is all powerful and everywhere in the present moment of time all the time, then it is literally impossible for anyone who is conscious not to be aware of that fact.
Personally I see this as the case, but lots of people decide to ignore the presence and reality of God in their life, they choose to tell themselves what they want to hear instead of the truth until they believe their own lies deceiving themselves first, and then maybe they get deceived by others after that..
reply to post by newday
I will add this; I am the most teachable when I am confused. It can be a good spiritual state to be in. We are more open to possibilities. As long as one examines what they are taking in - it can be a good state for a while. Also, we then tend to get more out of self, too.
Yes, but at times it is necessary to let-go and let-God until a new message is understood. But I agree, senses are vital!
Very true, that is why I speak of The Lie a lot! Satan has the majority of mankind due to this enigma that runs through all of society.
Their will be much weeping and gnashing of the teeth.
In this I call them deceived whether by intent (they choose to buy the Lie) or wanting to be blind.
Satan can be an angel of light.
Solomon always prayed for wisdom. It helps to assuage overt emotionalism.
Ditto.
Again...it is to separate the peoples!
Millions are!
Regardless of where a person gets deceived or the reasons why...it will not help anyone who chooses to stay in that state! Jah is available for anyone who cares to connect with him. Those that choose not to, will suffer the consequences.
A man may be confused in his heart, but God is not the author of confusion, and if a person is confused it is because they seek something other than the truth.
I will add this; I am the most teachable when I am confused. It can be a good spiritual state to be in. We are more open to possibilities. As long as one examines what they are taking in - it can be a good state for a while. Also, we then tend to get more out of self, too.
A person must believe something to be true, or that is for Satan to keep the dream alive and hold power over your consciousness till you die, you must become fully persuaded with regard to some spiritual issue, which you are first exposed to from somewhere outside the body.
Yes, but at times it is necessary to let-go and let-God until a new message is understood. But I agree, senses are vital!
Our life becomes a glory to Satan and the Devil, because of our belief of the lie, just as our life can become a glory to God by belief in the truth..
Very true, that is why I speak of The Lie a lot! Satan has the majority of mankind due to this enigma that runs through all of society.
Do you think that any one of us is going to be allowed an excuse to deny the truth of God in the day of judgement?
Their will be much weeping and gnashing of the teeth.
This is why in my opinion it is easy to see that Christians are among the most godless people on earth today, very few of them know anything of the Devil or Satan, and the Jesus of the bible not the one of the trinity, that is the one the bible claims to be the Christ, the Messiah, he was manifested for the purpose of destroying the works of the Devil.
In this I call them deceived whether by intent (they choose to buy the Lie) or wanting to be blind.
The people who claim the Christian religion as their own, do they destroy the works of the devil or do they facilitate them?
Satan can be an angel of light.
I do not agree, belief is essential and that is as simple as it gets.
Solomon always prayed for wisdom. It helps to assuage overt emotionalism.
True believers don't need the bible to have wisdom or knowledge, God can give us all the wisdom we lack at anytime we need it if we ask Him in believing.
Ditto.
So I ask you, if the bible is part of a conspiracy to deceive people from God, then how could it possibly work if people who believe God don't even need the bible to have the wisdom and knowledge of God given to them?
Again...it is to separate the peoples!
I just do not see how anyone can be deceived by the bible period, whether it was written as part of a conspiracy or not.
Millions are!
Regardless of where a person gets deceived or the reasons why...it will not help anyone who chooses to stay in that state! Jah is available for anyone who cares to connect with him. Those that choose not to, will suffer the consequences.
reply to post by OmegaLogos
You asked me for some possible Game Rules. Here are a few possibilities and you can add some that you think of;
This is obviously conjecture!
1. Fate is an illusion. The Gods can change a direction of a lemmings life if it suits their purpose and or if the person is fulfilling a predetermined role.
2. Each God must have limitations put on each, as to what is acceptable. What is allowable by Congress?
3. Cat and mouse pursuits are acceptable, pushing and pulling until one or another yells Uncle! Each God may attempt to influence any lemming as long as it stays within perimeter of rules. They each have stratagems to work in their favor.
4. Lemmings will have categories they fit in as well. Each God may choose whomever they want to fitting whatever Game Piece: pawns, rooks, knights, bishops, queens or kings. Each piece will be used at the discretion of the God.
5. Disguises and magical power may be used.
6. Satan is allowed the power to dispense with someone's life but within a frugal diet (for assuredly he would be a glutton). He may not be allowed to influence the deaths of many without congressional permission.
7. Satan is allowed the opportunity and is even welcomed to disguise himself as the Almighty, and as an angel of light, so as to deceive the masses.
8. Jah and congress can vote against an attempted action on the part of the devil if it is going too far in their estimation.
9. Only Jah determines the end of the Game.
10. "Where there are choices, there are consequences." This would be a thread that would flow throughout the playing of the Game. This rule would not only apply to man sometimes to their detriment, but most assuredly to Satan and his helpers. Man will have the choice to; develop his God given conscience to the fullest or he can be like the devil and spurn it!
...Obviously I am using human reasoning in defining these rules. They are what I have observed for a long time. I believe that the rules have changed because we are living in a detrimental time for humans and the "end of times."
You asked me for some possible Game Rules. Here are a few possibilities and you can add some that you think of;
This is obviously conjecture!
1. Fate is an illusion. The Gods can change a direction of a lemmings life if it suits their purpose and or if the person is fulfilling a predetermined role.
2. Each God must have limitations put on each, as to what is acceptable. What is allowable by Congress?
3. Cat and mouse pursuits are acceptable, pushing and pulling until one or another yells Uncle! Each God may attempt to influence any lemming as long as it stays within perimeter of rules. They each have stratagems to work in their favor.
4. Lemmings will have categories they fit in as well. Each God may choose whomever they want to fitting whatever Game Piece: pawns, rooks, knights, bishops, queens or kings. Each piece will be used at the discretion of the God.
5. Disguises and magical power may be used.
6. Satan is allowed the power to dispense with someone's life but within a frugal diet (for assuredly he would be a glutton). He may not be allowed to influence the deaths of many without congressional permission.
7. Satan is allowed the opportunity and is even welcomed to disguise himself as the Almighty, and as an angel of light, so as to deceive the masses.
8. Jah and congress can vote against an attempted action on the part of the devil if it is going too far in their estimation.
9. Only Jah determines the end of the Game.
10. "Where there are choices, there are consequences." This would be a thread that would flow throughout the playing of the Game. This rule would not only apply to man sometimes to their detriment, but most assuredly to Satan and his helpers. Man will have the choice to; develop his God given conscience to the fullest or he can be like the devil and spurn it!
...Obviously I am using human reasoning in defining these rules. They are what I have observed for a long time. I believe that the rules have changed because we are living in a detrimental time for humans and the "end of times."
reply to post by MatrixProphet
Disclaimer: I'm a theist but not of the Abrahamic faiths. I have minor biblical scholar and scriptural skills. ALSO! I've had computer troubles for past fortnight and haven't posted since then and so I apologize for any inconvenience caused by this delay (it appears I've been logged in all this time OMG!).
MatrixProphet you state and I quote "Ok, here it goes; I truly believe that Jah is the Almighty God. This is certainly a fact that he presents to me (at least he is in our universe, not speaking of other universes). It is certainly possible that he is in a family of Gods and he is in charge of ours. Perhaps he is also part of the experiment in regards to us and is being watched, to see how he and Jesus fair with lemmings, and our earth itself. We could actually be a test run! It has only been 6 days with the Gods, if we use scripture." and I will not argue with you on these points just yet and just accept the
possibility that Jah is the Almighty and is running the show. You then say this is where things can get sticky and I think thats ok as its the friction you refer to lower in your post.
Next you make the claim about us being in the image of them (i.e the GODs) that we and I quote "we need to understand how we fit their agenda" and this inspires me to ask you to what degree do you see us actually fitting their agenda? BTW I appreciated how you elaborated on how so!
Personal Disclosure: Finally you elaborate on Satan and I would love you to try and answer the question I posed to you in an earlier post about him and the Lake of Fire thing as I'm sure I wouldn't volunteer to be killed and if this is the case is this one thing where we can say a fallen angel died for us (to refine us better by testing us against GODs/Jahs rules). Does this make Satan a saint or redeemed in your POV?
P.S. I'm replying ASAP to your next reply to me on the GAME RULES in follow up post below. Thanks for clarifying those POVs you currently hold.
Disclaimer: I'm a theist but not of the Abrahamic faiths. I have minor biblical scholar and scriptural skills. ALSO! I've had computer troubles for past fortnight and haven't posted since then and so I apologize for any inconvenience caused by this delay (it appears I've been logged in all this time OMG!).
MatrixProphet you state and I quote "Ok, here it goes; I truly believe that Jah is the Almighty God. This is certainly a fact that he presents to me (at least he is in our universe, not speaking of other universes). It is certainly possible that he is in a family of Gods and he is in charge of ours. Perhaps he is also part of the experiment in regards to us and is being watched, to see how he and Jesus fair with lemmings, and our earth itself. We could actually be a test run! It has only been 6 days with the Gods, if we use scripture." and I will not argue with you on these points just yet and just accept the
possibility that Jah is the Almighty and is running the show. You then say this is where things can get sticky and I think thats ok as its the friction you refer to lower in your post.
Next you make the claim about us being in the image of them (i.e the GODs) that we and I quote "we need to understand how we fit their agenda" and this inspires me to ask you to what degree do you see us actually fitting their agenda? BTW I appreciated how you elaborated on how so!
Personal Disclosure: Finally you elaborate on Satan and I would love you to try and answer the question I posed to you in an earlier post about him and the Lake of Fire thing as I'm sure I wouldn't volunteer to be killed and if this is the case is this one thing where we can say a fallen angel died for us (to refine us better by testing us against GODs/Jahs rules). Does this make Satan a saint or redeemed in your POV?
P.S. I'm replying ASAP to your next reply to me on the GAME RULES in follow up post below. Thanks for clarifying those POVs you currently hold.
Step 1) Create a mythological framework which teaches people to relinquish responsibility, and place trust and faith in a figurative leader. This
will teach people to submit to authority, and have them stand idle waiting for a savior when things get bad, rather than stand up for themselves.
Make it similar to local legends so the people will swallow it more easily.
Step 2) Include in that mythology the warning that to examine any other religious idea is to expose your soul to danger. This way the people won't take time to examine the similarities between the different religions, and realize they probably came from a similar source.
Step 3) Include in that mythology the idea that to fight or kill believers in a religion of a different label is a good thing, and willed by God. (As if God didn't have the strength to fight infidels on his own!)
Step 4) Use the differences in belief systems to pit the populations against each other, to increase your level of control over them by making them relatively weaker.
Step 5) Threaten those who do not believe the story with a punishment more horrific than anything imaginable in this life. This will ensure a large number of "believers". (Why would God need to threaten us in order to get us to accept his love???)
It's been a pretty effective tool for the powers-that-be. Disgusting.
www.evilbible.com...
jordanmaxwell.com...
www.zeitgeistmovie.com...
[edit on 10-5-2008 by ianr5741]
Step 2) Include in that mythology the warning that to examine any other religious idea is to expose your soul to danger. This way the people won't take time to examine the similarities between the different religions, and realize they probably came from a similar source.
Step 3) Include in that mythology the idea that to fight or kill believers in a religion of a different label is a good thing, and willed by God. (As if God didn't have the strength to fight infidels on his own!)
Step 4) Use the differences in belief systems to pit the populations against each other, to increase your level of control over them by making them relatively weaker.
Step 5) Threaten those who do not believe the story with a punishment more horrific than anything imaginable in this life. This will ensure a large number of "believers". (Why would God need to threaten us in order to get us to accept his love???)
It's been a pretty effective tool for the powers-that-be. Disgusting.
www.evilbible.com...
jordanmaxwell.com...
www.zeitgeistmovie.com...
[edit on 10-5-2008 by ianr5741]
reply to post by MatrixProphet
Disclaimer: I'm a theist but not of the Abrahamic faiths. I have minor biblical scholar and scriptural skills. ALSO! I've had computer troubles for past fortnight and haven't posted since then and so I apologize for any inconvenience caused by this delay (it appears I've been logged in all this time OMG!).
MatrixProphet your disclaimer that this is obviously conjecture was a very nice touch. Well Done!
Ah the meat and the bone together, I'm looking forward to savoring these POVs so here goes. 1stly I made a comment early that I thought the Referee was the Holy Spirit as I was under assumption that nothing could happen without it but then I read somewhere on this forum several times that the Holy Spirit is not everywhere at all times and so this discounts it in my eyes so I will defer to your view that GOD/Jah is the referee but this causes moral problems for us lemmings (from our POV, not theirs I assume) and causes me to suggest that existance is like a factory production line of lemmings who are all designed,built and then tested to the Nth degree before those with a passing grade are distributed from the factory and possibly "Sold!" to prospective buyers. Basically We're not of the factory floor yet and the dead are in storage awaiting sale. Now on to your points.....
1) Fate is an illusion.....No problems but do us lemmings get a say in our own destiny and not just our competing GODs? Could we be beyond the perimeters of either sides influence?
2)Each God must have limitations put on each, as to what is acceptable. What is allowable by Congress? .....what are Jahs limits as he's both CEO and Referee and whats isn't acceptable to him? Doesn't he overule the congress at all times?
3)They each have stratagems to work in their favor..... I'm in favor of discussing these stratagems types and merits here or in another thread
4)Lemmings will have categories they fit in as well. Each God may choose whomever they want to fitting whatever Game Piece: pawns, rooks, knights, bishops, queens or kings. Each piece will be used at the discretion of the God.......I would argue we are all pawns but some have delusions of grandure LOL. Most men in an army are privates. sure you got officers but really wouldn't the GODs reserve those positions for themselves?
5)Disguises and magical power may be used......I have no argument against this for either or both sides.
6)Satan is allowed the power to dispense with someone's life but within a frugal diet (for assuredly he would be a glutton). He may not be allowed to influence the deaths of many without congressional permission.......Again I agree but suggest at this point maybe the congress is the Referee as someone will always be watching (i.e a self policing system).
7) & 8) I agree here with you on these points that you make.
penultimately No#9)Only Jah determines the end of the Game......I believe this is wrong but need to formulate why I feel and think that way so I will get back to you on that.
finally No#10)Man will have the choice to; develop his God given conscience to the fullest or he can be like the devil and spurn it!....Here I believe we are not "like" the Devil/Satan but are only following his deception.
Personal Disclosure: I now have your website address and will visit it ASAP. Thanks heaps.
Disclaimer: I'm a theist but not of the Abrahamic faiths. I have minor biblical scholar and scriptural skills. ALSO! I've had computer troubles for past fortnight and haven't posted since then and so I apologize for any inconvenience caused by this delay (it appears I've been logged in all this time OMG!).
MatrixProphet your disclaimer that this is obviously conjecture was a very nice touch. Well Done!
Ah the meat and the bone together, I'm looking forward to savoring these POVs so here goes. 1stly I made a comment early that I thought the Referee was the Holy Spirit as I was under assumption that nothing could happen without it but then I read somewhere on this forum several times that the Holy Spirit is not everywhere at all times and so this discounts it in my eyes so I will defer to your view that GOD/Jah is the referee but this causes moral problems for us lemmings (from our POV, not theirs I assume) and causes me to suggest that existance is like a factory production line of lemmings who are all designed,built and then tested to the Nth degree before those with a passing grade are distributed from the factory and possibly "Sold!" to prospective buyers. Basically We're not of the factory floor yet and the dead are in storage awaiting sale. Now on to your points.....
1) Fate is an illusion.....No problems but do us lemmings get a say in our own destiny and not just our competing GODs? Could we be beyond the perimeters of either sides influence?
2)Each God must have limitations put on each, as to what is acceptable. What is allowable by Congress? .....what are Jahs limits as he's both CEO and Referee and whats isn't acceptable to him? Doesn't he overule the congress at all times?
3)They each have stratagems to work in their favor..... I'm in favor of discussing these stratagems types and merits here or in another thread
4)Lemmings will have categories they fit in as well. Each God may choose whomever they want to fitting whatever Game Piece: pawns, rooks, knights, bishops, queens or kings. Each piece will be used at the discretion of the God.......I would argue we are all pawns but some have delusions of grandure LOL. Most men in an army are privates. sure you got officers but really wouldn't the GODs reserve those positions for themselves?
5)Disguises and magical power may be used......I have no argument against this for either or both sides.
6)Satan is allowed the power to dispense with someone's life but within a frugal diet (for assuredly he would be a glutton). He may not be allowed to influence the deaths of many without congressional permission.......Again I agree but suggest at this point maybe the congress is the Referee as someone will always be watching (i.e a self policing system).
7) & 8) I agree here with you on these points that you make.
penultimately No#9)Only Jah determines the end of the Game......I believe this is wrong but need to formulate why I feel and think that way so I will get back to you on that.
finally No#10)Man will have the choice to; develop his God given conscience to the fullest or he can be like the devil and spurn it!....Here I believe we are not "like" the Devil/Satan but are only following his deception.
Personal Disclosure: I now have your website address and will visit it ASAP. Thanks heaps.
reply to post by MatrixProphet
Disclaimer: I'm a theist but not of the Abrahamic faiths. I have minor biblical scholar and scriptural skills.
Personal Disclosure: Oops forgot to ask what rules you see as broken and how or in what way are the broken?
Disclaimer: I'm a theist but not of the Abrahamic faiths. I have minor biblical scholar and scriptural skills.
Personal Disclosure: Oops forgot to ask what rules you see as broken and how or in what way are the broken?
reply to post by ianr5741
Disclaimer: I'm atheist but not of the Abrahamic Faiths> I have minor biblical scholar and scriptural skills.
ianr5741 I have read your entire post and I must say well done those rules are pretty much spot on if us lemmings wanted to rule over other lemmings as GODs but i think the topic here is If the GODs are real as Matrix Prophet lays out in his O.P. then what are the rules They (the GODs) play by in ruling over us lemmings and has this been suppressed (we haven't discussed the suppression bit yet).
Personal Disclosure: I copied and pasted your post and now its on my desktop as a reminder of what us lemmings can do to ourselves let alone what a GOD can do.
Disclaimer: I'm atheist but not of the Abrahamic Faiths> I have minor biblical scholar and scriptural skills.
ianr5741 I have read your entire post and I must say well done those rules are pretty much spot on if us lemmings wanted to rule over other lemmings as GODs but i think the topic here is If the GODs are real as Matrix Prophet lays out in his O.P. then what are the rules They (the GODs) play by in ruling over us lemmings and has this been suppressed (we haven't discussed the suppression bit yet).
Personal Disclosure: I copied and pasted your post and now its on my desktop as a reminder of what us lemmings can do to ourselves let alone what a GOD can do.
reply to post by OmegaLogos
I don't think that we are surprising the Gods at all. We are too predictable. I am sure that they are happy (in their own way) when someone steps away from the crowd and stands on their own, and attempts to make contact with them. And probably even happier when we accept reality even when we don't like it!
This is where it gets sticky, LOL! Many in the world and on ATS believe that they are one and the same - Jah & Satan. I can see where everyone is coming from, on that. I have challenged that question, myself. I see a side to Jah that is very questionable. This is what brought up in my mind the aspect of a Game. They seem to be in cahoots with each other and there seems to be no getting around it!
But...if we can accept the idea that they are a family, it makes it easier to comprehend. How dysfunctional they may be, is up to interpretation! Or, are they appearing to be dysfunctional?
I have always believed in the Lake of Fire for Satan and his demons. I would have to say, now, that it is open for interpretation. If, Satan has been playing a role, and a vital one at that, it might be that his role, or status as Satan, will be destroyed - everlastingly. Now, as for his demons (of which I, and countless, have experienced their presence), they are a whole different matter.
But, what if the Biblical account is true? That there is a war going on with Michael and Satan? We certainly are feeling the effects of it here on earth! Armageddon is a surety as far as I am concerned. A question or argument someone may have against my beliefs are: "Has Armageddon already started?" I certainly believe so. (Another thread another time!) But...is it between the Gods as I have always believed, or is it direct attention to "us" the lemmings?
Of course - all is being revealed now, in these days. I am sure it will not be long before we get an accurate answer.
sk you to what degree do you see us actually fitting their agenda?
I don't think that we are surprising the Gods at all. We are too predictable. I am sure that they are happy (in their own way) when someone steps away from the crowd and stands on their own, and attempts to make contact with them. And probably even happier when we accept reality even when we don't like it!
Finally you elaborate on Satan and I would love you to try and answer the question I posed to you in an earlier post about him and the Lake of Fire thing as I'm sure I wouldn't volunteer to be killed and if this is the case is this one thing where we can say a fallen angel died for us (to refine us better by testing us against GODs/Jahs rules). Does this make Satan a saint or redeemed in your POV?
This is where it gets sticky, LOL! Many in the world and on ATS believe that they are one and the same - Jah & Satan. I can see where everyone is coming from, on that. I have challenged that question, myself. I see a side to Jah that is very questionable. This is what brought up in my mind the aspect of a Game. They seem to be in cahoots with each other and there seems to be no getting around it!
But...if we can accept the idea that they are a family, it makes it easier to comprehend. How dysfunctional they may be, is up to interpretation! Or, are they appearing to be dysfunctional?
I have always believed in the Lake of Fire for Satan and his demons. I would have to say, now, that it is open for interpretation. If, Satan has been playing a role, and a vital one at that, it might be that his role, or status as Satan, will be destroyed - everlastingly. Now, as for his demons (of which I, and countless, have experienced their presence), they are a whole different matter.
But, what if the Biblical account is true? That there is a war going on with Michael and Satan? We certainly are feeling the effects of it here on earth! Armageddon is a surety as far as I am concerned. A question or argument someone may have against my beliefs are: "Has Armageddon already started?" I certainly believe so. (Another thread another time!) But...is it between the Gods as I have always believed, or is it direct attention to "us" the lemmings?
Of course - all is being revealed now, in these days. I am sure it will not be long before we get an accurate answer.
reply to post by ianr5741
Bravo!
Have them believe that God will disown them, and they will end up in a Hotpoint box under the bridge!
3, 4, & 5, are so true of the devil's minions. This is my strongest belief that Christians - indeed, all religions are being duped. And have been used!
www.abovetopsecret.com...
I do not believe for one second that Jesus approved of Christianity or any other religion. The pagan cross has been so venerated, would he want his role to to tarnished by a symbol so reprehensible?
www.abovetopsecret.com...
Was he part of the conspiracy, to allow it to separate the masses? I don't doubt it!
To examine the Bible and its potential part in the conspiracy, we also need to look at the role Jesus played, in this conspiracy. A future thread?
Step 1) Create a mythological framework which teaches people to relinquish responsibility, and place trust and faith in a figurative leader. This will teach people to submit to authority, and have them stand idle waiting for a savior when things get bad, rather than stand up for themselves. Make it similar to local legends so the people will swallow it more easily.
Bravo!
Include in that mythology the warning that to examine any other religious idea is to expose your soul to danger.
Have them believe that God will disown them, and they will end up in a Hotpoint box under the bridge!
3, 4, & 5, are so true of the devil's minions. This is my strongest belief that Christians - indeed, all religions are being duped. And have been used!
www.abovetopsecret.com...
I do not believe for one second that Jesus approved of Christianity or any other religion. The pagan cross has been so venerated, would he want his role to to tarnished by a symbol so reprehensible?
www.abovetopsecret.com...
Was he part of the conspiracy, to allow it to separate the masses? I don't doubt it!
To examine the Bible and its potential part in the conspiracy, we also need to look at the role Jesus played, in this conspiracy. A future thread?
reply to post by OmegaLogos
This is where free will comes in, does it not? Also, it is where; cause and effect, choices vs. consequences, all come in. Do I think that we can over-ride the Gods? Yes, but with consequences. I do, believe - in my own experience, that the more I have grown spiritually, the less control, I have. Jah seems to keep me on a very tight rope, at times. But I first, needed to make the decision to turn my will, and the care of my life into his hands. That is how it worked for me.
What fun would that be? If we are created with free will, wouldn't Heavenly Congress have free will? Supposing they are actually working on the same team (when all is said and done), with the same goals. Aren't they far superior to us? Maybe there aren't the same jealousies that we as humans experience.
Couldn't this whole experience be all about; developing the fittest, in the human race? Like getting all the quirks out? Let mankind think he has more control than he actually does, so as to see the results, the effects?
Strategies are a big important part of the Game, or the mystery behind the Bible. Perhaps I will do a thread concerning Jesus, the conspiracy of the Game, and its stratagems. I will u2u, if and when I do, ok? It will cause an uproar, so I am debating it.
This is a good point! I have a strong character and so did my dad. He was an atheist until 3 months before his death. (We re-united after years of being a part.) In the last days he told me that he was re-thinking his whole belief about there not being a God! Reality of death was in his face, and he could not discharge my words about an intelligent creator. It started to make sense to him. I bring this up because - we humans are characters! Why would it not behoove the Gods to use us at times, for special missions?
There is also the distinct possibility that many came down from Heavenly Congress to fulfill special roles, ie. Mohammad, Buddha, Jesus, Mithra etc. If we don't put everyone (incl. the Gods) into a box, then other stories make sense. There are too many correlations between the different beliefs, or cultures. Why wouldn't the Gods use them all?
Only our narrowness blocks potentials.
I agree.
But, you believe in Satanic worship, don't you? I think some are caught up in the mysticism of it, and are doing it willingly. Satan has his supporters as does Jah. In the abstract - religion and the religious may be acting like the devil at times, or are buying into his lies and are being duped, or deceived.
I don't know that any of them are broken, but perhaps added to, or diverted. I see everything as following a divine map or heavenly almanac with detours along the way. After all, it makes for a more expressive and entertaining Game!
No problems but do us lemmings get a say in our own destiny and not just our competing GODs? Could we be beyond the perimeters of either sides influence?
This is where free will comes in, does it not? Also, it is where; cause and effect, choices vs. consequences, all come in. Do I think that we can over-ride the Gods? Yes, but with consequences. I do, believe - in my own experience, that the more I have grown spiritually, the less control, I have. Jah seems to keep me on a very tight rope, at times. But I first, needed to make the decision to turn my will, and the care of my life into his hands. That is how it worked for me.
Doesn't he overule the congress at all times?
What fun would that be? If we are created with free will, wouldn't Heavenly Congress have free will? Supposing they are actually working on the same team (when all is said and done), with the same goals. Aren't they far superior to us? Maybe there aren't the same jealousies that we as humans experience.
Couldn't this whole experience be all about; developing the fittest, in the human race? Like getting all the quirks out? Let mankind think he has more control than he actually does, so as to see the results, the effects?
Strategies are a big important part of the Game, or the mystery behind the Bible. Perhaps I will do a thread concerning Jesus, the conspiracy of the Game, and its stratagems. I will u2u, if and when I do, ok? It will cause an uproar, so I am debating it.
Most men in an army are privates. sure you got officers but really wouldn't the GODs reserve those positions for themselves?
This is a good point! I have a strong character and so did my dad. He was an atheist until 3 months before his death. (We re-united after years of being a part.) In the last days he told me that he was re-thinking his whole belief about there not being a God! Reality of death was in his face, and he could not discharge my words about an intelligent creator. It started to make sense to him. I bring this up because - we humans are characters! Why would it not behoove the Gods to use us at times, for special missions?
There is also the distinct possibility that many came down from Heavenly Congress to fulfill special roles, ie. Mohammad, Buddha, Jesus, Mithra etc. If we don't put everyone (incl. the Gods) into a box, then other stories make sense. There are too many correlations between the different beliefs, or cultures. Why wouldn't the Gods use them all?
Only our narrowness blocks potentials.
6)Satan is allowed the power to dispense with someone's life but within a frugal diet (for assuredly he would be a glutton). He may not be allowed to influence the deaths of many without congressional permission.......Again I agree but suggest at this point maybe the congress is the Referee as someone will always be watching (i.e a self policing system).
I agree.
Man will have the choice to; develop his God given conscience to the fullest or he can be like the devil and spurn it!....Here I believe we are not "like" the Devil/Satan but are only following his deception.
But, you believe in Satanic worship, don't you? I think some are caught up in the mysticism of it, and are doing it willingly. Satan has his supporters as does Jah. In the abstract - religion and the religious may be acting like the devil at times, or are buying into his lies and are being duped, or deceived.
Oops forgot to ask what rules you see as broken and how or in what way are the broken?
I don't know that any of them are broken, but perhaps added to, or diverted. I see everything as following a divine map or heavenly almanac with detours along the way. After all, it makes for a more expressive and entertaining Game!
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