Is the Bible Part of a Great Conspiracy?

reply to post by EagleTalonZ


What does history tell us? How often did the few know before the many? How many examples can we think of? Spiritual insight comes long before the reality. Otherwise it would not be called insight!

Originally posted by MatrixProphet
reply to post by EagleTalonZ

 

What does history tell us? How often did the few know before the many? How many examples can we think of? Spiritual insight comes long before the reality. Otherwise it would not be called insight!

I can see your point in this. But there are as many saying, "We will all perish in 2012" as there are saying, "BAH! The rapture is upon us!!" Theories of the end of time, or the end of this age, or a change in humanity are a dime a dozen. The only thing I'm seeing in large quantities, is the belief of all men that we are inevitably "doomed". lol Perhaps we're just a pessimistic race of beings

Finding out who are Creator(s) are is something I'm sure will be shown to us very soon. Perhaps in death. Perhaps that isn't the conclusion for us though.

I can't say though that history tells us that Jehovah or any one person is God. The Egyptians worshiped MANY things. The earth, the moon, animals, the sun was a big one. And on their walls, the painted pictures of men in space suits. Strange crafts. Which they obviously had something to do with on a certain level. So for me... were we created by aliens or a single omnipotent being... not answered just yet.

[Edited for further clarification]

[edit on 03/30/2008 by EagleTalonZ]

reply to post by EagleTalonZ


Ya, I completely understand where you are coming from. I guess the new question could be; has "IT" already started?

reply to post by MatrixProphet



To be honest... I think "it" probably has. But on a pretty quiet level. I think the noise is about to begin though. Then the questions will pretty much cease...

reply to post by EagleTalonZ


I like this quote:

"The Gods have their own rules."
-Ovid

I think it helps to remember that the Bible was written for man and not for God. We have the opportunity to use our knowledge to experience new insight, if we choose. If we try to put the Gods on our level of understanding we will always be disappointed. We have a choice; go along with the crowd, any crowd, or question. We don't have to like the answers, but I found as I got adjusted to them, they became more real and honest.

I had codependency kicked out of me so I no longer have the "love" for mankind that I used to. I had to learn to be okay with that.

I guess the hardest part for me was to realize that Jah is not who I thought he was and the realization that he does not love unconditionally. But, neither do we (all of our relationships have some conditions, albeit, healthy ones but still conditions)! We are made in his image, so it makes sense.

[edit on 18-4-2008 by MatrixProphet]

Listen,
In some ways I applaud the OP, in other ways it's a scary subject.

Being myself a Christian Mystic....I have recieved direct experience from a combination of reading and practicing what that new testament says, meditation, and water baptism.

My experiences were beyond that of any of the words in the Bible could describe....and yet it was after this that I began to question the Old testament.

It seems like in the OT, "God's" actions and reactions to things dont add up to something God would do. Especially giving us humans (the jews) hundreds of laws that God knows in advance would never be able to be held up. If that was the case, Jesus should have stepped into the scene instead of the hundreds of unkeepable laws.

I hopped on the net and found a large group of different kinds of Christians from the early days before the Council of Nicea.....where many Christians and gnostics believed the God of the old testament was a Demiurge (insert Yahweh, Elohim, Jah, and so forth)....While the God Jesus presents in the New Testament......is the 1 True God.

In some ways that rings true for some hunches I've had.....and when this is brought up to anyone "in the church" or "theologians" you should see the nostrils flare!!!!!!

Now I love God to death and do believe Jesus was real and savior....but there are things in the Bible that make you say "Huh?" And I'm speaking on esoteric deeper spiritual knowledge and stuff taken in retrospect

Matrix Prophet,
Just wanted to respond to your last post the one right above this one......above mine actually.

I hear you on the conditional Love part........ but I have to say that when Jesus promises the Holy Spirit in the new testament, and a spiritual rebirth....I've gone through those things and experienced divine Love that was and is unconditional.

I mean I have since then come back down to earth alittle more and continually have a fight between conditional and unconditional Love. But I gotta say, the promise given in the NT.....I have recieved and have experienced the MAGNIFICENT Heights of Divine unconditional Love, ego death, holy spirit indwelling, thine eye be single, dark night of the soul, and a whole bunch of others.

It is the biggest reason why I am in a Holy Love relationship with God. And when a situation occurs in my life where I have to choose between responding then normal way vs. the spiritual way...I usually re-encompass the experience and the tethers of that Divine unconditional Love experience and act accordingly...not all the time but most.

reply to post by dominicus


You gave such a good response and it is appreciated!

I too, have a very loving relationship with God. You will probably relate...I needed to get out of self and learn "HIS" love and his messages. He has shown unbelievable consideration towards me, but, make no mistake, it is his way or the highway! In this sense I mean the conditional part. Here is a neat thing though, I want to do it his way. I don't have to always like it, but nevertheless, I do it anyway because it is too painful to do it my way.

On the Bible: I don't expect everyone to think the way I do regarding its authorship. There is no doubt in my mind that it was divinely authored and that it has Jah's approval. Looking at it as a mystery book has helped me immensely to understand the quirks in its writings, and I find it mentally challenging!

I hear you on that.

What do you make of the idea/theory that Jah/Yahweh?Elohim and all the other names ascribed to God in the Old Testament are implying Demi-urges or lesser gods, whereas what Jesus spoke of and represented was the 1 true God of gods?????

reply to post by dominicus


[quote]I hopped on the net and found a large group of different kinds of Christians from the early days before the Council of Nicea.....where many Christians and gnostics believed the God of the old testament was a Demiurge (insert Yahweh, Elohim, Jah, and so forth)....While the God Jesus presents in the New Testament......is the 1 True God.

I do not know that I make much of it. Yah (from YHWH) was the earliest name attached to God that was used. But many in the OT early on, did not feel like it was right or respectful to use it, apparently the Israelites did? It makes you wonder what name then, Jesus referred to his Father as. #1 True God is a station, or description, not a name.

This could explain it: The early Christians and Gnostics had so much influence from the outside, and of course the Gods of the Romans and the Greeks would take precedence over the Jews God. So Jah, Yahweh, Elohim would seem to make God a lesser God. It is understood by some scholars that not only the Gnostics but also with the advent of Paul on the scene, he could have brought it into his newly formed Christian sects.

With new information coming out, it is possible that Paul was actually a Gentile by birth and not even Jewish, but converted to Judaism later. Although this is conjecture at this point. I would like to do a thread on Paul and what I believe his role was, at some point. I would be interested in your take!

Disclaimer : I'm a theist but not a Christian or follower of the Abrahamic faith. I have minor bible and scriptural knowledge in my opinion.

MatrixProphet I was lead here by a post of yours in BTS and I have found this thread and your O.P. very exciting for me. 1stly I am Interested what "Game Rules" that you think and feel that this Heavenly Congress plays by? (ie not the ones they gave to us lemmings but the ones they have for themselves!) 2ndly I absolutely loved the Thessalonians 2:10-12 scriptural quote and would give you a star* if I but knew how to do it (sorry I'm very new) . I found this agrees perfectly with a particular view I once had but had no scriptural base for it so thanks very much.

Personal Disclosure: I like this version of a bible overview so much I'm investigating it's worth immediately. I may become the latest convert to its ideology lol (I don't believe you are trying to convert anyone though!). very well done as you've denied my ignorance

Hmmm how can I provide PROOF that the bible is part of a conspiracy based on a Heavenly Congress as MatrixProphet describes...methinks I shall wait for the possible Heavenly Congress "Game Rules" update 1st.

Ah now my minds really kicking into gear and is asking me Questions like "What are the consequences for me, a lemming, if this be true? And what am I going to do about it?" oh and lets not forget the most human question any of us can ask "Who can I blame this on?" LOL. This thread was like GO JOOZE for my brain I can't wait to get back to you with some answers answering your threads title.

Oh dear I went light headed and giddy for a moment there! HMPH (composes self) Lets hope I work out some good enlightening questions and/or provide some hard core answers for you soon.

Pleases get back to me and the whole thread by posting your version of their rules as I will need them to possibly deny more ignorance!!!

reply to post by menguard


Disclaimer: I'm a theist.

menguard, I very much liked your version as an overview as well as it sort of suits my POV of each global,local and internal states of GOD across all times and places supporting all the other states in dynamic equilibrium.

So in your opinion would your version mean we are "ALL Actively" responsible (ie we are the conspirators!) for the conspiracy we now find ourselves in having self created it and now having it shoved back in our faces both from the past and the future which are also suffering our conspiratorial output?

Personal Disclosure: I feel if we don't want to live in a conspiratorial world then we must start with ourselves and stop lying to ourselves 1st! DENY IGNORANCE 1st! or ignorance will deny us the tools we need when required!

Become totally disillusioned and finally see everything for real. Think Globally, Act Locally and Feel Internally.

Originally posted by MatrixProphet

Is the Bible Part of a Great Conspiracy?

Why would it matter if the bible were part of a great conspiracy?

It is very likely in my opinion that the Christian religion is a conspiracy, but does it matter at all for God, or the individuals who worships Him?

How does it change Gods ability to communicate His will to the mind of a person if the bible was written with the intent to deceive?

No matter what a person uses as a source of discovering God or the truth, even if it is the product of a conspiracy, it can still be used by God as a point of enlightenment for the individual and fellowship between them.

How is it that the foolish and unlearned people of history are able to know things in spite of the attempts of men to keep them in darkness and ignorance?

Have you ever heard the saying, truth is revealed even on the boot heels of the devil?

It is all about honesty that is why it doesn't matter how evil others are, if you are honest God is willing and able to enlighten your heart, whether you have a bible on hand or not.

How do the people who attempt to deceive know that there actions were not fully anticipated and expected as part of Gods plan for His believing people, as the actions of Judas were in God's plan for His Messiah.

Would it even be possible to do something that could prevent one person from coming to God whom God has preordained to know Him?

In the end isn't it the actions of the devil attempting to deceive the world and to thwart the aims of almighty God that leads to his ultimate destruction the end of this world and to the salvation of the people of God?

God is not mocked you see for what a man soweth that shall he also reap.

Religion can never mock God it is not possible any more than it is possible for God to cast a shadow in His turning.

Nothing anyone does or believes can prevent the will of God from occurring in the fullness of time.

When it is time for the dead to rise they will rise, and when it is time for mortal men to put on immortality they shall put it on according to word of God.

A mans disbelief is irrelevant as is all the schemes of the wicked.

[edit on 27-4-2008 by newday]

reply to post by newday


I have read your post and it seem clear to me that you are saying that no matter what it doesn't matter as its all preordained! This may be so but It seems off topic as the topic is regardless of whether it matters or not (as it clearly matters to us both or we wouldn't of posted to this thread!) as we are discussing and I quote the threads topic "Is the Bible Part of a Great Conspiracy?". Do you have any evidence for or against MatrixProphets story of the potential state of affairs? If yes then please provide it or if not maybe go research some and come back when you do as I would love to hear any real arguments concerning this matter. For example could you suggest any of the rules that the potential Heavenly Congress may play by and why that may be so?

edited to correct single spelling error of ad to and.

[edit on 27-4-2008 by OmegaLogos]

I believe the bible was written for man by man and used as a object of control over part of the masses. It has been picked apart with books left out and words changed to accomplish this.

reply to post by OmegaLogos

My goodness! Thank you! I would appreciate a star. Go to the top left corner of my first post and you will see a blue star and the outline of one next to it. Press it and it will light up blue.

Actually, I have a lot of ideas as to what the Game Rules could be. I will get to it later, as I am unable to at the moment. But I would love any input you may have. If you care to, at the bottom of any ones post, you can push on profile to see what other threads we all have written.

If you are talking to me...star is done. A good post for sure...this is my element.

reply to post by alienib

I believe the bible was written for man by man and used as a object of control over part of the masses. It has been picked apart with books left out and words changed to accomplish this.

Ah. but you are taking all the fun out of it! LOL! The Bible was written by man for man, but there is no doubt in my mind that the Gods were involved. There is too much archaeological evidence supporting truths that are recorded in the Bible. I agree with everything else you said.

I always like to ask; have you read the Bible, from cover to cover? If you haven't, it is pretty remarkable! Man is too dysfunctional to be able to write a book that took a couple thousand years to write and have it be so cohesive, and for it to survive.

reply to post by alienib

If you are talking to me...star is done. A good post for sure...this is my element.

LOL! Actually I was referring to OmegaLogos. But thank you!
It's great that it is your element.

reply to post by newday


Hi Newday!

I will discuss some of what you brought up.

Why would it matter if the bible were part of a great conspiracy?

Do you want to be blind? I have my old pair of blinders I could sell you, LOL!

How does it change Gods ability to communicate His will to the mind of a person if the bible was written with the intent to deceive?

Spiritual connection? I don't need the Bible for Jah to communicate to me, do you?

No matter what a person uses as a source of discovering God or the truth, even if it is the product of a conspiracy, it can still be used by God as a point of enlightenment for the individual and fellowship between them.

Absolutely! Please don't misunderstand me ppls! I love the Bible and it has gone a long way towards saving my life!

How is it that the foolish and unlearned people of history are able to know things in spite of the attempts of men to keep them in darkness and ignorance?

Divine connection that overrides the masses.

Have you ever heard the saying, truth is revealed even on the boot heels of the devil?

Love It! Satan can be a gentleman at times. I have even learned from him!

How do the people who attempt to deceive know that there actions were not fully anticipated and expected as part of Gods plan for His believing people, as the actions of Judas were in God's plan for His Messiah.

Good question. How do you know that Judas did not fit a divine plan and that he was used to fulfill prophesy, and that he actually loved Jesus but did it because Jesus asked him to? How do we know for sure, that ones like him, are not meant to cause conflict? Does it not separate ones from the truth vs. the lie? Those who are deceiving out of an evil heart aren't fooling anyone but those who are receptive.

Would it even be possible to do something that could prevent one person from coming to God whom God has preordained to know Him?

Nothing will stop Jah.

In the end isn't it the actions of the devil attempting to deceive the world and to thwart the aims of almighty God that leads to his ultimate destruction the end of this world and to the salvation of the people of God?

Yes, but it is up to us as to whether we choose to be puppeted or not. I believe that time has already arrived!

Yep, nothing will stop Jah. I believe it is important to be on the inside court with as much info and as little ignorance as possible.