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Challenge to 757 impact at the Pentagon supporters...

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posted on Apr, 7 2008 @ 03:44 PM
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Originally posted by nicepants

Then you must not be using this method, because all of your witnesses corroborate the impact.


Oh nicepants.

Same old circular logic.

Why are you so concerned with CIT that you sign up to forums specifically to cast doubt on our claims?

Why do you embrace faulty logic and faith over evidence?

Everyone knows the north side claim and impact are mutually exclusive.

Everyone knows the north side claim proves a deliberate military deception and to suggest that all the witnesses were wrong about the north side would have to mean that they all simultaneously hallucinated the exact same thing.

But you are off topic which is against the rules in this forum.

Please stick to the topic and present independent verifiable evidence of a 757 impact or concede that your belief in this conspiracy theory is purely faith based.

[edit on 7-4-2008 by Craig Ranke CIT]




posted on Apr, 7 2008 @ 03:53 PM
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Originally posted by hybridx

I really want to see what your side of the story is. ON THIS SITE!


Well there is a lot of information in this regard and I have posted virtually all of it on this site.

I'm not trying to avoid it I just don't want to get off topic in this thread.

I suggest you click on my user name and go through the previous threads I have posted to see the cornucopia of evidence that I have presented.

Feel free to bump any of them with questions and I'll be happy to answer for you.

Here is a quick summary....we can prove with independent verifiable evidence that the Pentagon attack jet came from east of the river and flew north of the former citgo station timed perfectly with the explosion.

The east side and north side claims separately prove a military deception on two different fronts.

The east side claim proves that all the government released data about the flight path (particularly NTSB and 84 RADES data) is fraudulent and the north side claim proves that the plane had to have flown over the building and away from the Pentagon creating the illusion to people on the impact side that it hit the building.

Kind of like this:




posted on Apr, 7 2008 @ 03:53 PM
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reply to post by Craig Ranke CIT
 


Yes they have. Pages upon pages. You are playing (surprise!) semantic games in-so-far as what you consider 'real' evidence.

Truthers seem to set themselves up for failure like a compulsive gambler sets themselves up to loose. The compulsive gambler doesn’t recognize the position he places himself in (i.e. impossible odds) and insists the “house” is out to get him, or his luck is waning, or the dealer doesn’t like him, etc, etc.



posted on Apr, 7 2008 @ 03:58 PM
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Originally posted by Craig Ranke CIT
reply to post by beachnut
 



Nothing has been "cherry picked".

We provide independent verifiable evidence PROVING a deliberate military deception in regards to the impact.

You have provided zero independent verifiable evidence of a 757 impact.

Yep. You own witness



"A plane just flew into the Pentagon," Boger

Thus proving you cherry pick what your witnesses said, and you ignore the independent verified statements made well before you started making up stories and using just part of witness statements to support your false story.



posted on Apr, 7 2008 @ 04:08 PM
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So how many have seen a fly over? Zero witnesses who were too busy watching what 77 had done to the Pentagon, or watching 77 hit the Pentagon. That verifies that part of the CIT false story.

"... we saw a plane coming toward us, for about 10 seconds ... It was like watching a train wreck. I was mesmerized.... At first I thought it was trying to crash land, but it was coming in so deliberately, so level ... Everyone said there was a deafening explosion, but with the adrenaline, American Airlines 737 twin-engine airliner strike the building.we didn’t hear it.
Marine Corps officer Mike Dobbs was standing on one of the upper levels of the outer ring of the Pentagon looking out the window when he saw an

"It seemed to be almost coming in slow motion," he said later Tuesday. "I didn’t actually feel it hit, but I saw it and then we all started running." Dobbs, Mike
I got it now, everyone who does not support your theory is a liar for the Government, and that includes your witnesses except where they support your made up path, fly over, or other ideas you have made up without real evidence. Make up the rules and you win in only your own mind. Your witnesses are a perfect source to show your conclusion are made up.



posted on Apr, 7 2008 @ 04:19 PM
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Originally posted by Craig Ranke CIT

Originally posted by nicepants


You're rejecting the "hard evidence" that AA77 hit the pentagon.
Now who's biased?


Please provide independent verifiable evidence specifically that a 757 hit the Pentagon as the challenge in the OP requests.

So far none has been presented.


? Did you watch your own video? All of your witnesses state that the plane hit the pentagon.



posted on Apr, 7 2008 @ 04:23 PM
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Originally posted by nicepants


? Did you watch your own video? All of your witnesses state that the plane hit the pentagon.


Everyone knows the north side claim and impact are mutually exclusive.

Everyone knows the north side claim proves a deliberate military deception and to suggest that all the witnesses were wrong about the north side would have to mean that they all simultaneously hallucinated the exact same thing.

But you are off topic which is against the rules in this forum.

Please stick to the topic and present independent verifiable evidence of a 757 impact or concede that your belief in this conspiracy theory is purely faith based.



posted on Apr, 7 2008 @ 04:25 PM
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Originally posted by beachnut



"A plane just flew into the Pentagon," Boger

Thus proving you cherry pick what your witnesses said, and you ignore the independent verified statements made well before you started making up stories and using just part of witness statements to support your false story.


Sean Boger saw the plane bank over the Navy Annex and fly north of the citgo. This proves he was mistaken in regards to the impact just like the citgo witnesses.

Everyone knows the north side claim and impact are mutually exclusive.

Everyone knows the north side claim proves a deliberate military deception and to suggest that all the witnesses were wrong about the north side would have to mean that they all simultaneously hallucinated the exact same thing.

But you are off topic which is against the rules in this forum.

Please stick to the topic and present independent verifiable evidence of a 757 impact or concede that your belief in this conspiracy theory is purely faith based.



posted on Apr, 7 2008 @ 04:28 PM
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Originally posted by Craig Ranke CIT

Originally posted by nicepants


? Did you watch your own video? All of your witnesses state that the plane hit the pentagon.


Everyone knows the north side claim and impact are mutually exclusive.

Everyone knows the north side claim proves a deliberate military deception and to suggest that all the witnesses were wrong about the north side would have to mean that they all simultaneously hallucinated the exact same thing.

But you are off topic which is against the rules in this forum.

Please stick to the topic and present independent verifiable evidence of a 757 impact or concede that your belief in this conspiracy theory is purely faith based.



Apparently not because only a couple of you think so. The rest of the world already understands that your evidence is not reliable. Everyone but you knows you are completely wrong. And your own witnesses have already been used to verify that the plane hit the building. One of your own witnesses claimed watching it impact the building and said they could even hear the metal scraping through the building as it impacted.

Now about that evidence of a fly over?



posted on Apr, 7 2008 @ 04:29 PM
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Originally posted by Craig Ranke CITWhy are you so concerned with CIT that you sign up to forums specifically to cast doubt on our claims?


Don't flatter yourself, I didn't sign up here for you.


Originally posted by Craig Ranke CITWhy do you embrace faulty logic and faith over evidence?


You are the one using faulty logic:

You claim that corroboration makes your eyewitness claims correct, yet when they corroborate something that contradicts your theory, you claim that they are wrong. That's faulty logic. (Confirmation bias)


Originally posted by Craig Ranke CITEveryone knows the north side claim and impact are mutually exclusive.


I agree. Your own witnesses contradict themselves, you simply reject the claims which disagree with your theory.


Originally posted by Craig Ranke CITEveryone knows the north side claim proves a deliberate military deception and to suggest that all the witnesses were wrong about the north side would have to mean that they all simultaneously hallucinated the exact same thing.


No. It just means that they were wrong about the specific location of the plane. (As also evidenced by the fact that the flight path deduced from their statements is physically imposible)



posted on Apr, 7 2008 @ 04:33 PM
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Originally posted by Craig Ranke CIT

Originally posted by nicepants


? Did you watch your own video? All of your witnesses state that the plane hit the pentagon.


Please stick to the topic and present independent verifiable evidence of a 757 impact or concede that your belief in this conspiracy theory is purely faith based.


CIT's video in which the witnesses interviewed by CIT state that the plane hit the pentagon.



posted on Apr, 7 2008 @ 04:34 PM
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Originally posted by Craig Ranke CIT
Sean Boger saw the plane bank over the Navy Annex and fly north of the citgo. This proves he was mistaken in regards to the impact just like the citgo witnesses.


If 2 mutually exclusive claims are made, how were you able to determine which one was correct, and which one was false?

How do you know that they were not correct about the impact and therefore mistaken about their "north of citgo" claims?



posted on Apr, 7 2008 @ 04:38 PM
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Originally posted by nicepants


You are the one using faulty logic:

You claim that corroboration makes your eyewitness claims correct, yet when they corroborate something that contradicts your theory, you claim that they are wrong. That's faulty logic. (Confirmation bias)

Your own witnesses contradict themselves, you simply reject the claims which disagree with your theory.



Incorrect.

Since the claims are mutually exclusive everyone must choose which to accept.

There is strong scientific logic involved in choosing the north side claim.

1. The witnesses were all much closer to the plane as it passed by the station compared to when it reached the building giving a hard physical reason to accept the north side claim first.

2. In order for the impact claim to be true the witnesses would all have had to have simultaneously hallucinated the same thing which is a drastic mistake that would be virtually impossible for anyone to make due to their vantage point. The north side claim proves a deliberate military deception which is much different.

Logic, reason, facts, evidence.

Now stick to the topic unless of course you are not able to provide any independent verifiable evidence that a 757 hit the Pentagon then either concede your belief in the official conspiracy theory is faith based or go post in a thread with an appropriate topic.



posted on Apr, 7 2008 @ 04:39 PM
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Originally posted by nicepants

If 2 mutually exclusive claims are made, how were you able to determine which one was correct, and which one was false?

How do you know that they were not correct about the impact and therefore mistaken about their "north of citgo" claims?


There is strong scientific logic involved in choosing the north side claim.

1. The witnesses were all much closer to the plane as it passed by the station compared to when it reached the building giving a hard physical reason to accept the north side claim first.

2. In order for the impact claim to be true the witnesses would all have had to have simultaneously hallucinated the same thing which is a drastic mistake that would be virtually impossible for anyone to make due to their vantage point. The north side claim proves a deliberate military deception which is much different.

Logic, reason, facts, evidence.

Now stick to the topic unless of course you are not able to provide any independent verifiable evidence that a 757 hit the Pentagon then either concede your belief in the official conspiracy theory is faith based or go post in a thread with an appropriate topic.



posted on Apr, 7 2008 @ 04:45 PM
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Originally posted by Craig Ranke CIT

Since the claims are mutually exclusive everyone must choose which to accept.

There is strong scientific logic involved in choosing the north side claim.

1. The witnesses were all much closer to the plane as it passed by the station compared to when it reached the building giving a hard physical reason to accept the north side claim first.

2. In order for the impact claim to be true the witnesses would all have had to have simultaneously hallucinated the same thing which is a drastic mistake that would be virtually impossible for anyone to make due to their vantage point. The north side claim proves a deliberate military deception which is much different.



1. The plane was moving approximately 530 mph which would have made it extremely difficult for these witnesses to determine an exact location. Seeing it hit a building, however, doesn't require the same degree of precision.

2. In order for the NOC claim to be true, the witnesses would all have to have simultaneously hallucinated the same impact.



posted on Apr, 7 2008 @ 04:49 PM
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Originally posted by nicepants


1. The plane was moving approximately 530 mph which would have made it extremely difficult for these witnesses to determine an exact location. Seeing it hit a building, however, doesn't require the same degree of precision.

2. In order for the NOC claim to be true, the witnesses would all have to have simultaneously hallucinated the same impact.



1. They don't have to determine an "exact location". They merely needed to be able to tell the extremely general and simple claim about what side of the property on which they were standing it flew. For anyone to get such a simple and general claim wrong would be extremely difficult if not impossible but for ALL of them to get it wrong the same way is certainly impossible.

2. The north side claim proves a deliberate deception. Perhaps you aren't familiar with what that means but it has nothing to do with hallucinations.


Now stick to the topic unless of course you are not able to provide any independent verifiable evidence that a 757 hit the Pentagon then either concede your belief in the official conspiracy theory is faith based or go post in a thread with an appropriate topic.

[edit on 7-4-2008 by Craig Ranke CIT]



posted on Apr, 7 2008 @ 04:58 PM
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Originally posted by Craig Ranke CIT

Originally posted by nicepants


1. The plane was moving approximately 530 mph which would have made it extremely difficult for these witnesses to determine an exact location. Seeing it hit a building, however, doesn't require the same degree of precision.

2. In order for the NOC claim to be true, the witnesses would all have to have simultaneously hallucinated the same impact.



1. They don't have to determine an "exact location". They merely needed to be able to tell the extremely general and simple claim about what side of the property on which they were standing it flew. For anyone to get such a simple and general claim wrong would be extremely difficult if not impossible but for ALL of them to get it wrong the same way is certainly impossible.

2. The north side claim proves a deliberate deception. Perhaps you aren't familiar with what that means but it has nothing to do with hallucinations.


Now stick to the topic unless of course you are not able to provide any independent verifiable evidence that a 757 hit the Pentagon then either concede your belief in the official conspiracy theory is faith based or go post in a thread with an appropriate topic.

[edit on 7-4-2008 by Craig Ranke CIT]


1. Are you saying that it is impossible for all of them to have been wrong about the plane being north of the citgo? Even though we know that the flight path they described is impossible?

2. Wait.. If they are wrong about NOC then they were hallucinating, but if they were wrong about impact it proves a deception? Faulty logic indeed.

The DNA of the passengers of AA77 was recovered from within the Pentagon, as were parts of the plane, and your NOC flight path is physically impossible. Go home.



posted on Apr, 7 2008 @ 05:05 PM
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Originally posted by nicepants


1. Are you saying that it is impossible for all of them to have been wrong about the plane being north of the citgo? Even though we know that the flight path they described is impossible?


It's not impossible. That is a jref lie from fabricated and tweaked numbers.



2. Wait.. If they are wrong about NOC then they were hallucinating, but if they were wrong about impact it proves a deception? Faulty logic indeed.


It's not faulty logic it is fact.

If the plane hit there was no deception meaning they all simultaneously hallucinated the same thing.

If the plane was north of the citgo it proves a deliberate deception that has nothing to do with hallucinations.

This is a fact.



The DNA of the passengers of AA77 was recovered from within the Pentagon, as were parts of the plane,


That is not independent verifiable evidence, that is unverifiable faith based evidence.

The rules require that you stick to the topic, please follow the rules of the forum as this topic has nothing to do with the north side claim or any of the evidence presented by CIT.



posted on Apr, 7 2008 @ 05:11 PM
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Originally posted by Craig Ranke CIT
It's not impossible. That is a jref lie from fabricated and tweaked numbers.


They used your numbers.


Originally posted by Craig Ranke CIT
If the plane hit there was no deception meaning they all simultaneously hallucinated the same thing.


...or it means the plane actually hit


Originally posted by Craig Ranke CITIf the plane was north of the citgo it proves a deliberate deception that has nothing to do with hallucinations.


But if the plane wasn't north of the citgo, then they were just wrong.


Originally posted by Craig Ranke CIT


The DNA of the passengers of AA77 was recovered from within the Pentagon, as were parts of the plane,


That is not independent verifiable evidence, that is unverifiable faith based evidence.


DNA is not "faith based evidence".

Please explain, then, what you consider to be "verifiable independent evidence"?



[edit on 7-4-2008 by nicepants]



posted on Apr, 7 2008 @ 05:26 PM
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Originally posted by nicepants

DNA is not "faith based evidence".


It is in the context of an investigation into government involvement into 9/11 because it was solely controlled and provided for by the suspect.

No court of law would accept DNA evidence or reports that were collected, analyzed, and provided for solely by the defendant.



Please explain, then, what you consider to be "verifiable independent evidence"?


The words are self explanatory but I already explained what they mean in the OP and throughout the thread.

Please read it.

No government controlled data is independent within the context of an investigation into government involvement. Plus obviously we know the chain of custody of the DNA is not verifiable.



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