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Jet engine sim for testing 9/11 planes

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posted on May, 18 2008 @ 12:36 AM
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Originally posted by Disclosed
You want ME to apologize because your link doesnt mention jet blast at all?.


I want an apology becasue you stated this thread was not about jet blast when i have shown the OP did state jet blast.


I'm betting they will discuss that in a "jet blast" or "jet wash" thread, rather than a "jet engine sim" thread.

Wouldnt you think?


I am waiting for an apology.


[edit on 18-5-2008 by ULTIMA1]




posted on May, 18 2008 @ 12:38 AM
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Originally posted by weedwhacker
Oh dear....ULTIMA....you just opened upa can of worms, there!! Have fun!!!


Well someone needs to teach him that he cannot keep going around srtating things that are not true. If not me maybe the mods.



posted on May, 18 2008 @ 12:41 AM
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Originally posted by ULTIMA1
I want an apology becasue you stated this thread was not about jet blast when i have shown the OP did state jet blast.


Your link does not show anything about jet blast or jet wash.

So, in essence, your first post in this thread is mis-information....you say it talks about jetwash or jetblast, but it does neither.

Why mention jet wash and jet blast if your link doesnt prove/show any of that?



posted on May, 18 2008 @ 12:48 AM
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reply to post by ULTIMA1
 


Well...ULTIMA....you are the OP in this thread....please explain to your audience, now that you have our attention....what exactly IS the point of the 'Jet engine sim for testing 9/11 planes' ???

That WAS the original post, was it not?


I just edited to move the question marks.....farther away....

Would love to hear your opinion, ULTIMA....



posted on May, 18 2008 @ 12:48 AM
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Originally posted by Disclosed
Your link does not show anything about jet blast or jet wash.

So, in essence, your first post in this thread is mis-information....you say it talks about jetwash


I am still wating for an apology, since you stated the thread was not about jet blast.

1. The OP has a sim showing what the jet blast would be coming out of the engines.

2. I have posted a source about the jet blast causing the cars to rock at the Pentagon.

3. I just posted a definition of wake turbulence that stated that JET WASH (JET BLAST) is a part of the turbulence.

I am asking 1 more time that you be adult enough to apologize.



posted on May, 18 2008 @ 12:50 AM
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Originally posted by ULTIMA1

1. The OP has a sim showing what the jet blast would be coming out of the engines..


I ran the sim on the link you provided.

Nowhere does it mention jet blast or jet wash.

I set it up to the specifications you even posted. Still no information on jet blast or jet wash.

Where is that information displayed, Roger?



posted on May, 18 2008 @ 12:52 AM
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Originally posted by weedwhacker
Well...ULTIMA....you are the OP in this thread....please explain to your audience, now that you have our attention....what exactly IS the point of the 'Jet engine sim for testing 9/11 planes' ???


Well as stated in the post.

The sim was to show the how the engines on the plane at the Pentagon would have reacted.

Also as stated in the post the sim shows jet blast that would be coming from the engine at different speeds and altitudes.

I have posted from the source of the sim information about jet blast and that witnesses stated jet blast rocked the cars at the Pentagon.

Do i need to repost the sources i have posted ?

[edit on 18-5-2008 by ULTIMA1]



posted on May, 18 2008 @ 12:54 AM
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Originally posted by ULTIMA1
Also as stated in the post the sim shows jet blast that would be coming from the engine at different speeds and altitudes.


That is what I am asking for, Roger.

Where does the sim show jet blast that would be coming from the engine?

What setting? what readout?

Nothing on that sim is marked "jet blast" or "jet wash".

Where is that information, Roger?



posted on May, 18 2008 @ 12:56 AM
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Originally posted by Disclosed
I ran the sim on the link you provided.


Please try to follow along, i know you are not fimilar with the wording.

If you look in the upper right you will see 2 items. 1 says NET THRUST the other says GROSS THRUST.

That is the amount of thrust coming out of the enigine, also referred to as jet blast or jet wash.

As you change the setting of the engine you will see the amount of thrust change also.



[edit on 18-5-2008 by ULTIMA1]



posted on May, 18 2008 @ 12:58 AM
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reply to post by ULTIMA1
 


ULTIMA...per your last post....could you please help me out? to what are you referring??

Thanks....WW

OK....rather than deleting my original post, I wish to keep it intact.

because, as it has been repeatedly pointed out, to the OP...the 'Jet engine sim for testing 9/11 planes' --- that IS the title, of this thread, correct??

This has NOTHING to do with 'jet-blast', since that is a phenomenom that only pertains to airplanes on the ground, as they use 'break-away' thrust to initiate taxi....or, as they they power-up for take-off....


The other contention, by the OP is a possible 'wake turbulence' issue...

That is more likely than the 'jet-blast' idea......wake turbulence is a powerful phenomenom...(sp?)...but is short-lived....as is the so-called -jet-blast'.....



[edit on 5/18/0808 by weedwhacker]



posted on May, 18 2008 @ 01:04 AM
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Originally posted by weedwhacker
ULTIMA...per your last post....could you please help me out? to what are you referring??


Ok, on the right side of the sim you should see the following items.

NET THRUST --------- FUEL FLOW
GROSS THRUST ------ TSFC
RAM DRAG -------- CORE AIRFLOW
Fnet/W ---------- WEIGHT

Do you see those items?


[edit on 18-5-2008 by ULTIMA1]



posted on May, 18 2008 @ 01:13 AM
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reply to post by ULTIMA1
 



According to your site here:

www.grc.nasa.gov...


erodynamicists often refer to the first term (m dot * V)e as the gross thrust since this term is largely associated with conditions in the nozzle. The second term (m dot * V)0 is called the ram drag and is usually associated with conditions in the inlet. For clarity, the engine thrust is then called the net thrust. Our thrust equation indicates that net thrust equals gross thrust minus ram drag.


Gross thrust is conditions in the nozzle. It is not "jet blast" or "jet wash"

Net thrust is just the engine thrust.

Jet blast is mentioned here:

asrs.arc.nasa.gov...

but it references planes taxiing, but not in flight.


[edit on 18-5-2008 by Disclosed]



posted on May, 18 2008 @ 01:23 AM
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Originally posted by Disclosed
This site still does not mention Jet wash or jet blast.


Well you need to look better at the source that the sim is from and the other sources i have psoted that go along with the OP.

Also that fact that thrust coming out the engine is called jet blast as explaned in the definition of wake turbulence a few post ago. 9wake turbulence happens in flight so JET BLAST or JET WASH happens in flight not just on the ground.


Jetwash refers simply to the rapidly moving gasses expelled from a jet engine; it is extremely turbulent, but of short duration.


Looks like i am going to have to repost all the sources and information i have posted on this thread.



[edit on 18-5-2008 by ULTIMA1]

[edit on 18-5-2008 by ULTIMA1]



posted on May, 18 2008 @ 01:26 AM
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Originally posted by ULTIMA1

Originally posted by weedwhacker
ULTIMA...per your last post....could you please help me out? to what are you referring??


Ok, on the right side of the sim you should see the following items.

NET THRUST --------- FUEL FLOW
GROSS THRUST ------ TSFC
RAM DRAG -------- CORE AIRFLOW
Fnet/W ---------- WEIGHT

Do you see those items?


[edit on 18-5-2008 by ULTIMA1]

Um....ULTIMA....what you just provided has no logic as it pertains to how a modern engine operates.....sorry!!

OK....NET THRUST=FUEL FLOW....well....that was correct.

What is TSFC?....is this from your silly simultor??? The thing we already debunked as being a piece of garbage???



posted on May, 18 2008 @ 01:31 AM
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Originally posted by weedwhacker

OK....NET THRUST=FUEL FLOW....well....that was correct.


Well if you look it is a NASA sim for students.

IF you set up a turbofan engine, and run an altitude and speed it gives you

The amount of thrust (JET WASH) comming out of the engine, you stated that is correct, thats the main point i was showing from the sim.

Also gives you the amount of fuel used which you also stated is correct.

What else were you looking for? Are you calling a NASA sim garbage?


[edit on 18-5-2008 by ULTIMA1]



posted on May, 18 2008 @ 01:38 AM
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reply to post by ULTIMA1
 


Yes..of course.....it has the stated values....but.....these do not show up, n flight....because, you dont' seem to understand...that inflight....what you see is very different from what you expect.....



posted on May, 18 2008 @ 01:44 AM
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Originally posted by weedwhacker
Yes..of course.....it has the stated values....but.....these do not show up, n flight.


Yes i know i was just using the sim to show the amount of thrust the engine would be putting out (enough to rock cars if it was close enough) I know its not whats shown in flight in the cockpit. As stated this is just a basic sim for students to learn about engines, but its good enough to show about the thrust and other things that happen to an engine at different settings.

Also if you run the speed up to around 480 you get an overtemp warning.

[edit on 18-5-2008 by ULTIMA1]



posted on May, 18 2008 @ 09:13 AM
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Lets look at some definitions that show jet engine thrust, jet blast and jet wash are basically refer to the same thing, the thrust produced by a jet engine. This occurs on the ground AND in the air.

1. Jet Engine thrust.
en.wikipedia.org...

A jet engine is a reaction engine that discharges a fast moving jet of fluid to generate thrust in accordance with Newton's third law of motion.


2. Jet Blast
en.wikipedia.org...

Jet blast is the phenomenon of rapid air movement produced by the jet engines of aircraft, particularly on or before takeoff.


3. Jetwash
en.wikipedia.org...

Jetwash refers simply to the rapidly moving gasses expelled from a jet engine; it is extremely turbulent, but of short duration.



posted on May, 18 2008 @ 09:48 AM
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reply to post by weedwhacker
 


TSFC is Thrust Specific Fuel Consumption.

This is the ratio of the fuel consumption rate to the amount of thrust the engine is producing. Obviously, no units.



posted on May, 18 2008 @ 10:13 AM
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I have to hope that it's not a revelation to anyone that air is blasted out of a jet engine or that fast moving aircraft disturb the air. The blast from the engine is highly concentrated for efficiency so to be badly affected by it directly you'd have to be lined up with the engine within about 10' of centre and fairly close as well.

From the witness statements, flight recorder and other evidence the plane had a nose down attitude (descending) and was high enough above the roadway for the direct blast to not affect people and vehicles directly. They would have felt a disturbance as it passed and that's exactly what they said about it so it fits. They also made more mention of the blast of the plane exploding as it hit the building being far more significant and that was about 800' away from them.

Over 20 of the witnesses identified the plane as having AA markings and a handful of experienced observers even recognised it as a Boeing 757. Witnesses watched it hit light poles then the building and explode. Debris with AA markings was strewn around the crash site and some major components were identfiable as being used on 757s. The AA77 flight recorders were recovered from the wreckage.

What can we conclude hit the Pentagon?



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