Jet engine sim for testing 9/11 planes, page 4


Pages: <<  1    2    3    4    5    6    7  >>
ATS Members have flagged this thread 1 times


reply posted on 6-4-2008 @ 09:58 AM by defcon5
reply to post by weemadmental


Go back and read the thread I have already addressed this.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Is he flying a large, slow moving aircraft with the flaps extended?


reply posted on 7-4-2008 @ 10:14 AM by defcon5
reply to post by Zaphod58



Right, first the people/vehicles weren’t jet blasted (we’ll just skip the vortex/wake turbulence/jet blast issue for the moment since its like slamming my head against a brick wall ), then they were rocked by the blast. The aircraft passed within feet of a witness. How many feet, 10 or 1000 feet? People do have the tendency to remember certain events in an exaggerated fashion, and to use embellished language when retelling a story for dramatic effect. That is one of the problems with that Craig CIT guy, he basis his research too much on eyewitness testimony. Unfortunately, if you ask ten different witnesses of an event about it, you’re going to get ten different stories. Then to make matters worse, many people feel that if their story is not spectacular enough then they will not receive attention about it. Either way though, Ultima cannot seem to make up his mind on what the evidence is. It appears he changes it from post to post, just to carry on the argument.

Strawman argument at its finest…
This thread is starting to remind me of arguing with a teenager.


reply posted on 7-4-2008 @ 03:23 PM by weemadmental
www.metacafe.com... e%20images.eatliver.com

Point proven, the people and the cars in the video arent blown about, there is no evidance about the wind vorticies or jet wash affecting any one or thing and the 747-400 is a much heavier that the 757, and the aircraft is in the landing config with flaps down, no wash!!

Can we now close this thread and stop these people going on and on with no shread of evidance

Wee Mad Mental



reply posted on 7-4-2008 @ 06:40 PM by mirageofdeceit
Ultima is partially correct in what he is saying. I invite you to stand on the beach at St. Maarten whilst something big like a 747 lands, and decides to go-around!

Low enough for ya?
www.airliners.net...

How about this: www.airliners.net...

Actually no, most modern fighter aircraft use low bypass trubo-fans and not turbojets. Only older aircraft like the F-4 Phantom use turbojets like the J79. And while flying high might keep you safe from triple A it will make you a big fat target for any SAM battery.

I agree.

[edit on 7-4-2008 by mirageofdeceit]


reply posted on 7-4-2008 @ 07:57 PM by weedwhacker
Originally posted by ULTIMA1
Originally posted by Zaphod58
And for the 5th time, you are confusing jet blast with wing vortices. Which I'm seriously starting to think you are doing on purpose.


Well the FAA has regulations on length between planes taking off becasue of jet blast.

We all know that the major turbulence is caused by low speed landings with gear and flaps down, not high speed and clean. So the one of the casues of turbulence at the Petagon would have been jet blast.



ULTIMA....perhaps the good guys, defcon and Zaph haven't gotten thru to you yet, so I'll chime in...

Up above you stated take-off separation was due to jet blast? Completely wrong. The timing between take-offs is entirely due to....spacing for ATC purposes. AND, a 'heavy'....that is, any airplane capable of take-off weights over 250,000 lbs, is designated a 'heavy'...irrespective of its actual weight. A B757-200, although not designated a 'heavy' in ATC parlance, or in ATC communications, is still treated with the same separation standards since it has be come to the attention of FAA that the wake turbulence generated by a B757, in the landing config, is very strong, so it gets 'special mention'...

To clarify....perhaps you should go buy a scanner and listen to aviation frequencies....start at 121.7, or 121.9 (VHF band)....those are ground control frequencies. Ask t your neares airport, you'll find a pilot willing to provide the local (tower) freq, as well as the Approach and Departure control freqs...have him give you an old Jeppesen chart, after he's done the revision, before he throws it away....lots of good info there.....


reply posted on 7-4-2008 @ 08:03 PM by weedwhacker
reply to post by mirageofdeceit



mirage, (great avatar!!!)

second photo you posted, not a B747....as you prolly know. AirFrance A340.

There's a show, seen in the US, and in Australia, it seems....called 'Mythbusters'. They have devoted some shows to 'myths' about whether a taxi-cab actually got blown over whilst behind an airplane taking off....Turns out, it is an 'urban' myth...because... unless the taxi was driving across the end of the runway, the forces were not sufficient...


reply posted on 7-4-2008 @ 09:25 PM by weedwhacker
reply to post by ULTIMA1



ULTIMA, looked at your 'jet engine sim'....you do realize, don't you, that the effects of the thrust diminish by the square of the distance?

What I mean is, to the outsider, you see a tremendous drop-off of the thrust vector...

What's important, though, is how the engine affects the vehicle it is attached to. The energy imparted by the engine, propels the vehicle, at the moment by moment process, if you want to think of it that way.

In an airplane, there are other forces at work as well...go to a Flight School, and you'd learn about the 'four' forces....thrust, which we're discussing, and 'drag', commonly thought to be anti-thrust, but we'll keep it simple. There is always gravity (weight) of course, and finally...lift.

Lift is produced by forward motion through the air. Gravity can produce a forward motion through air, since we're talling about a wing producing such lift. Ever notice how a glider can stay aloft for hours at a time?

Other way, if you're not in a glider, to produce lift and not have to rely on thermals, is to have an engine. Thus, you have a powerful component of thrust, another source of energy besides gravity and thermal uplifts, and now you can design airplanes that are effecient in their own way...and can actually take you somewhere, rather than just be a toy (no offense to any glider pilots out there, I know it is a sport...an art...)

Back to point....the engine provides thrust, and the result of the energy imparted to keeping the airframe aloft is devoted to, well, keeping the airframe aloft!

If you want to examine the exhaust gas speed from an engine, whil the airplane is on the ground, then what you are looking at is....the exhaust gas speeds as energy is being exerted to move a mass (the airplane) from a standstill, to another speed.

If an airplane is taxiing, there is no need to advance the throttles, once motion is started. In fact, in some cases, just idle power provides too much 'thrust', once the airplane is in motion. We may have to 'ride' the brakes....but that's a poor idea, since it induces brake wear, and just adds heat, and we need those brakes in case of a rejected take-off.

There was a time, years ago, when some pilots would put a few engines into reverse, during taxi, to keep taxi speed down, without brakes....but, then there's greater potential for FOD....finally, and this is the solution today...taxi with one or more (if more that two engines) shut down. Saves fuel, prevents the fast taxi, and subsequent brake prob! Bingo!

At my airline, we were authorized for the single engine taxi, on the B737, but not the B757 nor B767. That may have changed in the last few years, I don't know. Reason is, there has to be a procedure, and a checklist, written for such conditions. AND, since we flew both the B757 and B767, and at times, a B767 would be so heavy that it would NEED both engines to initiate taxi, then there was no procedure to cover all contingencies, hence...all two-engine taxis was the rule.

[spelling]







[edit on 4/7/0808 by weedwhacker]
Pages: <<  1    2    3    4    5    6    7  >>    ^^TOP^^



Why the Pentagon?
  Posted 3 days ago with 12 member flags
NEVER FORGET 9-11….Maybe we SHOULD forget.
  Posted 11 days ago with 11 member flags
Personal Theory on The Twin Towers Plane Pilots
  Posted 0 days ago with 8 member flags
The 9/11 Hijackers: Fraud in Official Video Exhibits Uncovered
  Posted 1 days ago with 7 member flags
Note from trapped workers surfaces 10 years after 9/11
  Posted 1 days ago with 6 member flags
Where were you when the world stopped turning...
  Posted 2 days ago with 4 member flags