I believe I may have found the tree of knowledge!

ok in the beggining we were not to eat meat. but after the great flood in genisis when noah came off the ark he was told it was ok to eat meat by God i dont remember if it was before he made a sacrifece or not but its in there around chapter six.

reply to post by kleverone


I gave you a star and a flag for a very freshing appraoch

i've never heard this before and it was interesting to think about


but the only problem i find with it is that the bible makes many references to when you can eat meat.

God says all the seeds and animals are ours (i suck at verbatim)
but

it seems to me, that the bible its self doesnt allow it to be a vegetarian'esque argument

I don't really think adam was given permission to eat meat.

He was given all seed bearing plants and fruits to eat.

He was given dominion over the animals, but not to eat them.

To eat meat is to be carnivorous. I don't think that was the intention.

Read the book again.

Edit to add: To eat from the fruit of knowledge of good and evil was to gain a concsience. This seperated the Man from the Animal.


Forethought.

[edit on 2-7-2008 by interestedalways]

reply to post by interestedalways


Read the book again?
First off - if you're being snippy - why not knock it off right now.

Secondly - the "book" doesnt have "the answers"

so reading it again wont produce a difference of opinion from me. I know what it says - who doesnt know genesis most of all from people who study the bible?

Im no biblica scholar, but i've tried "reading the bible" from page 1 to the end and i ALWAYS loose interest after genesis

so needless to say - i've read Genesis a few times.

Im no expert

given dominion over the animals - doesnt say you can or cant eat animals

but

later on, many times in the bible, it talks about eating meat, and when you can and cannot do it

so why would God change God's mind if God didnt want us to eat meat in the first place?

If eating meat was original sin

why would God tell us later on in the bible to commit sin?


it is still a very interesting out-of-the-box ideal. Im not bashing the OP, im just disagreeing :shk:

To eat meat is to be carnivorous. I don't think that was the intention

what does this mean?

To eat meat = canivorous
To eat greens = vegetarian
to eat both = omnivore

There are omnivores in the animal kindgom.....so why couldnt humans be the same?

[edit on 7/2/2008 by Andrew E. Wiggin]

I believe the post at the top of this page may answer those questions that you have.

Thanks for the compliment on the thread.

Originally posted by Andrew E. Wiggin
reply to post by interestedalways

 

Read the book again?
First off - if you're being snippy - why not knock it off right now.

Snippy? HaHaHa! I really have no desire personally to read the book again because the book was written by Man, not what so many want to call the supreme being? (God)

Secondly - the "book" doesnt have "the answers"

Nope, but it does have many answers or clues for those with Eyes to See and Ears to Hear.

so reading it again wont produce a difference of opinion from me. I know what it says - who doesnt know genesis most of all from people who study the bible?

I don't know genesis that well. I doesn't answer many questions for me. For instance I do know it says that "god" made all seed bearing things for man to eat. I would believe we shouldn't have started injesting blood. When we did that perhaps we began to worship one of the elohim who desired such, rather that one of the elohim who opted for mankind to have a system that didn't consume the flesh of others. This god who liked carniverous behaviour is most likely the one who favored Able's gift over Cain's.

Im no biblica scholar, but i've tried "reading the bible" from page 1 to the end and i ALWAYS loose interest after genesis

Most people do lose interest. The Jewish people may possibly have distorted the bible early on to keep the truth of the alchemical workings to themselves. It isn't for all to know God. Just use blind faith, go through life knowing nothing and don't use you own mind. That is what you are instructed to do, isn't it? Yet the Jesuits and the early followers of the old testemant have many secrets and understandings of the universal mechanisims that the rest are forbidden to explore.

so needless to say - i've read Genesis a few times.

Im no expert

Yes, my friend, I also have attempted the meaning of the book of genesis. I like the word GENE. And I am infatuated with the part about the Sons of God mating with the Daughters of Man. Also the gene ology of Cain and the part about putting animosity between her seed and his, this implies to me they were not of the same bloodline to begin with.

given dominion over the animals - doesnt say you can or cant eat animals

Do you think it is morally right to eat other flesh and blood just because you can? Do you not think that by partaking of the flesh and blood of another being your body remains pure? Don't get me wrong......I eat mean. But I wish I didn't. I feel that it dirties my blood and circulatory system and takes from the purity of my instinctual being. By absorbing another being's life form it becomes part of you. IMO

later on, many times in the bible, it talks about eating meat, and when you can and cannot do it

Would you like some big giant being to eat you because it is higher on the food chain? Do you think devouring flesh is something that civilized gentle people would do? NO, yet we are conditioned to do so because we are greedy opportunist and we think everything is for our consumption. This is why we are stuck here on this planet, we are hedonistic devourers who think this planet is for our gluttony.

so why would God change God's mind if God didnt want us to eat meat in the first place?

Who said god changed his mind? Man changed god's mind cause meat tasted good so they wrote it in the book. God never once told me what to eat. But once when I told a lie and looked in the mirror gloating about it his presence surrounded me and he/she/it allowed me to understand that a being of love was around and wanted me to know right and wrong. The feeling was of "knowing" that God is and God is Watching.

If eating meat was original sin

why would God tell us later on in the bible to commit sin?

Just maybe original sin was seperating from god and splitting into male and female and feeling sexual urges to satisfy and procreate. After seperating we all long to return to back to the perfect wholeness of male female beingness. Eating meat just took it to the next level of animilistic survival rather cooperation and LOVE, the love that comes from being complete and not eating or being naked or having sex or making judgements as to right and wrong, like should we eat meat!

To eat meat = canivorous

Hunter, protector, warrior

To eat greens = vegetarian

Gentle, evolved, water to wine

to eat both = omnivore

animal

There are omnivores in the animal kindgom.....so why couldnt humans be the same?

To eat the flesh, meat of another is to bring part of it's life into your body. We are so far from perfection because we are bogged down with animal lifeforms in us.



[edit on 3-7-2008 by interestedalways]

reply to post by interestedalways


Sharks eat meat
[some] birds eat meat
Baboons eat meat
lions eat meat


i think you get the picture There are animals in the animal kingdom that eat meat.

I dunno if God intended for us to eat meat or not. I believe if original sin was eating meat, that the bible would be a little more descriptive of this. Just my opinion however.

In the bible, it speaks of fisherman
Jesus multiplied fish for all those people (2000 or whatever? )

I dont know. I know you say the post at the top of this page explains it, but i cant find it in reference to that location in the bible.

I can find no where that says God told us not to eat meat..
But if the Word of God (Jesus) eat fish, i really just have a hard time seeing any correlation.

where was your source that eating meat makes the head grow bigger? Headsize doesn't seem to signify intelligence in the animal world. Birds are one of the smartest animals? And some/most eat meat.
Why would eating from the tree of knowledge before the tree of life matter? That is the question I would like answered. To know more first before actually living it and experiencing it. Experience comes before knowledge. Experience begets knowledge. Knowing you are going to die makes us push to understand (Knowledge and Experience) life. I bet that fruit of knowledge exploded their heads. If they had just lived ( had life), they would have been given the knowledge? I need more coffee....

I am the tree and I have life.

there is a Christian belief, that the tree was not a literal tree and the serpent was another name for Satan.

The belief is Eve has sex with Satan which spawned the bloodline of Cane.

But in those days, the talk of sex was taboo, so the story was told in a parable.

reply to post by xstealth


Had not heard that theory, Very very interesting. Thanks for sharing.

reply to post by seagrass

The article points out that early humans (e.g., australopithecines, 4 to 1.2 mya) had chimpanzee sized brains, while H. erectus (AKA H. ergaster) had a brain twice that size (c. 1000 cc). We evolved, along with our cousins the Neandertals, around 500,000 to 200,000 years ago, with brain sizes of about 1300 cc and 1500 cc, respectively. It was meat that allowed the skull to expand for brain growth "according to a long-standing body of evidence." A very long standing body of evidence since it is found in Engel's article.

LINK

Deep subject... Here are some thoughts I have had on the subject... I will try to keep it somewhat coherent ...

and adam KNEW eve ....

The tree of knowledge must tie into death ....

Death being?
a Universal mandate of procreation.

You die ONLY because you were born.

When you eat you will surely die.

Clearly Adam and Eve did not die right away, they existed for what 1,000 yrs after the so called consumption?

To partake and then live 1,000 years before dying aint so bad.
To partake and then as a result have your species slowly become extinct is a lot worse.
I think the geneology listed in the bible shows a steady decline in life expectancy.

My spirit shall not always strive with the man for also he is flesh.
yet his days shall be 120 yrs.
This must refer to altering genes. the alteration causes the gene to turn cancerous and then die. A monkey cannot evolve into a man because the genes would first die of 'cancer'?



Anyhow, back to the subject...



There are two incidents that occur regarding the tree.

1. Serpent and Eve partake or engage .... the result is Cain?
2. Adam and eve partake or engage .... the result is Abel?

Clearly the partaking of this tree 'fruit' resulted in atleast two births.

Since we are all born when a 'seed' is fertilized,,, male/female union.
We are all clearly under the mandate of death.

Enter Christ, who being 'sinless' did not fall under the 'procreation mandate' and therefore was able to defeat death.

The tree of knowledge must be tied to the sexual intercourse that produces humans.

I cannot see anyway around it ....



The original sin would be sexual intercourse which results in procreation.
This makes Christ ... sinless (as i already mentioned.)

Also, on another note ...

The relationship between kro-magnon and neanderthal man is the same relationship spoken of in genesis regarding 'earth men' and 'giants' ...
Kro-magnon appeared seemingly from no where.
Was he the result of a mixing of the serpents genes with the genes of Eve?
or the mixing of a later superior being with a later human being?

"The sons of god saw the daugthers of men ...."

As we humans today physically strive to be as our superior parent(serpent), our genes turn cancerous and we die ... A Universal safeguard perhaps?

I am far from a scholar, but it all just seems to add up to procreation being the original sin, which results in death entering the picture ...
Thinking along these lines would seem to explain how Christ was able to defeat Death ...

The serpent knowing that 'birth' comes before 'death' used that fact to fool the woman into intercourse.

" You will not surely die but quite the contrary..?"



Now, if the garden is merely a metaphor for the human 'flesh' condition. A child comes forth from in the 'midst' of the women or better yet, her womb ... Womb being the inspiration for the term ' woman' ?

The tree would be located in the same place an embryo is located.

She gives live birth to an entity that MUST one day die ...

Originally posted by interestedalways
I am the tree and I have life.

Yes you do ...

sorry, double posted for some reason ...

[edit on 6-7-2008 by ShawNee922]

hmm i must be reading a diffrent bible or something, the genisis i read said that part everyone know about god saying not to eat of the tree in the mist.But the intresting thing is that god didnt through adam and eve out of the garden,It states the SONS of god did this,not god..
It also states that they did this becuse there where scared,It saya that we ate from the tree of knowlege and we know what the SONS of god knew,and we should be thrown out of the garden lest we eat from the tree of life and live forever...
The SONS of god didnt want us living as long as them,It states that instead of man and the SONS of god being in constant strife,that teh SONS of god shortend out life spans so we wouldnt strife with themm...
If you realy read it u see that alot of the stuff done to us wasnt by god but by the SONS of god.We had there intelect after we ate from the tree,and we would have lived forever had we ate from the tree of life,and that didnt sit well with the current ruleing power being the SONS of god.
The only reason god told us not to eat from the tree was becuse he already forsaw a rift between the SONS of god and man, if we became there equal.
On a side note if u look at ancient history the SONS of god are akin to the rulers of sumaria,IF u belive in atlantis,the SONS of god are likend to that alantis people.Its realy hard to enslave another race if they are ur equal in knowledg and life span...So they just kept the tree of life,so Sonsof god would live 900 years,and we wouldnt.

reply to post by Skyfloating


I'm pretty sure the Apple idea came from Greek Myth, specifically the Garden of Hesperides with its Golden Apples and the Big Serpent that guarded them. In the Jewish tradition the fruit has been a type of fig.

Norse myth also has a tree with Golden Apples that the aesir have to eat to stay immortal, the goddess that tends the apples is called Idun. Kind of sounds like Eden, hmm. Tree of Life? hmm.

reply to post by jimmyjackblack


Just wanted to mention Lilith is in the book of Isaiah. She has always been regarded as one of the Shedim, a type of demonic entity also mentioned in the Bible.

Now as for the whole first wife of Adam idea, I am not entirely sure about that. She as far as I know has always been regarded as a powerful demonic being, some sages even say she is some kind or monarch or ruler over the Shedim. I don't know about that either, but I figure she's pretty powerful among the Shedim to be mentioned by name.

I don't entirely agree with the idea that she was the Serpent either. I think the Nahashim/Tannim are something else entirely.

[edit on 6/7/08 by MikeboydUS]

reply to post by kleverone


i think the holy spirit talked to you,weird cause for years ,i was sure of this,i eared that story when i was young but never found the scriptures about,i was told that Adam and Eve killed a animal,eated it,and use the skin to make some fur,its a hour im looking on the net for this,and you say it.and take a look at what i found on hebrew original scriptures of Genesis.kinda of mixte up,but their some clues,they eated organick,physical,not vegetative...hmmm books.google.ca...,non-pas-tu-consomm eras+de-quoi-&source=bl&ots=irA6tDBw9D&sig=YjSQ15PAm0S-pH_Uh495lu7bjkk&hl=en&ei=O1EkTriTFqfl0QGe7tGrAw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=6&ved=0CEo Q6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=Mais-de-la-substance-physique%20de-la-connaissance%20du-bien-et-du-mal%2Cnon-pas-tu-consommeras%20de-quoi-&f=false

reply to post by Andrew E. Wiggin


yeah but there more translation mistake you would guess,Jeremiah 8,8 ,he did not multiply fish,at any time,they drop there net and follow him,and on the mountain,it was grape and bread,same components from last super.exept,grape was in juice(wine) www.thenazareneway.com... 14