Originally posted by Vanitas
Where and WHEN exactly are we going to use that wisdom, perfection, our bettered selves?
If we are already a part of G-d, or in G-d's image, or G-d's face(t)s - and we're supposed to ascend (back?) to that godly state... what would be
the purpose of that, since G-d is by definition perfect and all-encompassing (at least it was so the last time I looked ; ))?
Absolutely. And that is one of the "reasons" I feel most "spiritual people" fail to achieve the "state" they are hoping for. It would not so
much be an ascension back to some perfect state, but rather a realization that you are in this perfect state in the immediate present. Now. Not at
the end of some process, not after certain things have happened, or have been done by you.
The structure of the mind itself causes us (as we know ourselves, our "identities" or "ego's") to make assumptions, and these assumptions in the
differing spiritual traditions are "dualism" or "judgment." Regardless what you call it, it is the same concept. The splitting of "what is,"
something wholly un-dividable, or more accurately something beyond
our concept of division, totally alien to it, into "parts" and labeling
them. (Good/bad, now/then, pleasure/suffering, alive/dead, etc.)
The "lesson" if one chooses to call it that, is to bring ones awareness, ones Consciousness, into focus and "realize" perfection NOW. Not create
it, not pursue it, those are only superficially different versions of the same "imperfection" or "error." But to see it, become aware of it,
right now. In the immediate present. Not by trying, again trying is "not the way," but by accepting, surrendering to "What is," and experiencing
it without struggle or the desire to escape or change it.
So yes, Nirvana is "absence." Absence of desire to escape, struggle, dualism, polarity, division. It is, as you point out, also not "joy" and
pleasure, as these are also dualistic, judgmental, but it is a "bliss." I think many teachers have tried to point out that "bliss" is a
translation of a word that English has no real correlary for. I would say that the state, being utterly devoid of dualism is indescribable with
language, since language itself is "dualistic" or used to point out differences. It is a pointer only, not a literal "truth."
What is the purpose? Well, just an opinion, but this is how it occurs to me. There are people who play video games that get so fiercely identified,
"attached" to their characters, or goals in the game, or "possesions" in the game, that the loss of or injury to any of these causes them
suffering. Depression, sadness, rage, anger, stress, etc. Although it is a game, and meant to be "fun," for some people it sure doesnt look like
fun. People have even committed suicide, or killed other people over offenses committed to their character or possession in the "game."
A game is most "fun" when it is played for the experience of playing alone. "Win" or "lose." If you "have" to hit some level, or accomplish
some task, it is less enjoyable. Particularly if you fail to accomplish your goal.
Many of the great teachers seem to be saying that Awareness itself of the experience of Being, (non-dualistically, regardless of life/death) is the
whole point. Embodiment offers particular experiences, and so this state is "something to be experienced" as gaming is to humans. Being able to
have "fun" doing this, despite the architecture of the mind's predisposition to "judge" or "divide" into "good/bad" seems to be the point.
Experiencing "heaven on Earth" by not judging even the judgment of the mental apparatus in the moment. Being Aware, and conscious of the experience
of Being, without allowing the mind and its judgments to overwhelm that experience of Being with "struggle against" or "desire to escape" or even
"I like this I dont want it to end."
That to me seems the point. Realizing perfection IS, right now, "not moving towards it," (which would then be away from it if it is here, now) or
"creating it." After all, even the experience of "time" is divisive, dualistic, and incompatible with the mystic description of the Divine or
"All that is."
[edit on 9-4-2008 by Illusionsaregrander]