protection of information sources.

MR PENNY.

Oh, Im sorry to answer a thread that you don`t know what it is about, implies that you cannot read, It is about being able to protect sources of information from possible repercussions. It should not be a personal attack on other members, as you seem to think, just a question which needs to be read, digested, and answered with truth!

[edit on 4-4-2008 by Qwenn]

[edit on 4-4-2008 by Qwenn]

Originally posted by Qwenn
reply to post by LateApexer313

 

I thought this site was about controversy? well perhaps you have been here long enough to have a considered opinion, whoops sorry I did`nt realise that you have only been here a matter of days!

Enough said!

that was funny

Originally posted by MrPenny
reply to post by Qwenn

 

Ironic.....considering your happy, positive, uplifting comments in this thread. And probably about stuff you know nothing about.

Bye.....don't let the screen door hit ya' in the butt!!!!

Edit: Uh oh.


[edit on 4-4-2008 by MrPenny]

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOAH!

[edit on 4-4-2008 by ItsFrickenAndrew]

It may not be necessary to reveal the name of a source but something about that person's background would be nice. Just stating there is a source only isn't saying anything to backup the info. I will admit is a difficult subject to address.

Did you send you info/request, whatever, to more than one mod here? You seem to feel you were mistreated or something was covered up.

reply to post by roadgravel


Yes I did send it to more than one Mod, but it was never acknowledged, only by the thread being closed because I would not reveal the source directly, to someone with military connections. This was the main reason that I refused to be specific on details.

I guess the concept is that if you're the thread starter, you can be uncivil and outside the bounds of decorum.....at least, that's what I'm seeing.

I don't recall anyone asking you for "sources" in your last thread about nothing. The burning question seemed to be...."what are you writing about?".

Yeah, it's legitimate to ask for your sources. I don't think anyone's expecting photos and social security numbers....just something...anything.

I have a gripe about one mod in perticular. He moves my threads as though he thinks that just because he has a very high IQ, my opinion about where my thread should be is misguided, and I think that is disrespectful. The mods should at least take a second or two to figure out why the thread was posted there.... like READ at least part of the thread! If the OP states a good reason as to why a thread should be in a certain forum, the post should stay where it is! I mean, all of this shuffling of posts really seems like overkill sometimes. I like organization as much as anyone, but just because a General Conspiracy thread mentions something about aliens, why should be moved to Aliens and UFOs?

If I write a thread in the Origins and Creationism forum that describes my theory on the origins and creationism of the world/universe, what gives a Mod the right to deem my theory as not worthy, and then totally disrespected by it being thrown into the skunkworks forum? I post in skunkworks when I know my theories have no basis in science or no evidence to back them up, so I do know the merit of the skunkworks existence.... but when you are talking about origins and creationism, it's all pretty much speculation anyway, so WHY is my speculation not worthy on a site that's supposedly a very liberal place, as long as you don't have a big potty mouth?

I think the OP of this article has something of a point here. I think maybe he should not get frustrated and leave, though. We're all on here searching. The problem, OP, is that people need to be more trustworthy, less judgemental, and less in this for their own agenda. This is a community, but sometimes we don't act very communal. For a site that is supposed to encourage the study of fringe topics, there is way too much discouraging of ideas on here... and the Mods are not innocent of discouraging people away from posting. I'm not talking about all mods, but those who know they do that, you know who I'm talking about. Those who don't know they do that, but for some reason are taking this very personally, maybe need to take a second look at the makeup of their character and why they are really here.

I'm sure there are a few mods on here that just find the job entertaining, and could care less about the validity or invalidity of what members discuss. That should definitely be addressed, because if you don't have a passion for finding and facilitating REAL truth, I don't think you should be a part of this site. There's no real protocol anyone could follow to make sure of that, but I think upper management of this site definitely needs to take a look at their priorities in all of this, too. I mean, if they aren't as dedicated to real truth as some of us, maybe that's a reflection of how this site seems to operate, when you back away and look at the big picture. I just don't know enough about the management of this site to say one way or the other.

Personally, I still think there are things of importance on this site, but it's up to the individual to be able to go fishing for it. Nobody said finding the truth would be as easy as joining a discussion forum, so take what you will and leave the rest. Nobody said that you'll find instant gratification in your search for answers either. You get bits and pieces or truth here and there, and it's such a long drawn out process, that you barely notice, until one day BOOM it all locks into place. That day may not come until the day that you die, and this brings up another good point about the search for the truth and this website....

A lotta people in search for the truth are in search of it for the wrong reason. They wanna be the ones to say "Yep, that was me who discovered the giant American Lie. Yep yep. Me me me!" They want the merit. They don't REALLY want the truth, in that case. They just wanna feel important, as do we all, so you can't point the finger and say "BAD GUY!".

So really, it's a question of what you wanna take with you when you die? Do you want knowledge or do you want self worth? I hope I don't have to tell you that one of those desires is meaningless when the self dies.

To tie this all together neatly with the original discussion....

There are bad employees wherever you go to get the things that you need. You can't let a few people be the judge of them all. Also, if you know exactly what you are looking for, and you take time to research it, you will know who to talk to, and you will know what to talk about.... especially if you yourself have information.

Also, if you are a person with important information, get it out there and get it out there fast, to WHOMEVER, to anyone that will look. It's dangerous, but you knew that already.

To all whistleblowers, what is more important? Your selfish desires, or the truth? Would you be willing to die for it? If not, well then you shouldn't know the truth in the first place.

Annnnnnd I'm done.

Originally posted by indierockalien
because if you don't have a passion for finding and facilitating REAL truth, I don't think you should be a part of this site.

That's a sentiment that I agree with 100%. The point here is, the OP, in his last thread, offered nothing to advance the "finding and facilitating of REAL truth". Stated he/she would offer some sources to the moderators and accept their verdict......and now, he/she is trashing them because he/she doesn't like the outcome. And now, here the poster is again....offering what? More drama....more attention getting.

No replies from the Op.

Guess it is basically what was stated in the other thread. The OP here didn't add anything to as why he felt the way he did. Guess it really doesn't amount to anything.

Originally posted by Qwenn
I asked if being asked to reveal your sources was ethical, or not.

Consider your question answered. Yes, it's ethical.

Spread the word to people and do it every chance you have
Speak to each other, invite friends over, have discussions, organize, move, promote and do it facking loud!!!

Face to Face, yo!

Internets is good, but its only that
!!!We people are Greatest!!!

Peace

reply to post by MrPenny


mr penny, i'm fairly new here, but what i don't understand, is there really a post that requires proof and sources before it can be shown and discussed by the members here? is it because of libel laws? or name calling? i'm not quite sure why anything cannot be posted here, as long as it conforms the the rules of the board. what great lack of source did this OP not want to divulge...this is very strange

If I were to put myself in the OP's shoes, I think I would feel exactly the same way.

Now granted I don't know what types of words were exchanged between Quwenn and the Mod/s.

But just going on, we want infomation from YOU to know you are legit, and your sources are legit, but you cannot ask for any information about us, seems to me like one would be takeing a HUGE if not stupid risk by giving information to an unknown internet screename.

All I can say to Quwenn(sp?) if something in your gut tells you this doesn't feel right, don't do it.

Also I would like you to stay here, but if the ONLY thing that can differentiate your post from a made up story is names, and credentials of so called witnesses ect, well then you have a problem.

Post it in the Skunkworks forum.

But if you have something else , photos, data, ect to go along with the story/incedent, well then Mods should not be U2U'ing you on the side asking for names and places ect. As far as I know thats not ATS protocal.

I could be wrong, but again, it is odd when someone wants you to trust them, on word alone, over the internet no less.

HOWEVER- in my somewhat short time here, I've come to the gut feeling that the owners of this sight are extremely trustworthy. (I know back to take my word for it), but really if your worried, contact Springer. I would say again from my somewhat short time here here is 99% trustworthy with any information you were to give him , and would only use it to verify you, and/or your witnesses.

Again it comes down to a matter of trust.

Its been pretty obvious for a long time that there are certain people here on ATS that are here only for the sole purpose of not letting any inside information out into the public domain. MrPenny is one of those people.

When John Lear was here he use to viciously attack poor old John constantly. Springer almost banned MrPenny because it got so bad. the proof of that lies within these very threads. Unless of course that one particular thread just so happened to get accidentally lost when moving Johns threads. Would not surprise me if that was actually the case, and right now im too tired to go dig it up.

I have to give MrPenny credit for one thing though, he has toned down his nastyness quite a bit. He is not as bad as he use to be.

*sigh* There is so much hostility being thrown around in this thread. I opened it because I am genuinely curious as to its background. Rather than recognizing that they simply disagree and have vastly differing perspectives, people are resorting to telling one another that they “don’t know what they’re talking about,” and other personal attacks. Why is this necessary, and how is it in any way productive?

On topic:

Can you (OP) forget about whatever anger or frustration you are experiencing just long enough to calmly, systematically explain what happened, how it was handled by the mods in question, in chronological order?

This isn't an attempt to debunk or deride your experience. I'm genuinely curious.

reply to post by Qwenn

Does this have something to do with the post from a couple of days ago. If so why not just post it now if you are going to leave. What a better way to get back at them

Originally posted by Qwenn

What protection of sources of information are in place, when Moderators ask for their names, ranks and serial numbers, when you start a thread? I for one am not prepared to put someone elses neck up for the block, when it is me posting a thread.

Qwenn, I have followed along commenting on, or reading a few of your threads. There was a particular one I found very interesting. The one about your friend that accepted the job to work on some sort of top secret project, and left you in charge of cleaning up his place after he left. (Sorry, I don't remember the title to that thread)

Now, I haven't looked at that one lately, but it went on for several pages and as I recall, you got upset at members for asking you to provide specifics.

It was a very intruiging story. But that is all it was........ a story.

If you don't feel comfortable supplying information to verify your claims, why are you even bothering to start some of these threads? They are just stories without anything to back them up, or to verify them.

Nobody has to have their head put on a block. Not you, or your sources. Just don't start a thread, and then you have nothing to worry about.

I do believe that part of the nature of this site, is for people to question what they read so that they know what they are reading is not just a story.

Originally posted by jimmyx
what great lack of source did this OP not want to divulge...this is very strange

Ya' gotta' pay attention. No one was asking for a "source" in the thread in question. Many of the posters simply wanted to know what the heck he was talking about. That's it....there's no mystery or drama....

If I'm wrong, go pull a quote from the thread where "sources" are explicitly asked for or demanded.

This isn't rocket science.....I read the English words typed here, follow the thoughts and ideas presented, and make a conclusion. If you don't pay attention to the content and context....you get lost quick. Know whut I mean?

Originally posted by housegroove23
MrPenny is one of those people.

Sure, it's me....I'm responsible for information not getting to the public domain. I actually have the keys to the kingdom here....type something I don't like and I touch my magic key and viola!!!!, the information disappears.

Get real....I'm just another poster like you.

Qwenn I think you need to learn how to stop letting people worm their way into your emotions. I really don't think this has anything to do with what others are trying to "make" you do as far as releasing particulars. I think your problem is your letting these people with a "superiority complex" perhaps, get to you. When somebody is trying to pressure you into something you don't wanna do, you need to take a stand and so no and not let that bother you. Stop caring so much what others think and let things go.

And people need to also understand that some information is just to sensitive to be released. Some information such as peoples names and other personal info can cause major repercussions if leaked in certain situations. In a situation where this sort of information is not willfully being shared then stop pressuring the person, its not your place to use any tactics to pressure these people into giving this info. Such info could cause a person their life in more ways then one. At this point its left to you to perhaps research the topic with the information given or leave.

Be courteous and respect others wishes. Thats my 2 copper coins.

reply to post by Qwenn


I just read through all of your 2 whole threads, where you claimed to be mistreated and shuffled off to forums you didn't first post in, not including this one.

In your ZOZ thread, after only a few posts you said this:

"Sorry, but I need a little time to assess the information I have, sorry if this "is a one line post so I will add ?????????????????

If it is removed, I will understand."

Then this, after 2 more posts:

"Thanks for the reply, I will reply when I have a little more info on this, but as I have said, with permission from the members only, otherwise it is just conjecture."

Then this, after just two more posts:

"Hey wait a minute, I understand that you are a long standing member, but if you will give a little slack, and leniancy, you may well discover something, I have not been a member as long as you, but if you look at my postings, you will see how cynical I am about many things! Be patient and then beat me with a stick if this comes to nothing in a day or so! Thank-you."

You wouldn't even answer what ZOZ was when someone asked.

All talk, All drama, no action.

Then 2 posts later this:

"It`s getting late and I may not have time to get to the info which you have provided untill the morning as I have u2u`s to answer and a limited timescale to comply with what I asked for. But I will follow this up, Thanks."

Then Willard856 asked this : " Pretty hard to call hoax when it isn't even clear what you are talking about! "

Gee, the whole thread here had NO clue what you were talking about and asked for clarification, did you explain? No.

Then dgtempe asked posted this: "Dear Op,

I am not trying to be mean to you, but your urgency suggests something is happening now.
If we have to wait 24 hours, i'm afraid it cant be that urgent, IMO."

And you responded once AGAIN with more avoidance, no explanation etc:

"Yes I have been answering u2u`s, Hoaxers have kept threads running for weeks, all I have asked for is 24 hours before having this removed, that is not to say that something is going to happen within that timescale, only to allow me to gather any information that may help me, to make some sense of it."

How can you even sit here in this post, and claim that you posts were discriminated against with a strait face?

You dismissed me because I only have 2 months on this site as a member, which you referred to as "days" but I would imagine, that I have way more credibility then you do.

I posted all of this on just ONE page of your thread, not even following the rest of the thread, let alone the page...no one knew what you meant, you wouldn't explain, exactly like on this thread here. Give it up.


[edit on 5-4-2008 by LateApexer313]

[edit on 5-4-2008 by LateApexer313]