ATS.MIX: Above Politics Show 10

reply to post by MajKarma

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MajKarma, the opportunity to come on a future show is open to every member, and we want members to come on the show and talk about their views.

Please u2u either Justin or me.

And if the post meets the T&Cs, I would be interested to see your views on what Johnny Utah had to say.

reply to post by Martin Bain

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I really should take the time to review the show once again, and comment more specifically on the topics raised. I hope to do so soon. I would also like to thank you for the invitation, and will try to make some arrangements to follow up on it.

reply to post by _Johnny_Utah_

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In the show you stated, incorrectly, that if troops were fired upon, they could not return fire until a fifteen point checklist was completed.

EDIT to add: The link you provided does not substantiate your claims.



[edit on 4/6/0808 by jackinthebox]

One of the hardest things we can ever do , as individuals, will be to hear from people whom we disagree with. Our mission at the AP Show is to bring you more than just news that we find interesting, and our own views. The entire ATS/PTS/BTS "thang" is predicated on hearing the other guy. Agree or disagree, that's what makes this venue so special.

I'll go out on a limb here, and say that Martin and I did our job. We brought you the opinions of somebody that you might not have otherwise heard from.

reply to post by jackinthebox

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You correct...I did say that...but i also said it had gone down since the troop surge and was more on the order of 7. I was slightly exaggerating the first number in order to make my point, because on different days or different circumstance they would change....but it does not take away from the fact soldiers are under ridiculous restrictions. Seven is still too high.
I have also been told by friends who served there how ridiculous the restrictions are. The article, while it states the number is not 15...it does exemplify how dangerous these ROE are for American troops.
I hope you would agree that if a soldier is fired upon, he should be able to return fire...it is not the case in Iraq....that is my point and the point I believe most people understood.

reply to post by _Johnny_Utah_

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I do agree that the soldier should be able to return fire, and this is in fact the case, as it was for my brother who did two tours with the 4th Infantry Division, and is now in Iraq for the third time.

Rules of engagement are a part of the order of battle in any engagement, and subject to be changed in accordance with the mission.

I will say however, that the "shades of gray" regarding military rules have been detrimental to US credibility, in particular when it comes to the treatment of detainees. It is my opinion that the lack of clarity in these rules was deliberately perpetrated at worst, but at the very least was knowingly exploited by the highest levels of US leadership.



[edit on 4/6/0808 by jackinthebox]

I'm glad to see this debate.

In other news, Martin and I are pleased to say that Xpert11 is our next interview. If you have any questions for the man from New Zealand, please post them here.

Why are we doing so many interviews? Because the American news cycle is a bit slow just now. Rather than bore you, we thought it would be a good idea to lend our soap box to a variety of ATS members.

reply to post by Justin_Case

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I would like you to ask xpert11...from what I have seen, New Zealand only has non-combat troops in Iraq. Does being so close to Australia (a very strong US ally) and with NZ troops on the ground there in a limited role, does he believe it puts NZ at a greater threat to terrorists? If so, what are they doing to combat the risks?
I also think it is very interesting to know the Queen of England is also the Queen of New Zealand. What is her role in the country's government?

I love hearing the views of people from other parts of the world....good job guys!

reply to post by Justin_Case

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Well, I don't have a question for expert11, yet. But I will repeat my question for Justin: Did I correctly answer the trivia question or what?

I am going to go out on a limb here and say that since New Zealand doesn't have any troops in Iraq Johnny question should be taken in the context of the NZDF role in Afghanistan.

Cheers xpert11.

You are, in fact, the winner! Sorry for the delay. You know how it is. The life of a famous talk show host is always busy. Lots going on behind the scenes.

Dave will be by with your 500 applause points just as soo nas he can. He might be out back signing autographs after the successful debute of his "Rabbit Rain" song.

Me? I can't sing. I'm not allowed to sing. Something about the Geneva Conventions, or crimes against Humanity.

Enjoy your points, and don't spend them all in one place.

Well that doesn't stop Dave and Johnny. You're a part of the MIX team now. You MUST sing.

How 'bout a song called "Above Politics" to the tune of "Route 66"? Good, then it's settled. Can't wait to hear it!

reply to post by xpert11

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I'm sorry xpert...i thought i read there were NZDF troops in Iraq to help rebuild...sorry, man!


[edit on 7-4-2008 by _Johnny_Utah_]

No worries NZ had troops in a reconstruction role in Iraq at one stage but they were withdrawn in 2004 or 05 because the security situation meant that they didn't get much accomplished. As I said above I still think your question stands.

Tuning Spork:

I'll sing if and only if I can study from the Meistro Rabbit. How do you expect me to follow that? You'd better start circulating your petition now.

by now, you've all heard the big news. The Above Politics site is going to be merged with Above Top Secret dot-com.

None of you hard core political junkies will be losing anything by this. If anything, you'll be gaining a higher quality of product. SO plans to set up an Above Politics forum, which will be your own little oasis of positive political postulation and pragmatism.

None of this is going to impact the AP Show...at this time. Remember that all of this is a shot in the dark. A gamble. As special as our effort is, we have to be ready for change when its needed.