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Was that giant leap in AE Pyramid building really possible?

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posted on Apr, 3 2008 @ 04:51 PM
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Hi Scott, how are you, nice to participate again on your very interesting forum.
I have a question I would like to ask you.
What is your take on the following and please correct me if I make mistakes.

How on Earth is it possible that right from the beginning in 2630BC as claimed by mainstream Egyptologists the first Step Pyramid was build from nothing more [absolute not meant to be disparagement] then a number of basic mastaba’s on each other [see ***] and less then 50 years later they build the absolute Top of the Bill Great Pyramid of Khufu, and after Khufu the complete mess of Khufu’s zoon Djedefre, then again one big one of Khafre and smaller one of Menkaure and after that only ruins.

Is it really archaeological acceptable and possible that the AE make such a giant leap in their building capabilities in such an in my opinion small time span?

I use the timetable of wikipedia, en.wikipedia.org...
but perhaps there is a better one?

All images are from en.wikipedia.org...
So, from building mastaba’s made of mud-bricks or stone, to the biggest and most complex pyramid in less then 50 years?

***

A mastaba was a flat-roofed, rectangular building with outward sloping sides that marked the burial site of many eminent Egyptians of Egypt's ancient period. Mastabas were constructed out of mud-bricks or stone.

The mastaba was the standard type of tomb in early Egypt (the predynastic and early dynastic periods) for both the pharaoh and the social elite. The ancient Egyptian city of Abydos was the location chosen for many of these early mastabas.

When a mastaba was built for the burial of the Third Dynasty king Djoser, the architect Imhotep enlarged the basic structure to be a square, then built a similar, but smaller, mastaba-like square on top of this, and added a fourth, fifth, and sixth square structure above that. The resulting building is the Step Pyramid, the first of the many pyramid tombs which succeeded it.



So, the Step Pyramid of Djozer was in reality nothing more [absolute not meant to be disparagement] then a number of basic mastaba’s on each other. Djozer c. 2630 - 2612 bc Saqqara





Then in the same time period the famous first bent Pyramid was build. Sneferu c. 2612 - 2589 bc Dashur





Then again, in also the same time period as the famous first bent Pyramid was build, the red pyramid which is the 4th largest pyramid in Egypt after the Giza pyramids. Sneferu c. 2612 - 2589 bc Dashur





Then in the same time period also build by Sneferu
Sneferu c. 2612 - 2589 bc Meidum





Then miraculously some 41 to 50 years after the first one was build from nothing more [absolute not meant to be disparagement] then a number of basic mastaba’s on each other, they are capable to build the absolute biggest one and most complex of all. Khufu c. 2589 - 2566 bc Giza





Immediately after the building of the great Pyramid, and look what the son of Khufu, Djedefre build.
The son of Khufu, Djedefre c. 2566 - 2558 bc Abu Rawash





The same timeframe, and look what whey build then
Khafre c. 2558 - 2532 bcGiza





Emidiatly after that one
Menkaure c. 2532 - 2504 bcGiza





17 years later and on and on it is really a one big mess, how is that possible?
Sahure c. 2487 - 2477 bcAbu Sir






posted on Apr, 3 2008 @ 04:52 PM
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Part two.

Building that Great Pyramid.


Materials and workforce needed to build the Great pyramid as said by several experts.

A construction management study (testing) carried out by the firm Daniel, Mann, Johnson, & Mendenhall in association with Mark Lehner and other Egyptologists, estimates that the total project required an average workforce of 14,567 people and a peak workforce of 40,000.

The Egyptologists' calculations suggest the workforce could have sustained a rate of 180 blocks per hour (3 blocks/minute) with ten hour work days for putting each individual block in place.
They derived these estimates from construction projects that did not use modern machinery.

Without the use of pulleys, wheels, or iron tools, they surmise the Great Pyramid was completed from start to finish in approximately 10 years.


Source; en.wikipedia.org...

So, some 50 years after making simple mastaba’s made of mud-bricks or stone, they build one of the greatest monuments on Earth, and they did it this way as claimed by mainstream Egyptologists.
and they have done that without the use of pulleys, wheels, or iron tools,

These are the tools they used.

Copper slabbing saws
www.geocities.com...

Copper coring drills
www.geocities.com...

Stone Vessel Making
www.geocities.com...

Composition and development of ancient Egyptian tools
www.reshafim.org.il...

Just follow the numbers.

Some 15.000 to 40.000 people, needed to build the Great pyramid in about 10 years.
A workforce that have sustained a rate of 180 blocks per hour (3 blocks/minute) with ten hour work days for putting each individual block in place.
Take a real good look at this, 180 blocks per hour (3 blocks per minute) three blocks of 1.5 to 4 tons per minute, for ten ours a day, week after week, month after month and year after year.

With a number of blocks used in construction with an average above 2.3 million as most sources agrees.
With the average weight of core blocks about 1.5 to 4 tons each.
High quality limestone was used for the outer casing, with some of the blocks weighing up to 15 tonnes. This limestone came from Tura, about 14 km away on the other side of the Nile.
Granite quarried nearly 800 km away in Aswan with blocks weighing as much as 60-80 tonnes, was used for the King's Chamber and relieving chambers.

Also don’t forget the amount of work required to cut and fit all these casing stones and then cover the entire pyramid with them up to a height of about 480 feet just boggles the mind.

And don’t forget the four amazing shafts, when were they made in the stone blocks?
Before the blocks where placed, or when putting each individual block in place?
Both methods must be extremely difficult for the fact of exact alignment.
That must have cost some time?




posted on Apr, 8 2008 @ 04:47 AM
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reply to post by spacevisitor
 

Hello Spacevisitor - thanks for your post. Lots of questions there, many of which we simply do not know the answer to.

Let me start with the the evolution of the pyramid - mud brick to limestone/granite.



CAIRO (AFP) - A team of US archaeologists has discovered the ruins of a city dating back to the period of the first farmers 7,000 years ago in Egypt's Fayyum oasis, the supreme council of antiquities said on Tuesday.

"An electromagnetic survey revealed the existence in the Karanis region of a network of walls and roads similar to those constructed during the Greco-Roman period," the council's chief Zahi Hawwas said.

The remnants of the city are "still buried beneath the sand and the details of this discovery will be revealed in due course," Hawwas said.

"The artefacts consist of the remains of walls and houses in terracotta or dressed limestone as well as a large quantity of pottery and the foundations of ovens and grain stores," he added.

The remains date back to the Neolithic period between 5,200 and 4,500 BC.


From here: news.yahoo.com...

Dressed limestone in the Neolithic age? If this finding is confirmed then it would seem that Imhotep who constructed the first pyramid (the Step Pyramid at Saqqara for Djoser) from limestone blocks was perhaps only rediscovering knowledge from an earlier age that had perhaps been lost.

There is also the proposal that I have presented that the AEs - from the time of Djoser through to Menkaure - had embarked upon the implementation of an ancient plan. The AEs themselves hint at this with inscriptions in the Temple of Horus at Edfu which tells us that they received a 'codex' that fell from heaven at Saqqara containing architectural plans. This apparently occurred in the time of Imhotep and, of course, it is at Saqqara that Imhotep built the first pyramid.

If there was such a 'sacred plan from heaven' (perhaps a granite model of Giza) and the AEs began the implementation of it then there would naturally have been a learning curve. But it would not nevessarily be a long, slow learning curve. Necessity being the mother of invention the AEs would have had to find ways to solve many practical and logistical problems. By embarking upon such an ambitious, multi-generational project they had given themselves a goal, an objective and this must have been of great significance to them, perhaps even sacred. That they achieved their goal (i.e. Giza) is testimony to their complete determination and resolve to finish what they had started by whatever means it took. Humans can move mountains if the motivation to do so is strong enough.

An analogy of sorts is the Space Race of the 1960s. Kennedy announced to the world that America would land a man on the moon and return him safely back to the Earth. Now there was a goal. The director of NASA must have had a severe headache that afternoon! However, the practical and logistical problems notwithstanding - THERE WAS A GOAL! The US moved mountains to achieve it. The goal was achieved at incredible cost but achieved nevertheless. And the motivation? It was important for Kennedy to demonstrate the power of the US to the Soviets. But was there any real benefit in landing men on the moon? Well, that's a nother discussion.

There is also the possibility that the pyramids are a combination of quarried stone and aggregate stone. The quarried, larger blocks are to be found at the bottom with the aggregate stone on the upper courses. I see the scenario thus: as the lower blocks were being quarried, the loose chippings are gathered up into an aggregate mix in large casts Thus the upper blocks are effectively being made at the same time as the lower blocks are being put in place, thus reducing the time to quarry by almost half. In Area C of the plateau (to the west of Khafre's pyramid) are features known as the 'Galleries'. It was thought these represented storehouses for the Pharaoh in his Afterlife or barracks for workers. I suggest that perhaps some of these galleries could have been utilised as large aggregate mixing baths that would be needed for creating millions of stone blocks for the upper courses of the pyramids.

Hope this helps answer some of your questions.

Best wishes,

Scott Creighton



posted on Apr, 9 2008 @ 01:52 PM
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Hi Scott, thanks for your answer, much appreciated.
I still have questions of course just as you.
But I wonder, do you have or do you know where I can find a ground plan or floor plan of all the pyramids in Egypt?
I am very interested in that you know.

Thanks in advance.

Regards,

Spacevisitor.



posted on Apr, 9 2008 @ 05:29 PM
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reply to post by spacevisitor
 

Hello Spacevisitor,

Here's a couple of resources that might help you:

ngm.nationalgeographic.com...

www.aldokkan.com...

www.touregypt.net...

(And a great Giza resource)
www.gizapyramids.org...

Hope these are of some help.

Best,

Scott Creighton





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