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Chanting Frequency...

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posted on Apr, 3 2008 @ 09:23 AM
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I wanted to see if anyone else has ever noticed this that has taken part in Buddhist chanting, as I bring it up to my chant group and no one else can hear this when we chant as a group. I know I can't be the only one.

In specifics I am referring to Daishonen Buddhism and chanting the Lotus Sutra. Maybe because I play music I can hear this more easily than other people (?), but it sounds like a droning wave of sound coming from the words.

Here's an example I found on Youtube to try and explain what I mean.



Am I the only one that hears this, and if I'm not, where can I found out more information on what that wave of sound means? Its kinda hard to look up something on google when I'm not sure exactly what words I should be using to look it up.






posted on Apr, 4 2008 @ 08:45 AM
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reply to post by niteboy82
 


Sounds like the original ancient Tibetan version of the (now corrupted) popular song:



De Camptown ladies sing dis song, Doo-dah! doo-dah!
De Camptown race-track five miles long, Oh, doo-dah day!
I come down dah wid my hat caved in, Doo-dah! doo-dah!
I go back home wid a pocket full of tin, Oh, doo-dah day!



(Source: en.wikipedia.org...)



posted on Apr, 8 2008 @ 08:14 AM
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Niteboy,

Based on your description, I can confidently say yes I have heard the same thing - usually when chanting Odaimoku, but sometimes when reciting The Lotus Sutra itself.

As far as looking it up and finding out what it means, I seriously doubt that you will find out anything about it on the internet. I have heard, read about and experienced things whilst chanting/ meditating that some would call strange or mystical - but I have learned that these things are healthy and natural. For the most part there is very little on the net about what these things mean apart from speculation and dogma.

I hope that this helps

Gassho
Shoken



posted on Apr, 8 2008 @ 11:13 AM
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Niteboy,

I hope you didn't mind my little quip. Judging by your avatar you have a sense of humour.

To make amends I'll just put forward a thought on what you might be picking up: the phenomenon of resonance. I'm sure there must be endless hours of reading on this if you Google it. Whether or not you conclude that this is the explanation it is a fascinating subject.

In a nutshell, when a sound wave hits a frequency that corresponds to the natural resonant frequency of a chamber, in this case a room or a hall, the air that fills the space starts to vibrate powerfully at that particular frequency. The simplest example is when you blow across the top of a glass bottle. A very complex yet marvellous example is the human voice, whereby the vocal chords provide the vibrations and the throat, mouth and nasal cavity form the resonating chamber.



posted on Apr, 11 2008 @ 12:12 AM
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Wow, thanks to both of you! Sorry I didn't respond sooner, but I figured this thread was buried in the depths of BTS by other threads and not really noticed.

I will look into the ideas of resonance more and yes Shoken, I do believe such things are perfectly healthy, it is just odd that I hear it perfectly (like a wave) and they all don't hear it, or at the least don't notice it.

It is amazing though, and made me start appreciating the importance of what I do on a higher level. Its all hard to explain, but I have a feeling you all get my drift on what I mean.



And no pause4thought, not offended in the least, and goodness knows even on a female body if I can look at that face all day long, I must have a seriously twisted sense of humor.



posted on Apr, 11 2008 @ 08:11 AM
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Hi again Niteboy

I did manage to find a thread that might help you answer this - I have not had time to look at it myself:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Also if you have any more questions or things you would like to discuss about Nichren Buddhism or Lotus Sutra give me a shout.

Gassho

Shoken



posted on Apr, 11 2008 @ 05:22 PM
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I recently went to an oracle gathering in seattle. I'm really glad i stayed till the end,(it lasted til dawn) Because at the end of closing ceremonies we all (about 75 ppl) did 3 consecutive ohms. And it was the most beautiful thing i ever heard, it was like a symphoney of love. It was absolutley amazing. shivers



posted on Apr, 11 2008 @ 07:59 PM
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reply to post by niteboy82
 


I don't know how long you've been doing this, but all the chanting is doing is enabling a "trance like" state of mind to be achieved, which can enable spirits to influence how you think. Believe it, or not.

This is Soooooooooo NEW AGE, it just leaps off the screen at me from darn near every thread I visit on these BB's.

The chanting. droning, trance like stuff came out of the mystery religions in babylon. Modern technology [ electricity and computers ] has just improved on what has been known since the fallen angels stole secrets from heaven. The tibetan monks just use their voices.

I hope some day, before it is too late, it dawns on you, how well you've been deceived, and you divorce yourself from it. [ satan was not called the most subtle beast of the field because he was a flunky you know ]

:-)



[edit on 11-4-2008 by toasted]



posted on Apr, 12 2008 @ 09:35 AM
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Originally posted by toasted
reply to post by niteboy82
 


I don't know how long you've been doing this, but all the chanting is doing is enabling a "trance like" state of mind to be achieved, which can enable spirits to influence how you think. Believe it, or not.

This is Soooooooooo NEW AGE, it just leaps off the screen at me from darn near every thread I visit on these BB's.

The chanting. droning, trance like stuff came out of the mystery religions in babylon. Modern technology [ electricity and computers ] has just improved on what has been known since the fallen angels stole secrets from heaven. The tibetan monks just use their voices.

I hope some day, before it is too late, it dawns on you, how well you've been deceived, and you divorce yourself from it. [ satan was not called the most subtle beast of the field because he was a flunky you know ]

:-)



[edit on 11-4-2008 by toasted]

Great advice toasted, I was involved with this sect since I was 7 years old,
I gave back my gohonzon 4 years ago, after recieving from God's spirit. My mother still clings to her "practice", and sees the lotus sutra as equal to God. I have told her I never heard the sutra's speak, but they do in and of themselves describe the demon's you warn of. Chanting is an abomination, count the characters nam(1)-myoho-(2-3)renge-(4-5)kyo(6).
The vibrational frequency you hear is real, you betcha... The trance like effect is real as well. If you consider the "mystic law" to be real, I suggest you consider where it originates from. The law of "cause and effect" dictates the answer, the "law" is the effect of its "cause" which is God. Be wise, why has the priesthood and the lay organization been at war?, why was Shohondo Temple destroyed? Why can you no longer enter the temple's? There is more at work here then you have come to know.



posted on Apr, 12 2008 @ 01:59 PM
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reply to post by Shoken
 


Wow, thanks for that link to the Healing DNA thread. Very interesting stuff indeed. Thank you for the offer as well, I will keep that in mind.


reply to post by 23Eulogy23
 


Sounds awesome! I had a gathering with some friends at one point for a meditation exercise that lasted a few hours. It was probably the most amazing meditation experience I have ever had.

Thank you both for your responses.



posted on Apr, 13 2008 @ 10:14 PM
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holidaystar1,

Thanks, too bad the target of my comment does not agree! :-)



posted on Apr, 14 2008 @ 08:14 AM
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Toasted,

Im going to have to disagree with you on a number of points



posted on Apr, 14 2008 @ 08:14 AM
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whoa im going to record a wave of this, turn it into an mp3, and then load it up into some of my music editing and production programs and remix it into a fast-paced, hard, drummy dance track!




posted on Apr, 14 2008 @ 09:21 AM
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Please disregard my last post - I am still getting used to posting here.

Toasted,

I am going to have to disagree with you on a number of points:

1. Chanting and meditation do not allow spirits to influence how you think. If you have some real evidence to the contrary I would be very happy to hear it.

2. Having studied quite a bit about religion I have never heard the theory of chanting coming from babylonian mystery religions - please can you direct me to the source of your information on this point. You appear to imply that if it came from these so called mystery religions that it is some how bad - how then would you explain Gregorian chant or other sects of Christianity that have a rich history of chanting the gospels? Are they too subject to interference from diabolical forces simply because they "drone"?

3. Fallen angels stole secrets that modern technology improved upon and led to the advent of electricity and computers? Ok, Ill humour this idea for a few seconds and ask you that if this is this case are you not guilty then of using evil to do your bidding by using a computer or even switching on a light?

Respectfully, I cannot agree with any of the points in your post apart from the devil being the most adept at confusing us.

Holidaystar,

If you feel that strongly about it, why not start a thread on SGI here? Or check out one of the myriad groups on the internet that are also very confused about what SGI do. I myself am not SGI and I have met many people who have left the organisation confused and hurt. I hope that things are better for you now.

Niteboy,

Like I said, I am not SGI, nor am I a fan of SGI but rather than demonise them, I'll just say as I said before - Hi I am out here and yeah I have heard the waves too, and much much more. The most important thing in chanting and meditative practice is the peace and clarity that it brings. Many people begin to meditate and experience this only for a few moments at a time. Some people find that Meditation can bring up very unpleasant emotions and stop as a result of it. It can be a long road to travel before one can see the benefit from trying so hard. All of these things are natural and ok. In my expereince it is not the devils that whisper in your ear when you chant or meditate that you have to worry about - its the egos of other people (and yours and mine) that can cause problems.

The need to be right is a very strong religious driver. For every religious postulation out there, there is somebody else who not only says "you are wrong"; but also, "you are going to hell for it"; and sometimes, "you are going to hell for it because you deserve it"; and sometimes they even try to send you there themselves because they are convinced they are right.

Perhaps this should be in another thread?


All the best

Gassho

Shoken



posted on Apr, 14 2008 @ 11:21 AM
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Shoken,


Holidaystar,

If you feel that strongly about it, why not start a thread on SGI here? Or check out one of the myriad groups on the internet that are also very confused about what SGI do. I myself am not SGI and I have met many people who have left the organization confused and hurt. I hope that things are better for you now.

Thanks but no thanks; I am not confused about SGI. There is no need for me to begin a thread in that direction. I have no conflict with SGI or the priest continuing the Daishonin's teachings. I have studied some in the lotus sutra, from the time I was a child back in the 60's. What I can tell you is there is something to be experienced there, but spiritually it is a dead end. Enlightenment is not arrived at by chanting or vague contemplations in meditation. When you reach true enlightenment you will come to know the very Creator of the "mystic law" itself, and attempt to join your being with His will. The sutras themselves speak clearly of gods and demons as well as nirvana, reincarnation etc... One should not trivialize these aspects of the study because they are the deeper reality.

A true bodhisattvas is no deity, but a human soul who has come to realize and connect with deity or God, and to share the path with others helping to lead them home/heaven/nirvana. It is my experience and belief that there is a living God, and many have experienced His presence, which is a far greater experience then anything that can be attained through chanting and or meditation. Although, I will not deny that these things may aide one to open doors that may other wise be shut, they are just pointers to that which is on the other side of those doors, and that ultimately is GOD.

To those who chose to "practice" these things, I would encourage to give at least as much attention and time to seeking out God, it is not an easy task but if you can be as sincere with your efforts the rewards are even greater. The "mystic law" has been set in motion by its creator who is God, the Father of all things manifest here and beyond, both physical and spiritual. Order and balance have not just mystically appeared, there is a grander purpose and intention at work with us and for us.



posted on Apr, 14 2008 @ 11:53 AM
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Holidaystar,

I'd like to ask a few pointed questions if I may:

You say that spiritually the Lotus Sutra is a dead end? Why? What makes you say that? I disagree, but I am very interested to hear what you have to say.

You said:



When you reach true enlightenment you will come to know the very Creator of the "mystic law" itself, and attempt to join your being with His will.


OK I am listening. Are you truly enlightened?

You also said:



The sutras themselves speak clearly of gods and demons as well as nirvana, reincarnation etc... One should not trivialize these aspects of the study because they are the deeper reality.


Yes that is true all of these things are taught by the Buddha, and I agree that these things should not be trivialised - however, my point was that it is people who make life's problems manifest, and it is people that need to be responsible enough to realise this.

Although I dont believe in a Living God like you do, I do agree with your sentiments about the Bodhisattva Way.

Gassho,

Shoken



posted on Apr, 14 2008 @ 02:47 PM
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Shoken,

Ill give you this for starters;

The series proves through lyrics and quotes from the musicians that music is a conduit to another realm. I hope that part one will give enough info for you.

SOLD SOULS

I'll be back to post more later but I have errands to run.



posted on Apr, 14 2008 @ 07:39 PM
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This thread has become way off topic, toasted , ive seen you numerous times attack others religions because it doesnt agree with yours, you always ruin a thread with your nonsence. You have no right to attack others religions, or spiritual beliefs, there is no point in even trying because they already have their belief system in place. This is ATS not church.



posted on Apr, 14 2008 @ 08:17 PM
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Holidaystar,

I'd like to ask a few pointed questions if I may:

You say that spiritually the Lotus Sutra is a dead end? Why? What makes you say that? I disagree, but I am very interested to hear what you have to say.


Nichiren Daishonin/ former Bodhisattva Jogyo/ Zennichi-maro/ Rencho is said to have propagated the True Law, and opened the way to Buddhahood for all people in the Latter Day of the Law. He inscribed the Dai-Gohonzon for the enlightenment of all people subsequently fulfilling the purpose of his advent.
Shakyamuni/ Siddhartha who it is said achieved enlightenment sitting beneath a Bodhi tree in Buddhagaya is responsible for expounding the Lotus Sutra. And buy his words states that no "shomon" or "engaku' will ever fully comprehend the wisdom of Buddhahood, but that this supreme state inherently resides in the lives of all beings.
The Dai-Gohonzon is then said to be the object of worship as scribed by Nichiren, and that by "faith" in chanting "nam-myoho-renge-kyo" to it, releases its power and protection. And any mere mortal can potentially attain enlightenment just by chanting, or I have heard that even hearing others chant can erase ones accumulated karma from many past lives.
In any event, studying the Lotus Sutra over the millennium has not transformed many individuals or the state of this world as it will presently attest to.
Don't get me wrong I am all for the pursuit of enlightenment, true enlightenment which I believe comes from God, not the sutras. I do not adhere to the idea that we are going round and round to attain Buddhahood.



OK I am listening. Are you truly enlightened?

At some level I will be bold enough to tell you yes, to some extent. I am not arrogant enough to say that I understand all things in all realms. Am I a Buddha?, no, I have not nor will not achieve mastery of the Ten Worlds or the ten in each of those times the power of ten in each of those either in this lifetime, and I don't plan on returning to do it again.


Although I don’t believe in a Living God like you do, I do agree with your sentiments about the Bodhisattva Way.

In the Hoben Chapter of the Lotus Sutra, Buddhist gods are described as a reality. Bonten, Taishaku are examples of protecting living gods, as well as the other bodhisattvas, including Fugen, and Myoon (mystic sound) who propagates the Lotus Sutra throughout the ten directions with his wondrous voice. I think if you are truly a student of the Sutra, then if you say you do not believe in a living God you are missing something in the text. Demons as well are said to distract those whom they can, and they are not all referred to as effects from the lower six worlds. Dairokuten no Mao, is said to be the king of devils who dwells in the highest of the six heavens of the world of desire, working to obstruct Buddhist practice and delighting in the sapping of the life force of other beings. Isn't that an amazing co-incidence the "king of devils" number is the same as the number of the beast.
He, who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit say unto the churches...



posted on Apr, 15 2008 @ 03:43 AM
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This thread has gone way way off topic, but I find it interesting that it has struck such a nerve with a few people.

Holidaystar,

I asked you why you felt the Lotus Sutra was a spiritual dead end. Im sorry but you did not answer the question. You paraphrased a summary of Nichiren Buddhism.

I asked if you where enlightened, and you are bold enough to say that you are enlightened to some extent. I find it interesting that you say this. Can you elaborate? In what way are you enlightened? What does your level enlightenment allow you to give to the world? what does it do for you?

I pointed out that I do not belive in a Living God, but that I do agree with your Sentiments about the Bodhisattva way. I am surprised that you again tried to summarise some pretty deep Buddhist teachings and imply that I do not understand have drawn the wrong conclusion about the Lotus Sutra's true meaning.

If this thread is going to turn into a battle of wills over whose religion is best or whose faith is deeper, better or stronger then find someone else to fight with.

I am reasonably new to this forum but no stranger to the interent. I am always amazed to see how quickly people can attack ideas with broad generalised statements. I am not offended - just a little dumbfounded at what this thread has turned into.

On one hand I am keen to discuss, and correct some of the points you made in your summaries of Nichiren Buddhism - on the other I feel that you have already made up your mind and are not really open or capable of discussion.

Toasted,

I will watch the video - however from what I the little glimpse that I had already I really dont think I am going to agree with you. Lets agree to disagree shall we?

NiteBoy,

As a Mod what are your thoughts on the way this thread has gone?

Gassho

Shoken



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