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*Breaking* Ukraine and Georgia NOT to join Nato

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posted on Apr, 3 2008 @ 01:21 AM

*Breaking* Ukraine and Georgia NOT to join Nato


Bucharest - NATO is set to take in two new members, Croatia and Albania, but alliance leaders on Wednesday sidestepped a confrontation with Russia by leaving Ukraine and Georgia waiting on the doorstep.

'There is consensus for two of the three countries to be offered invitations to begin accession talks starting tomorrow,' NATO spokesman James Appathurai said.

'I do not expect membership action plans (MAPs) for Georgia and Ukraine at Bucharest,' he said, in a blow both to the two former Soviet republics and to outgoing US President George W Bush, who had lobbied hard on their behalf.
(visit the link for the full news article)

Related Discussion Threads:
Rumors from Russia about Iran

posted on Apr, 3 2008 @ 01:21 AM
This has just broken in Danish press. I cannot yet find any confirmation in MSN sources. The closest being this 7 hr old news expecting the MAPs to be rejected.

Now it is time to think conspiracy. The Russian paper leaked and widely cited on this board about an upcoming early April attack on Iran has also postulated an offer from the Bush gang, to reject the membership applications of the two former Soviet satellites in return for Russia staying out of any conflict with Iran.

The missile shield has also been mentioned as part of that deal, but so far no confirmation on that.

(visit the link for the full news article)

posted on Apr, 3 2008 @ 01:32 AM
If you really think about it, if there is an upcoming assault on Iran, If, the primary reason it may be taking place at all may be some kind of deal between the US and Russia.

Think about this, we tell Russia that the Missile Defense Shield is for Iran, Russia balks. We tell Russia" if we took out Iran, we wouldn't really need a Missile Shield or NATO expansion." So some kind of agreement is reached and were happy, theyre happy, and the Iranians won't be happy.

This is just a pure speculative scenario of course.

[edit on 3/4/08 by MikeboydUS]

posted on Apr, 3 2008 @ 01:38 AM
This is completely because of Iran. I think for once our speculation has gotten to the bottom of something secretive.

I fully believe the deal was that Russia will stay out of the Iran conflict, and in return, the missile shield would not be needed because Iran would be out of the way, and NATO would not accept Georgia and Ukraine.

The next obstacle is China. Will they be too busy with Tibet to be able to get involved in Iran? Only time will tell.

I'm on the fence about this talk of an April strike on Iran. We've been hearing this talk about Iran for a while now, and it seems to be getting repetitive at times. But still, it has to be taken seriously no matter what, and I think there really is something to this US-Russia 'deal' that has been speculated on.

posted on Apr, 3 2008 @ 01:56 AM
Now BBC has an updated article on Troop discussions at Nato summit

The alliance will also discuss how to maintain links with Georgia and Ukraine while not offering them membership.

Leaders of the two countries will join discussions in Bucharest after Germany and France made clear their opposition to the pair becoming formal candidates.

A senior Georgian diplomat has told the BBC that a "no" to Georgia at this stage will be widely seen as a victory for Russia, which has voiced concerns at Nato's eastward expansion.

France promised to join in Afghanistan, Germany sending more troops, and Georgia let down. Putin wins again.

But your right Novus, what about China.. too busy with the Olympic and their image? This is a kill or cure situation.

To me it is a madman's poker game.

posted on Apr, 3 2008 @ 02:00 AM
reply to post by khunmoon

Yeah, it wouldn't look too good to have the Olympics in your country while your country is at war with anyone, much less the United States.

Although they were here in 2002 and we were at war but the situations are completely different, in my opinion.

I'm not sure if China really cares about it's image but I think the Olympics and Tibet will definitely play a role in this Iran situation.

posted on Apr, 3 2008 @ 02:06 AM
China owns too much of our debt. They do want a return on it, otherwise they wouldn't have invested in the first place.

In addition their economy depends on the American consumer.

Remember the PRC arn't exactly the virtuous type. As long as they meet their energy needs, say from oil in Africa where they have heaviliy invested, they'll be happy. Its all about the business, they could probably care less about Iran as a country.

posted on Apr, 3 2008 @ 02:20 AM
Hmm, all while Israel and Syria are doing their own posturing. Sounds like something big is going to happen soon. Army is complaining that something has to be done about the "All Volunteer Force". And this whole NAU thing could bring Canada and Mexico right along with it. World War Three.

posted on Apr, 3 2008 @ 05:22 AM
The original Reuter dispatch of decision from the Bucarest meeting is soon 20hrs old and I'm highly wondering why MSN hasn't picked this up yet..

On CNN, not a word (yet), on BBC, burried in reports about France agreeing on a battalion to Afghanistan.

Whatever deal about the former satellites will be, is what the physical future of Europe depends on, maybe that's why MSN isn't keen to report. I don't believe it's a deal for the people in any of those countries joining alliances, it's only a deal for the politicians and their croonies in the real world of business.

Take a look at this old chap at a demo in Ukraine, he don't wanna join Nato

The text of his posters: "Keep your Nose Out Bush!" and "The Lunch of Nato"

And for what should we take them, it is also our alliance of the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation, it wouldn't improve the security of anyone. The Atlantic is stretching a little bit too far these days, IMO. According to Reuter:

... *[color=#FFE1FF] link above*

Germany and France had led opposition to the move, saying it was premature when public support for NATO was barely 30 percent in Ukraine and Georgia did not control all its territory due to frozen conflicts with Russian-backed separatists.

[edit on 3/4/2008 by khunmoon]

posted on Apr, 3 2008 @ 05:46 AM
all i see going on is that NATO, the face Anglo-American domination,
is only 'stirring the pot' in that region ...

And whatever comes to the surface, lets say French-German hesitations about admitting Georgia, Ukraine, are leveraged by London-Washington
with swift opportunism.
~ Georgia & Ukraine are a stone's throw from Turkey...
Georgia & Ukraine are test cases & flanking actions & a subliminal message to the EU that Turkey itself is not yet ready for joining the EU itself.
but there is a lot more to keeping all 3 of these independent states
on the outside-looking-in (from the NorthAtlantic powers perspective)...
one case might be to leverage any ties either country has with the OIC,
Organization for Islamic Conference

posted on Apr, 3 2008 @ 06:12 AM
reply to post by khunmoon

Great thread, Khun, star!

The worry about Iran is certainly possible. But i wonder if the oil & gas
routes has anything to do with it, cutting through Russia's southwesern

[edit on 4/3/2008 by FRIGHTENER] Couldn't make

[edit on 4/3/2008 by FRIGHTENER] my link work!

[edit on 4/3/2008 by FRIGHTENER] sorry.

[edit on 4/3/2008 by FRIGHTENER]

[edit on 4/3/2008 by FRIGHTENER]

[edit on 4/3/2008 by FRIGHTENER]

posted on Apr, 3 2008 @ 02:45 PM
Bye, bye to Georgia and Ukraine, hello to missile shield.

Nato onthe meeting in Bucarest recommended to go ahead with missile shield.

Nato to back US missile defence

Nato countries have agreed to back US plans to site a missile defence system in Europe, at a summit in Romania.

Member states will endorse a communiqué backing the plan to position missile defence bases in the Czech Republic and Poland, US officials said.

Albania and Croatia were invited to join the 26-member alliance.

But Georgia and Ukraine will not be put immediately on the path to membership, while Macedonia was told it must solve a dispute with Greece before joining.

The communiqué on missile defence, circulated by US officials, acknowledges ballistic missile proliferation as "an increasing threat to allied forces, territory and populations".

Still have the misseles to deal with in case Russia should have a say in an upcoming Iran conflict.,

posted on Apr, 3 2008 @ 02:52 PM
You people should understand, both russia and usa monitor each other. Russia knows usa's motives for the missile defence shield, so stop believing the news.

On the nato thing, they are probably putting off to another day. Stop believing the press saying russia does not understand it, just think it over to yourself. Do you think russia should believe bush, look how often bush lies, and he does it with a straight face.

Russia knows the motives behind the missile shield and nato expansion. So i say again stop believing the press.

posted on Apr, 3 2008 @ 08:49 PM
I wouldn't be too happy about an invasion of Iran if I were Israel. Iran will strike them first in retaliation. Just my opinion though, no facts to support it, so don't ask me for my proof or sources..

posted on Apr, 3 2008 @ 10:47 PM
NATO has done the right thing. Ukraine and Georgia joining NATO will not benefit either side much, especially not the two countries in question. P

Poland, Baltics, and other East European states are a different matter - there are significant anti-Russian and pro-Western sentiments there. In Ukraine and Georgia however over 50% of the population is strongly against joining NATO. In fact many politicians and military leaders might even try and sabotage any relations with NATO. Does NATO really need member states where over half of the population is highly hostile to them? And why does NATO even find such urgent need to expand?

As for Ukraine and Georgia - their leadership is utterly irresponsible and arrogant. These countries have over 60% of their trade conducted with Russia, and virtually rely on Russia for energy resources. They cannot afford to cut ties with Russia, and it would be in their best interests to have good relations with both - US and Russia.

And I do not see how this has much of anything to do with Iran. With the missile shield - yes, but Iran - not likely.

If this truly was a hidden agreement with Russia to open the barriers to attack on Iran, why does Bush of all people continues to strongly support Ukraine and Georgia joining NATO. The news are that NATO refused to allow them to join, but that Bush was very disappointed in that decision. So this is not US's decision, and therefore has little to do with Iran or improving relations with Russia.

And that begs the question - why is Bush so interested in Ukraine and Georgia joining NATO. What is in it for the US? It appears Yuschenko and Saakashvilli really are his lap dogs.

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