Chiefs of Staff: Change Course, Face Draft, or Lose Army

reply to post by anti us gov


If I'm not mistaken, in Vietnam it was between 18-26. If it would be the same this time, who knows?

WWII was 18-45.

So if there is a draft, I'm still a viable candidate for the next 1.5 years at the current system.

I'm sure the politicians children will be first in line.


[edit on 4/3/08 by niteboy82]

Originally posted by BlackOps719
Ahhh...the draft.


This will end up being the fiasco to end all fiasco's. I just wonder what the Mexican's will think when they see tens of thousands of desperate draft dodging Americans crossing THEIR borders

I hear Cancun is nice.

Better yet,what will they think when ALL the illegal immigrants go running back ahead of the draft dodgers.Now that would be a funny sight.

reply to post by 1Crisis

Why wouldn't you fight for your country?

I'd be happy to fight to defend my country.
But I'm sure not willing to fight to build a global empire for a bunch of fatcats.

I'd rather fight to defend my country from them.

reply to post by 1Crisis

I don't know what America you live in but they don't keep us safe.They're only protecting their posessions and using us as pawns.they already let half of the enemy into this country to destroy it from the inside.

They didn't want me when I was 17 because I didn't have a diploma,so you know what?I'm 36 & I still don't have one. I have no problem defending my homeland and the people around me but I don't need to be in the military for that.If you wanna be shipped off to die in some S**thole then I feel sorry for you and your loved ones. I can understand the gung ho attitude and believe me I'll be just as gung ho when I'm murdering the animals defending my own on my American soil. Until then The US Gov can go ef off.

Yeah playing w/guns and explosives and massive machines are fun but when you have to live w/taking a life,believe me, you will never be normal again.If you have to in defense of your own life,that's one thing but to do so because they say it's needed is just outlandish.I allow no one to manipulate my mind.I know right from wrong and when to apply what I learned.

I find it hard to believe all the america haters on this site. why dont you move to iran and enjoy your freedom under sharia law? I dont believe in the "they" and "them" paranoia. Saddam was an evil dictator. Sure we may have cozied up to him to get at iran in the past but he was the lesser of 2 evils. this all just reminds me of my punk rock days in the 80's when the same discussion was about ronald reagan. look what happened, communist russia fell and so did the berlin wall. i dont hear any of you defending the lack of human rights in iran or elsewhere, the good ol' USA has allways got to be the bad guy. Sorry your lack of patriotism makes me sick sometimes.

Originally posted by jasonhb
Sorry your lack of patriotism makes me sick sometimes.

It's not lack of patriotism, but lack of common sense. Must be some superpower, considering how rare it is.

For what reason do we have to continue this war???

Why do troops need to be there? It's an entire army vs. a small group of insurgents...just pull our troops out and watch them cave in on themselves- we cannot establish democracy in a country that doesn't want it. If the draft is passed, expect millions of protestors and riots. I'd rather sit in jail then go fight W's war.

This will affect everyone. Lets just hope it doesn't happen.

reply to post by lnaphx


Thing about the overweight people being cut from the draft is that they do have ways to get around that. The standards for military recruiting has gone down in an effort to get more volunteers regularly. Also I hear the Marine Corps will gladly take anyone overweight, slim them down and buff them up to wanted specifications.

Originally posted by Finn1916
Two things: One, can I switch the mouse and keyboard for my playstation controller when controlling robot warriors? I prefer my playstation controller cause fire is always R1.

Onto the seriousness. Take every illegal alien crossing our borders, and make them fight to earn their right to be here. I know, that sounds bad, but they broke the law to get here, so they have no problem breaking laws in wartime. Then we take all the criminals that are inf or long periods of itme, train them, give them guns, and it' all good. Hell, they already know how to kill. Finally, get all the gangbangers. Why? they already know how to kill in large numbers with automatic guns, and in uniform. Ya never know, it just might work.

To late,

Originally posted by 1Crisis
If you are all of age, your ALL getting drafted!
If you don't like it you can get the

out of our country!

Why wouldn't you fight for your country?
This country has spent MANY hard years making sure that all of you are safe and are free to do as you want. They've spent so many years doing all of what you have, for you. Then you turn around and tell them you won't fight for them?

How does that work? The U.S. does everything it can to keep you and your family safe, and when they need YOUR help, you say no?

Thats weak. If your parents asked you to help them even if they so much as THOUGHT they needed you. What would you say? They raised you and helped you all of your years, when your finally of age to give back, would you say no?

Same thing for the U.S. They've always been here for us. Now it's our turn to be there for them!

In what world do you live? In what country?
Surely you do not live in the United States because these are not the words of an American, I'm quite sure the founders of this once great nation would cringe at the mere fact that the remnants of this land are actually suggesting that they hold direct power over another free mans life.

What you are suggesting is nothing short of slavery, This is completely shameful and disgraceful to the men who actually did fight to ensure that free men always remain free.

No, man, No Majority, And No Government holds power over me unless I violate the individual rights of another, The fight for freedom is most certainly on the horizon, Arabs in a desert with crude small arms pose no threat to those freedoms they never have and never will, The threat to those freedoms lies within, those threats are domestic, our founders warned us about them, because they hold the power to take from us everything, not by force but by fear, we elect them year after year to protect our freedoms yet ironically each election comes not a protection of our freedoms, but another loss, and people such as yourself have the nerve to tell me what I have to do to be American?
That fighting an unjust war against a nation who never attacked us is protecting my freedoms? How in the hell did Iraq or even Ossama pose a threat to my right to free speech? My right to keep and bear arms? My right to fair trial? My right to be secure in my property? PLEASE tell me how Any of these entities had the power to take such freedoms from me and other free men.

They did not and cannot, The only ones with the power to take away rights are the ones who give those rights up.

You can spin the BS however you like and be a nice little self proclaimed Patriot because you bang the drums of war and try and make people believe that our military is protecting our freedom its BS, Our military is being used by the status quo to secure profits and power, and those who are manipulating them use this Patriotic BS to make it seem noble, when the reality is this isn't a war to protect us, its a war that benefit few, and screw over the many, This isn't my war this is their war, My war is waged every day against people like you who think because they vote they can some how control what I do, say, own. or believe, and that they have the power to tell me that unless I fight there private war, I should leave my country.

Any free man who willingly allows himself to be forced into the service of another person or people, concedes his freedoms, he isn't fighting for it, because he gave it up.

Anyone who thinks they wield power over another is an enemy to freedom.

But to answer your question.

Why wouldn't you fight for your country?

Because my country no longer exists, I'm a country unto myself as it seems freedom exists now only on an individual basis, This once free nation who once embodied true freedom now treads on it on a continuous basis.

My country would never tread on freedom, And I will never fight for a country who does.



If this country ever needed a draft to protect freedom, It wouldn't need a draft.

[edit on 3-4-2008 by C0le]

Well said Cole... Excellent. Don't count me out!

Let Freedom Ring

Zeitgeist... Endgame.... Terrorstorm. Dare I say any more.

Originally posted by jasonhb
I find it hard to believe all the america haters on this site.

And here, folks, today's quote from the right-wing noise machine!!!

why dont you move to iran and enjoy your freedom under sharia law?

The Iranian people currently choose to be under Sharia law. The new, younger generations are beginning to grow tired of it, and maybe some day they'll take control of their country. But, from what I've read, Iran is a pretty modern country by stereotypical Middle Eastern standards.

I dont believe in the "they" and "them" paranoia. Saddam was an evil dictator. Sure we may have cozied up to him to get at iran in the past but he was the lesser of 2 evils.

Why did we have to f### around with either of them? Has it at all occurred to you that pretty much every terrorist group and third-world whacko that hates America and wants to kill Americans, hates us because of the crap we do? Do you even realize how much we run rampant across the globe, covertly running into sovereign countries and s####ing on their lawns by training terrorists, Yes, TERRORISTS, to overthrow their governments--and then prop up the new dictatorships--all because some American fat-azz corporation can get a better deal buying land and relaxing labor laws to pave the way for their new sweatshop? Does it not ever occur to you we might bring hatred and vengeance upon ourselves??? You are aware, I'm sure, the main reason Osama bin Laden claimed he set 9/11 in motion was because We, INFIDELS, were occupying Saudi Arabia (the Muslim HOLY LAND, for those who've not taken five minutes to try and understand Islam) and using their bases for our Middle East troops--troops who, by many reports, had little respect for the culture and customs of the Saudis? And guess what? WE GAVE HIM WHAT HE WANTED!!! WE LEFT!!! Bin Laden got exactly what he wanted from us (assuming you believe he really was behind 9/11).

this all just reminds me of my punk rock days in the 80's when the same discussion was about ronald reagan. look what happened, communist russia fell and so did the berlin wall.

Communist Russia's fall had not ONE G-D DAMN THING to do with Ronald Reagan--unless you count spending more money on the military during peacetime than any President in history to that point. Russia fell apart under its own broken economy, corruption, and out-of-control military spending. Hmm, that sounds familiar.... What other country is cracking under those same weights right now? Reagan was a monster. He was a fake cowboy (just like born-in-Connecticut-afraid-of-horses George W. Bush). His image was modeled after John Wayne's (a *GASP* DRAFT-DODGER during WW2!!!) and his entire platform was based on rolling back the New Deal (which created what we currently know as the Middle Class in this country), destroying the government from inside like cancer (saying it's bad, and then actually MAKING it bad on purpose to prove themselves right) and eliminating the jobs of hard-working Americans. I'm glad he's dead. Let Conservative Philosophy be buried with him.

i dont hear any of you defending the lack of human rights in iran or elsewhere,

What about the lack of human rights right here in America? The only industrialized nation without a comprehensive health care system or higher education system. One of the highest percentages of incarceration in the civilized world. Some of the lowest literacy rates, because educated children are children who ask questions and don't belive bullsh!t, and that's no good for our corporate masters. We've suspedned Habeus Corpus. The President can now determine who are "enemy combatants" without right to counsel. He could even choose you!!! Who knows, after a hard night and too much blow and vodka he might pick your name off a list somewhere and tell the FBI/CIA/they're all the same anymore to come pick you up, ship you off to somewhere like Ukraine, beat you bloody and sodomise you for weeks on end until you cough up some kind of information that sounds like you know a guy who met this dude whose kids go to school with this other guy's kids and yeah, I heard he sold some Arab-lookin' dudes some dynamite five years ago (which may or may not have actually happened, they don't care about "truth" or getting "useful information", they just get off hearin' you squeeeeeeeaaaaaallll like a piggie)--all because he was hung over and wanted someone to blame!!! Human rights-in a pig's eye.

the good ol' USA has allways got to be the bad guy.

Hey, here's a thought: Maybe, just MAYBE, we ARE the bad guys? Ever watch "Star Wars"? You think, if that had been real, Imperial citizens would have thought the Rebels were just "brave freedom fighters"--or would they be TERRORISTS?? Now, we know the Empire were the bad guys--but to an Imperial citizen they'd be the good guys, right? We only see how bad they are because we get to observe objectively, from outside the situation. You have to do that with things in the real world too. Step outside it for a moment and look at it as an objective, third-party observer. It might just shock you to see some of the stuff this nation does.

Sorry your lack of patriotism makes me sick sometimes.

The people who lack patriotism are the ones who never question the official story and swallow whatever bullsh!t they're fed and refuse to consider that our point of view sometimes blinds us to the truth. That's called nationalism. It's the bad, extreme, retarded brother of Patriotism, the Captain of the Team, who throws sucker-punches at all Patriotism's friends because he thinks it's funny. Nationalism is what makes me sick.

reply to post by C0le


You took the words right out of my mouth. Excellent statement that sums it all up!

reply to post by jasonhb


Oh, and for the record, I'm extremely disappointed that anyone claiming to have ever had "Punk Rock Days" would turn out to be an anti-intellectual, authoritarian, willfully ignorant, nationalistic fascist. If you never picked up the meaning and spirit of the words and the attitudes and kept it with you the rest of your life, you were either doing it to look cool or you just didn't "get" it, and I feel sorry for you.

reply to post by lnaphx


I agree.....Move the age limit to 50. Look, in reality all you have to do is be able to walk a couple miles with 60lb pack in 130 degree temps. Honestly..........Plenty of 30-50 year olds could get in that kind of shape in 12 weeks.....Train em in AZ, NM, and TX along the border, and let felons with 10 years of being good join. Problem solved.

Originally posted by TXMACHINEGUNDLR
I agree.....Move the age limit to 50. Look, in reality all you have to do is be able to walk a couple miles with 60lb pack in 130 degree temps.

I hope that's just sarcasm and not how you really look at it.

Originally posted by anti us gov
There is no need for any war.

I disagree. War is a normal state of affairs in this world and is quite necessary. Civilization did not advance to the degree that it has by placating enemies, allowing other nation states to gain influence in strategic locations friend or foe, or by being totally diplomatic -- it doesn't work that way. Our civilization was and is still built and maintained by screwing everybody else. Whether or not it has been worth it is another argument altogether. There are few "win-win" political situations in this world.

Draft? How many of you are really fresh out of high school and not attending college?

I'm not too worried about the idea of the draft myself. As far as how it applies to me, well it doesn't since I'm already shipping out into the air force in August, so I'm already getting into the service of my choice. Even if I didn't get accepted into the air force I'd have gladly applied for any of the other services and I wouldn't be too distraught over getting drafted into the army. But really, that's just me. I just so happen to believe that the US is doing a lot of good in the world, but I would never want anyone to be sent in against their will. I'm a volunteer because I don't want to see other people forced into a state of affairs that they don't want.

Otherwise as already mentioned, it'd be the army itself that'd oppose the draft more than anyone else. A draft worked for situations like World War II because morale was running high, it may as well have been a volunteer force. However the military of today is based entirely on the fact that everyone is a volunteer. No one is in their against their will meaning that the higher ups can always just turn and say "you volunteered" whenever things get rough. And as already mentioned, a draft brings in a lot of people that the military doesn't want. People with criminal backgrounds, and a lot of people that have no intention of fighting. While I can sympathize with a person who got drafted against their will, I don't want my life depending on that person. Simply put I want my back being covered by someone who wants to be there and I know isn't going to snap at a critical moment.

I'm not knocking the draftees in our past wars who served honorably. There were many cases in Vietnam where drafted soldiers fought very bravely and did a great service to this country. But it's an unreliable system, there's just too much of a chance of getting a teammate who really doesn't have the team's interest in mind. While an all volunteer force isn't perfect, there is no perfect system, it does work much better. This is especially true in a controversial war such as Iraq where at least with a volunteer force you're much less likely to have your teammates desert on you.

I don't think this guy is calling for a draft. Just stating the obvious. He just found a subtler way to say the same thing that the recently fired Admiral said.

Originally posted by C0le
... I'm a country unto myself as it seems freedom exists now only on an individual basis, This once free nation who once embodied true freedom now treads on it on a continuous basis.
[edit on 3-4-2008 by C0le]

We are all of us, countries unto ourselves, and it will be this very "coalition of the willing" that represent the one thing that cannot be resisted. Reason. Regardless of whether you accept it as an evolutionary imperative, or a divine gift, it will always be the light from which oppression hides. I humbly submit that this thing we call freedom is not a end, it is a means, it is the true wealth of mankind, and the key to it's survival is justice.

I'm impressed C0le , stay safe, seek peace.

[edit on 3-4-2008 by Maxmars]