And as I said on the chemtrails thread in which you posted the same thing...

You only needed top post the link, not copy the whole document.

Second, you should read the code of the page. Especially the part about NAME=description CONTENT="Over 100 megs of official records and photos detailing government lies to We The People, this website started as a subpage of a website designed to promote my film career."

Note the part about the film career...

"Over 100 megs of official records and photos"

Im sure the goverment feels it is doing right in the eyes of ther people. (snickers)

THEY DO NOT CARE ABOUT A SINGLE LIFE THAT IS NOT RELATED TO THEM.

Bumping this so it is back in main view.


Think it is worth most everyone's time.


TS

Contrary to what many of you believe, the United States isn't the "Great Evil" that your conspiracy materials and tin foil helmted friends would have you believe. Every government on this Earth is guilty of the ill treatment of it's people, over taxation and corruption. The only true saddening thing here is that it doesn't matter what silly material is set down in front of many of you...many of you believe it without question.

My grandfather used to say that each generation goes by bitching about their ills but they never take the time to try and make a difference. My question posed to many of you in this post is...WHAT HAVE YOU DONE FOR HUMAN LIFE?

While the government shows disregard for human life, what do you do to raise the quality of those human lives? Surely sitting on a messageboard posting isn't feeding the hungry.

Originally posted by Sinobyte
Contrary to what many of you believe, the United States isn't the "Great Evil" that your conspiracy materials and tin foil helmted friends would have you believe. Every government on this Earth is guilty of the ill treatment of it's people, over taxation and corruption. The only true saddening thing here is that it doesn't matter what silly material is set down in front of many of you...many of you believe it without question.

The above statement is both moot and foolish. If by your own admission "every country does it" that makes it better or more socially acceptable to you? I think you've lost touch with your internal humanity. Just because many countries are guilty of injustices, which nobody on this thread stated otherwise, does not mean that it should be tolerated, or forgotten?

Remember that.

My grandfather used to say that each generation goes by bitching about their ills but they never take the time to try and make a difference. My question posed to many of you in this post is...WHAT HAVE YOU DONE FOR HUMAN LIFE?

I can't speak for others on this forum, but you'll damn hear from me about my personal experiences. When I was younger, I too served my country. 8 years as a U.S.M.C. Counter-Intel Officer. We did things that most of the country to this day takes for granted. And we did some down right rotten # to others too. Many servicemen were also treated poorly, even if they were unaware that it was due to the government, *their government's* involvement.

I also know what it means to strive for perfection in your duty to defend this country, it's citizens, and maybe most importantly, it's sovereignty. I know what it's like to watch my country change, become more fascist, and have more and more laws, and less and less freedoms. Assumptions of most anything are foolish.

Remember that.

While the government shows disregard for human life, what do you do to raise the quality of those human lives? Surely sitting on a message board posting isn't feeding the hungry.

Personally, I can say I've done much for my fellow man, and while I think I could have and should have done more, any true patriot would feel the same way.

And in a way yes, sitting on a message board is feeding the hungry. People are starving of many things, morals, character, motivation, decency, even understanding. I come on here and I try to serve up a nice plate of truth with all the fix-ins to any and all who have the desire to listen and/or discuss with me, so that we may find the entire truth together.

There is truth in "No man is an island" in many aspects of life, conspiracy is one such aspect. Those with understanding must realize it's their duty to speak out, to be heard, and to help others who are willing to listen.

"United we stand, divided we fall." a fundamental truth lost on many persons it would seem. And yet we still have "John Wayne" "patriots" such as yourself running around with blinders on, and giving people lectures to ensure you sleep a little more sound. Sorry to tell ya, but persons with closed minds will fall for anything, persons with open minds will give anything a chance, and move on, all in the process of learning.

What was the motto here again? Do you know? Oh that's right, it's "Deny Ignorance". Remember that.

Good luck to you, friend.


TS



[Edited on 31-5-2004 by TheSeeker]

Originally posted by TheSeeker
The above statement is both moot and foolish. If by your own admission "every country does it" that makes it better or more socially acceptable to you? I think you've lost touch with your internal humanity. Just because many countries are guilty of injustices, which nobody on this thread stated otherwise, does not mean that it should be tolerated, or forgotten?

You might want to read a bit closer. I never said it was acceptable nor did I insinuate it was better. I merely stated my opinion that the United States being singled out as the "great evil" when no government can claim innocence in anything they do gets old and tends to lend itself to people believing anything as long as the United States is attached to it, even if it's false. My reply wasn't moot or foolish. Your assumption that I was indicating mistreatment by ANYBODY or ANY government is okay was when the foolishness started.

Originally posted by TheSeeker
Assumptions of most anything are foolish.

You might want to take your own advice.

Originally posted by TheSeeker
"United we stand, divided we fall." a fundamental truth lost on many persons it would seem. And yet we still have "John Wayne" "patriots" such as yourself running around with blinders on, and giving people lectures to ensure you sleep a little more sound. Sorry to tell ya, but persons with closed minds will fall for anything, persons with open minds will give anything a chance, and move on, all in the process of learning.

What was the motto here again? Do you know? Oh that's right, it's "Deny Ignorance". Remember that.

Good luck to you, friend.

Nothing in my reply was ignorant though I noticed that's a quick and easy way of insulting people on ATS in order to gain some type of self-righteous upper hand. It was simply my opinion and though your Marlon Brando Apocalpyse Now Disallusioned conspiracy jargon might impress some, I couldn't careless. I'm no "john wayne" or a "patriot" and though that little bit of flaming might have looked good as you typed it, you don't know me or my positions well enough to make those type of comments. Your military service does not give you the exclusive right to have an opinion on how good or bad the government is. I have no illusions about how poor the U.S. government is or any other government for that matter but people spend too much time bemoaning how horribly treated they are and in the process they neglect those around them.

My opinion and reply was about not zoning in on the supposed greatest evil (The U.S.) and to remember that this type of corruption is everywhere and the only way to raise the quality of life around us is to become part of the solution.

Remember that Marlon.

I live in Utah.......and knew some DOWN WINDERS.......(pay attention to the KNEW part there)these folks no longer live.
"Down winders' is the nickname given to the people who were down wind of the nucleur (sp?) test sites. These toxic dust clouds just went wherever the wind did take them......

This link you have posted never even made any mention to DOWNWINDERS or any nucleur (sp?) testing events......"Hey dude, stand over there and hang on! cuz a BIG wind is coming!...we want to see how well you can stand in the wind!" ect ect ect....

[Edited on 1-6-2004 by theRiverGoddess]

theRiverGoddess, your confusion of the facts needs correcting.

First off the Government never said "Hey dude, stand over there and hang on! cuz a BIG wind is coming!...we want to see how well you can stand the wind!"

The "Down-Winders" is a VERY SMALL group of farmers or ranchers that lived practically on the boarder of Nevada while they were conducting surface testing.

And while what happend was tragic the National Geographic that discusses this very issue said it best.

"It was a time of innocence, before the full dangers of Nuclear Testing were known, a time when plans to use Nuclear Weapons for construction and excavation projects were planned."

The only bad thing about the government in this respect is they won't pay the Down-Winders compensation.

But eh...maybe if the Down-Winders had more commonsense to not be down wind from a Nuclear Blast?

It really doesn't matter, point is the Government did not do it on purpose, and that's more important in this thread than how the consequences are delt with.

Oh but I need to correct myself, the Down-Winders do receive compensation from the Government for medical bills and such, and if they say they don't they are probably lying, but there is an argument that with rising health costs it is no longer enough.

Your arguments don't even seem relevant.

There's a large difference between a "simulant" and the real thing.

Also can you please provide where it is allowed? The Government can not do "anything that isn't prohibited by law" rather it can only do "what is law."

So if what you say is true there's a US Code for it somewhere and the vagueness of that Code will determine just how far their "testing" abilities can go.

Possibly you don't know much about the history of the past US/UK/CAN BW experiments.
If a Government agency judges a substance to be "harmless" then it fits the bill as a simulant.
Incredibly, the UK CBW Department at Porton Down have gone on record as admitting that they never submitted FP (zinc cadmium sulphide) to toxicity testing prior to it being used in many Large Area Coverage concept trials in public areas of the UK. Even though the compound contains cadmium sulphide, a known toxic chemical.

As for the US Code needed to conduct these trials, I don't have it. But I do have proof that the trials took place over populated areas of the US. See the Deploymentlink link.

zero lift

I thought this is about US respect for Human Life...so why is it you're talking about UK bioweapon use on their people?

Also that list is of tests of harmless simulants as you were saying, why should I care if I get spritzed with some watery substance? You know I've worked with some various chromium ions before which is extremely toxic so there is quite a difference between something toxic in major doses that is safe if used in a certain way (such as the prior substance before stripping the chromium away) to something such as chromium which will poison your system with just a drop.

You might want to read a bit closer. I never said it was acceptable nor did I insinuate it was better. I merely stated my opinion that the United States being singled out as the "great evil" when no government can claim innocence in anything they do gets old and tends to lend itself to people believing anything as long as the United States is attached to it, even if it's false. My reply wasn't moot or foolish. Your assumption that I was indicating mistreatment by ANYBODY or ANY government is okay was when the foolishness started.

Nice way to backpeddle, but you won't get away with it. You see, you did in fact state that since every country did this, "THE ONLY TRUE SADDENING THING...." right there, you state that while the government's's actions are not saddening to you, our outrage is. I made no assumption.

Remember that.


Notice also that you've totally glossed over my Military Service, as you can preach high and mighty about something your grand pappy did(not you yourself mind you) but I guess you couldn't handle the fact that I too have served my country, and am not a brain dead puppet, like yourself.

Nothing in my reply was ignorant though I noticed that's a quick and easy way of insulting people on ATS in order to gain some type of self-righteous upper hand. It was simply my opinion and though your Marlon Brando Apocalpyse Now Disallusioned conspiracy jargon might impress some, I couldn't careless. I'm no "john wayne" or a "patriot" and though that little bit of flaming might have looked good as you typed it, you don't know me or my positions well enough to make those type of comments. Your military service does not give you the exclusive right to have an opinion on how good or bad the government is. I have no illusions about how poor the U.S. government is or any other government for that matter but people spend too much time bemoaning how horribly treated they are and in the process they neglect those around them.

You sir, are the pinnacle of ignorance. You did in fact come to this thread in full ignorance, and you and I both know it. You did not come here to express an opinion and then logically discuss a situation, you came here, made a blanket statement of both denial of our opinion, and along with a remark at our character. That's pretty ignorant if you ask me bubba.

I notice you are yet again making an ignorant, blanket statement, calling me a "delusional Marlon Brando". I assure you, your ignorance, that I am neither delusional or a Marlon Brando impersonator. Now I have been accused of being disillusioned, or jaded, but delusional I am most certainly not. Thank you for further showing your ignorance, I appreciate your help in proving my case!

My opinion and reply was about not zoning in on the supposed greatest evil (The U.S.) and to remember that this type of corruption is everywhere and the only way to raise the quality of life around us is to become part of the solution.

Remember that Marlon.

When you throw your opinion out with a blanket statement to discredit or belittle others, you have not stated anything worth listening to, and I sure as hell won't. You weren't stating that we should all be part of a solution, you came to belittle and use guilt to insinuate that we were beneath you because we complained without service to our country etc etc Note that you were totally wrong in that ASSUMPTION, and you got called on your ignorance.

Reality sir, live with it.

TS

*yawn*

Once again, my original intent was to point out that yes, the government can treat humans poorly but most people neglect to point out many of their own governments faults. I never insinuated that evil mistreatment by any government was correct.

On ATS people tend to believe any old theory or pile of crap as long as you claim the evil U.S. has their evil tentacles in it and that sir was I felt I had to point out that when people say GOVERNMENT...they really mean the U.S.. It shouldn't be GOVERNMENT/U.S. but GOVERNMENTS/Everybody.

Keep flaming all you want and using the word "ignorance" and so on and so forth, as I said before, it's something most people on ATS use to dismiss people and their opinions. If you feel you have to use insults to make a statement that you don't approve of my opinion and don't feel I should have one then by all means...have fun calling names.

Once again...if a person has the view that a government is treating people wrong, they need to ask themselves what they are doing to make things somewhat better for those around them. It's easy to sit on a messageboard and claim life is so bad because of the government and it's easy to claim you're "feeding" "hungry" people by posting on a messageboard but that's just not realistic. The governments of this world are made up of us...we are our governments...our leaders come from our neighborhoods, our schools, our churches...if they aren't doing something right as a whole it's not just their fault but ours and if all you can say is you feel you're making lives better by posting on a messageboard...you aren't doing anything.

I'll be leaving this thread now so I'll let you get in the last word so many post bullys cherish. You argue my point and claim the U.S. is the worst government and nobody in this post believes that, then you can call me more names and use the word ignorance a few more times and wrap it all up with claims of helping your fellow man...me, I'm just going to waltz into another forum, and then another, and then another and when I'm through posting I'll log off and your Apocalypse Now act and bullying will all have disappeared. You have not affected your surroundings soldier. You're just another whiner with fancy words. Pz.

Backpeddle as much as you like, I've logically stated what I had to, and you know where I stand. I won't lower myself to an all out flame war with you, have fun with you, unique view of reality.


Good luck to ya bubba.


TS

Its all poison and it looks like there are some gluttons here