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Hopefully I have cleared up some misunderstandings and curiosities about this subject for at least a few people.
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Originally posted by Bigwhammy
I will arm wrestle you for it.:bash:
Originally posted by AcidtasticLook,you're not going to change the views of some of the devout Christians in here,so is there any point in this?
They're even so die-hard as to draw comparisons between me and the "Devil".
No, being abject sinners like the next man, we turn to God's wisdom, not our own. Not brainwashed, but humbled by what God has said and done. Years, decades, of daily Bible reading and prayer for light from His Spirit. "Do not be conformed to this age, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you may discern what is the good, pleasing, and perfect will of God." (Romans 12:2)
I'm not here to change the minds of fundamentalist Christians, their minds are already made up from years of being brainwashed.
As I have previously clearly demonstrated, you twist the Scriptures, then claim to follow them correctly. Homosexuals always have been accepted, and welcomed by true churches, in the same way as all who have practised sexual immorality. Christ gave his life that all such sin might be forgiven in those who turn from a sinful lifestyle.
I'm here to let other Christians that have always pondered why the church was against homosexuality know that it really shouldn't be if the scripture were to be followed correctly. I'm also here to let homosexuals know that they should be accepted by the Christian church (many Episcopalian churches do already)
Of course the apostles, who spent years living with Jesus and risking their lives to pass on his teaching did not know the true Way. If Christians want to know what He taught, they need to wait until InterestedObserver comes on the scene.
There's no possible way to change the minds of the fundamentalists unless Jesus himself came down to Earth and told them the true Way.
Here you put the last nail in your own coffin. Anyone who reads Jesus' own teaching will see that he repeatedly, consistently taught that the very reason he chose to come into the world was to save us from sin and its consequent eternal judgment: hell.
Good thing I realize that the Devil and the concept of a fiery, burning Hell were invented to scare people into converting to Christianity for almost its entire history!
Originally posted by jedimiller
Being gay is wrong. In nature, in the bible and with God.
Originally posted by pause4thought
You claim to know better than Jesus.
Animals frequently tear each other to pieces and eat their own young, as I pointed out on a recent similar thread. They have no knowledge of good and evil, so their behaviour has no bearing on human morality.
Homosexuality is found throughout nature.
Interesting how you deny that the Bible is infallible, but claim it for your own arguments. This says a lot.
If it [homosexuality] were genetic, then my arguments are infallible.
I pointed out that you imply here that you know better than Jesus.
There's no possible way to change the minds of the fundamentalists unless Jesus himself came down to Earth and told them the true Way.
You really are getting yourself in knots here. You are so blind that you haven't noticed that JESUS HIMSELF ALREADY CAME DOWN TO EARTH AND TOLD US THE TRUE WAY. We follow what he, and the apostles who passed on his teaching, said, and that's why people call us fundamentalists! We believe it and teach it. You deny it and twist it.
I'm actually not familiar with one thing that I said implying that I know better than Jesus.
Jesus said that what comes from the mouth originates in the heart, and reveals its sinful state (Matthew 15:18) This includes all manner of "evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, sexual immoralities, thefts, false tesimonies, blasphemies... (Matt. 15:19). 'Sexual immoralties' are all sexual acts outside male-female marriage, which is the universal testimony of the Old and New Testaments.
...he never even talked about homosexuality...
I did claim that the bible, after 2000 years of being handed down and handed down, translated and retranslated, is definitely going to have edits that were made to reflect the times, or the wishes, or the feelings, of people in positions of power (such as in the Catholic Church).
Originally posted by pause4thought
These rehashed claims again display your ignorance, and reveal the true nature of your teaching: "Listen to me, not the Bible. You need me to interpret it for you, as it's not trustworthy on its own."
Originally posted by yahn goodey
we are so used to doing it our way it is going to come as quite a shock for all of us to start thinking differently and start living our lives the way G-D intends--------for our own good.
Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe you are saying that Christians should live by Levitical Law? If so, then you have every right to believe that homosexuality is wrong. But, I would like to point out that if we are still to follow this law, then answer this.
Mt 5:17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.
Mt 5:18 I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.
Mt 5:19 Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Mt 5:20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.
Zombie, I am gathering that you are using Matthew 5:18 to say that the old law must still be followed. If you were not, then excuse me, but are you not familiar with Galatians?
A good example is this, during the Civil Rights Movement people that were not black stood up for the rights of blacks when they were being persecuted. They did not have to be black to see what was right. My situation is the same, only for gays and lesbians.
I do not have to be gay to realize that it is not a sin to be homosexual. That is comparable to saying that it is a sin to be mentally retarded (hear me out on this), since they are both caused by genetics. Neither party aforementioned has a choice to be or not to be. Though this is an admittedly extreme example it is still valid, because where genetics are responsible for human qualities choice is not an option over biological construct.
So like I said, if the old law is no longer valid and if we learn that sexual orientation is completely driven by genetics, my argument would indeed be the correct one--that homosexuality should not be condemned by Christians.