ATS: Good Luck...

Jeff,

I must say first off, I completely understand the reasons for your weighty decision. I must confess the pang of deep loss I feel. You have personally taught me, more than any other individual, involved in or with the entire UFO field. You are to me, hands down the best image analyst, the most sincere, credible experiencer... that I have ever had the pleasure of speaking with. The first night we ever talked on phone Jeff, (for like 5 hours?!?) I was literally blown away by some of the collective relevations we shared on the enigma, and sharing your personal experiences with me.

You have a gift Jeff. I could ( and have literally ) sit and listen to you speak for hours. I would very much like for you to post or e-mail your speaking itinerary as I would be sure to attend. I do not give these compliments lightly and frankly feel a little sheepish doing so, as it is not my nature...but speaking with you has solidified some of my personal core beliefs. With that being said, because of you, I have a better overall understanding of what you, I and many others may have witnessed.

As you stated the enigma is so complexed and on so many levels I truly believe as you do, that noone does, or probably ever will understand it fully. I am still learning about critical analysis, and will continue to do so in the future. You have set a standard for everyone to follow and I think a benchmark for the entire UFO community. And that bar is high....

You are a genuine person, and a friend to me and always will remain so. Our conversations have honestly changed my life. I like you have an insatiable curiosity of the different aspects of this phenomenon, and will continue to look for that gem,but not chase after it, wide open slurping up every single bit and piece of biased garbage that has come down the pipe... now because of you I will hopefully do so in an informed, intelligent manner.

I will continue to follow your work as I have a deep appreciation for your down to earth, and professionally blunt analysis.

Good luck to you in all your projects, and endeavors. You will be missed Jeff...........thank you for everything.


~Sean

Best of luck with your book

Sorry to see you leaving. Your reasons are right on the money and I think others will drift away also. When the children and the childish start to take over it makes it awful uncomfortable for people who are serious about the UFO/Alien Contact topics.

I think there may be half a dozen photo's I've ever seen that might be something important and this flood of crap lately has done a huge amount of harm. I don't even visit many of the sites anymore as they have embraced the garbage looking to cash in.

Every time a site posts a ridiculous photo they know is not of any value credibility goes down the toilet. As to the video's; I've never seen even one worthy of noting since the autopsy film turned out to be fake years ago. One can take only so many videos of ice and debris glinting in the sunlight in space. I'm begining to think the Internet has done way more harm than good.

There are others here qualified to analyze photo's and videos, but not as qualified as you are. I see them trying from time to time but they give up for the same reasons you mentioned. No good work goes unpunished it would seem. Why people don't want the truth is beyond me.

Mr. Ritzmann...thank you for all your time and sharing your vast knowledge and interesting ideas.You will be missed.

First John Lear is chased away and now you...what a shame.I guess its time to look else where for UFO info on the net...Good luck on your book and I personally will anxiously wait for its release.

Jeff,

Sorry to see you go,It's hard to find the straight shooters anymore.

I'm sure your book will be a good read,the super strangeness of your experiences hit home for me.

Thanks for debunking to Billy Mier ray-gun,he almost had me

Sorry to see you go. You're THE authority and I look forward to whatever you present in the future.
P.S. can I have tour ATS points?

[edit on 4/1/2008 by LAUGHING-CAT]

[edit on 4/1/2008 by LAUGHING-CAT]

May good luck and good fortune grace your steps along the path you have chosen, JRitzman. Or something like that.

It was a pleasure being introduced to your work about a year ago when the "Chad" drone phenomenon first began. If one wants insight into the best and worst of ATS on Aliens & UFOs, they have only to visit that case. It represents a prime example of what you speak of. It was the case that brought me to ATS. Ironically, it was the case that tempered my involvement in discussions on UFOs and other paranormal phenomena.

At any rate, I sincerely wish you success. Please take the time to share with us your latest accomplishments!

Best,
Areal51

Good luck JR

Please keep us informed on how things are going for you. I hope you the best in whatever you do as long as it is for the GOOD.

reply to post by jritzmann


O K Keep us informed as to when you release your book and for any speaking engagements in the future. Blessings and good fortune to you.

ATS has been hostile for far more than the past six months, and it's definitely not just the user base. When you have the powers that be here on ATS labeling threads as hoaxes, labeling people as hoaxes, with headers saying stuff like

"The post(s) you are about to read is the fruit of a person who needs attention desperately and has the low mental bandwidth necessary to attempt to hoax the ATS Community. Read it as an example of what a classic HOAX looks like or for pure entertainment."

it tends to spread to the user base either making people more aggresive either for or against things that are posted. It just shows ATS has lost it's focus and meaning from what it started out to be. Not to mention some of the censorship I have seen going on more and more over the years it's no wonder the the current state of ATS. My point is when you have "hostile" staff you are going to have "hostile" users. ATS was never like this before, when certain people came into the picture it really changed. I strongly disagree with the direction ATS took and now its more evident than ever it's starting to really catch up in a very bad way.

I've seen some pretty questionable stuff going on here lately and IMO everyone is to blame, but it starts at the top. My honest opinion.

reply to post by jritzmann


I understand in as much as I can. I am relatively new to ATS- but not to life! I can generally spot a good "story" teller and as long as its good- then I am entertained/interested. If truth comes into it then posted proof or documents are more intriguing to read- but not necessary for a person like me because if you have spent the time doing the research- I can tell and am grateful for not having to dig through it all just to come up with the same conclusions.

However, I have been fooled before and I will probably get fooled again- but that is what I set myself up for when I take someone for their word- and I accept that for myself. I do not get angry because my trust was taken advantage of- I just do not follow that persons posts and will not take part in threads they start.

The pesky little critter on here who annoyingly cloy to their selfish requests are generally the ones who are too lazy to do the research for themselves, so they annoy people with their "prove it to me" manipulations. I can see where being a "staff" member must be especially grating in this area. So, again I feel for you and ATS in as much as I am able to.

I wish you luck in your literary endeavor and hope it brings you what you want it to.

Not all of us are annoying and I hope the administrators here have a little red annoying pest button and are not afraid to push it!

Take care!

Originally posted by jritzmann
Until people stop being married to data before all the chips are counted, this is going to be one vicious merry-go-round. Becoming emotionally attached to any photo, or visual evidence is a bad practice, and one that ultimately binds you to disappointment and wasted time.

Great quote. I am a writer and computer programmer. A few months ago, I overheard a junior programmer saying that "data doesn't lie." I yelled out of my office, "no, but it certainly can deceive." While data itself does not have intent, it can definitely skew the reality of a situation. Anyone who can't let go of that is bound for problems and disappointment.

Good luck in your future endeavors. We'll miss your active participation, but one does what he must. Happy trails.

/tn.

Warmest wishes and God speed, my friend...

Like you (and many others I presume), I've taken a brief 'leave' from ATS now and then to recharge the batteries and get some fresh air.

But I can't stay gone for long - and simply return with a more 'balanced' perspective and a much more selective level of participation. Yes, it's hard barking up a proverbial tree when many around you can't even see we're standing in a forest.

I look forward to hearing more from you and about you Jeff - perhaps even in the MSM, eh?

Good Luck to YOU... Just do us one favor: If YOU ever come across the definitive image, in your own HO, please let the rest of your old chums at ATS in on it, won't you?

Take care...

It's unfortunate but understandable that Jeff leaves for the reasons he wrote about. Many of the objective minded people frequent less than they used to and as a whole its unfortunate.

Wish you well Jeff in your UFO endeavers

I have to agree with you, people on here align themselves with a belief and never let go. True scientific fact and speculation, more than often, fall on deaf ears. It’s a shame, we will never learn anything by not opening up to fact and scientific study.

I can see his point. I would argue though that it is not the physical photo that people are emotionally attached to but the idea that it generates. This then takes you into the realm of being emotionally attached to something you can't measure or touch.....faith! At this point it's time to pack your bags and go home in despair. You can argue to the end of time since faith requires no evidence whatsoever!!!!!!!!

This site has, over the past year, become a magnet for all sorts of people expressing their undying faith in something or other. Be it, God, Aliens, 2012, Nibiru, NWO etc etc. The problem is the change from discussing things in a rational manner (amongst those open to the various ideas) to denying things in an irrational manner (by those with blind faith) has been subtle. So much so that even the moderators have been conned by it. Sorry guys but you have although I do understand it is difficult to draw the line somewhere. To put it bluntly there are some people posting here who desperately need to see a doctor before their delusions endanger themselves or those around them. BUT.....we are not allowed to say so in specific threads.......

Sorry to see you go. I'm new here but had already decided you were one of the "good" guys. Voices of reason are getting harder and harder to find in ufology. Domination of the field by "woo woos" is one of the reasons I left it 15 years ago. I agree there's a real enigma out there and this time I plan to stick out at least until I have answers that satisfy me if not everyone else. I do realize I will likely not get even that. Good luck to you in all your endeavors.

Good fortunes to you Jeff!

Though I never really got to talk to you - I found your work to be highly articulated and respectable. It's a shame to loose such a valued member of ATS but I completely understand your point of view and the reasons for your departure.

Best of luck with your new ventures mate!

May The Road Rise With You!

Best,
InfraRedMan

Jeff, I look forward to reading your book! You'll have to do the UFO talk radio circuit once it's done I hope you do a special about your book on the paracast.

I agree your time is better spent on those other projects. I've only been posting for a few months but also notice the quality of UFO posts decreasing the last couple of months at ats.

reply to post by jritzmann


Hi Jeff,

I feel like responding because you are talking about me and I can proove it.

I am not an image & photo expert like you are. I've been involed in the Ufology field quiet recently, actually the "photo-surprise" is my first case ever. (even so I "worked" on quiet a few other ones)

I helped people solve their cases quiet a few times (not as many times as you that's 4 sure) and I did get hassled sometimes or treated as a skeptic, debunker, zetetician, you name it. I am used to it and I assume it because I said "yes" when the "job" was given to me and I knew what to expect.

Let's face it, your very last contribution in this forum was a failure from my point of view and I am not the only one to think this way. This is
most probably why you are reacting like this. You even mentioned (without saying it word by word) that you were about to leave & stop being on ATS in "my" topic. Remember ?

Why ? Certainly not because I was attached to the case but because I did not say "amen" to your "analysis". (Was I supposed to in the first place, no matter what I thought ?)

Now, you don't know me but I work with skeptics in the Ufo field and I did learn quiet a few things with them :

-Reject any argument from authority
-Always ask for explanations & demonstrations when something is ambiguous or unclear (since I do not have your knowledge in these specific fields, it is normal, no harassing there)

Now, the funny part, you come up whining in this thread on how people get "emotionally attached" to something. It might be true in some cases even if your argument kind of sounds like a pseudo-psychological analysis. But, I do really think that you use this words to hide the fact that you cannot stand when people disagree or ask for further explanations when they are not convinced about what you told them. (specially when you do not demonstrate anything or don't have it backed up in any other way, besides saying my friend says the same thing)

That friend of yours came up full of arguments from authority, pretty funny but strictly unapropriated because it makes one think that if you don't know as much as I do, just "hut up. If you are good at something, don't even say it, just do it. Who never noticed that experts can sometimes be wrong or saying false statements anyway ? Humans, we 're only humans, remember ?


You can hate me but at least I was honest with you.

I told you what was on my mind and if you don' like it... Well just think again because this is what forums are meant for, discussions, disagreements, demonstrations, explanations etc...

If you cannot tolerate that people disagree or do not understand you sometimes, I do not know what you were doing in a forum in the 1st place. Maybe it was time for you to leave anyway. I respect you and what you did in the past but I won't be an hypocrit.

Good luck to you anyway...and for those who want to know what really
happened, please read this and make up your own mind : www.abovetopsecret.com...

One last, thing, I was really told by someone to ask for your help and again, I can prove it.

To the webmaster : On top of the "Conspiracy Master Forums" it should be written : Posters cannot argue, disagree or ask for a demonstration with the "experts" at least, we'll know what to expect...
This forum his hosted in America, a country I love for many reasons and this is one of them : en.wikipedia.org...

Think about it...

See ya.
Chris

reply to post by Europa733


I wouldn't recommend linking that particular thread in here as some kind of support for your cause. Because you really don't come across with all that much dignity.

Jeff Ritzmann is a far classier act than yours.