USA 2008: The Great Depression

reply to post by Christian Voice


Your inflation concerns reflect the country.. the fact that we are all raped at the pump, the store and in taxes..

But does not represent the underlying cause or direction of the economy. That's all I am saying.

I ran across this article and thought it would be helpful in this thread.

www.csmonitor.com...

reply to post by DimensionalDetective


If America goes into a recession, or if we already are in one.. naturally the world will follow us..

reply to post by Rockpuck

But the dollar is not just a currency, like it or not, it is THE currency. When the dollar falls, values fall. It’s that simple, and it’s because the world has adopted the dollar as a de-facto international currency. In this case, at its peril and to its eventual regret.

i agree. i'm trying to think of something profound to say..........so i'll type out a longer sentence to serve the purpose of no one liners......all out of profound thoughts! ha! ha! ha!

Originally posted by amatrine
I think there are a of posts on possible depression because people really are scared. I know I am, when I go to the grocer and can barley eat for the week.
I can not get food stamps, make over 40k, but I have a house and car payment, utility bills etc, and it takes away from my food and medicine.

If anything else gives, I have no food, or If I turn in my car, I have no way to get to work. If gas goes higher, I cant even get there.

I do not own a credit card, so you cant say I spend it on that. A lot of my money goes to health insurance and copays. There just isn't anything left. Nothing to do with irresponsibility . My house payment is cheaper that what an apartment cost here, so giving that up does no good.

I am almost 40, and never have seen times like this. So to me, is this a depression? Well on my level it is , when I am worried about what to feed my 7 year old and there is nothing I can do about it. To make it you need two incomes, but that does not work when your partner is ill, yet can not get disability due to lack of work credits, catch 22.

I agree this is something different than the depression, but the effects are the same. People hungry with no way out.

Ama

I made a post at the beginning of the year (which got 7,628 views) warning people of what was to come. 98.9% of the people who read it laughed at me.

It's posts like these are the best indication of what is REALLY going on. So many people are actually blinded by what the media tells them. Half say we're in a recession, the other half says we aren't. So who do you believe? Twisted statistics, or truths?

Well if you really want to know what's going on, OPEN YOUR EYES and read posts like this one. Turn to your right and ask the person sitting next to you how things are going for them.

I work for a major newspaper. They just outsourced 37 people's jobs in one department. Our closest competitor just outsourced at least that many jobs if not more. Why? To save money. To keep from shutting the doors.

I have a friend who's husband can't find a job to support his wife and 3 kids because the companies he is applying to are laying off their current workers and hiring Mexicans who will work for cheaper.

A family member was just forced into early retirement by another major company - Bell Helicopter.

Three other family members are losing their jobs with Dell because they're closing their Austin plant.

I ask you...what are the odds that ONE PERSON (me) would know this many people who are looking at possible financial ruin due to their job situations AT THE SAME TIME?

We don't need other people to tell us whether or not we're in a recession or a depression - we know how much we used to spend on housing, food, clothes, gas... and what we're spending now. We know whether or not we're making more money, less money or have no money at all.

Our government will NOT just come right out an admit just how bad our economy is doing because they don't want to cause widespread panic. But I STRONGLY suggest that all of you reading make preparations. Stock up on food and prepare yourselves for what is just around the corner. DO NOT rely on what our government or the media tells you. They are either LIES or HALF-TRUTHS!

I'm sorry... but is it really that big of a secret that our country is BANKRUPT and the Dollar is WORTHLESS?

People...I beg of you... Don't stick your heads in the sand and ignore what is around you until it gets better - PREPARE for the worst and HOPE for the best!

[edit on 3-4-2008 by ReginaAdonnaAaron]

reply to post by DimensionalDetective


Don't you know that the Independent is the equivalent of the Enquirer in Britain?

As for having record numbers on Food Stamps, that's in a few states that have been hit harder than most (W Virginia, Michigan, Ohio). And since we have a record high POPULATION, doesn't it make logical sense that we would have higher numbers getting food stamps? Especially with 15 million illegals?

Please, learn to question the media and their slant. THAT is one of the true enemies!

I just ran into an interesting article.

According to the February jobs report, there were 565,000 more part-time workers who wanted full-time jobs than a year ago. That's a 21.1% jump in the number of those who are under-employed.

In addition, a rapidly increasing number of people are being forced to take more than one job. There were 161,000 more workers in February who held more than one part-time job than there were in January. One economist said this is a further indication of how bad the market is.

money.cnn.com...

umm...the inflation rate is kinda messed up too, isn't it?

I was chatting with one of the ladies from the employment commission a few days ago....shh! don't tell my boss, what can I say, having my hours cut from 40+ down to about 25 or so kind of hurts! well she mentioned that I might qualify for partial unemployment..that I should apply. I told of that some of those from my shop had already did that, and well, they got one week they would have qualified but it seemed that they were keeping the hours just above what would qualify. and she said that that was becoming quite common.
so, some can say what they want...but I kind of believe this one.

[edit on 3-4-2008 by MagicaRose]

reply to post by dbates


I think that was a heartless thing to say when there are starving children and adults in this country. The United States of America and many homeless people.

Why don't you call a mission in your town and ask them how many people they feed each day .

I think you will be very surprised.

From my understanding, a recession is 2 quarters with negative growth. We havent even had one yet, so we are not in a recession. And im not sure about all of you, but I consider myself a middle class citizen (dont make too much and neither does my wife about 63,000/yr combined) but this year alone I have been able to buy a brand new house (fixed rate), house, and a new big screen tv. I have plenty of money in savings that I havent had to touch, and I have no problem paying any bills. If this is a recession then recessions must not be that bad because this is the best year of my life. The only thing that sucks for me right now is driving 60 miles a day for work, which is the reason i got rid of my truck and bought a car.

we hear alot about the housing market and foreclosures. the reason there are so many forclosures is because people were stupid and thought they could afford more house then they really could. then when that payment bumps up after a few years, they are screwed. In reality, is all of these people who spent money they didnt have that are going to cause a recession because since they no longer have a house, job, etc because of their own stupidity, there is less money being put back into the economy.

I have to ask of those who are particularly focused on the 'technical' definition of recession:

Don't you find it even the slightest bit irregular that, while you are unquestionably correct regarding the threshold for declaring 'recession,' so many unconnected, geographically separated, and economically diverse people are claiming a startling rash of downfalls have befallen their communities?

I know what the economist say, 'this is not a recession', and since they are the one's who are 'masters' of this particular concept one can't argue with the it They are correct. But wait; why haven't they coined a phrase that explains this particular scenario - gee, it's not a recession, its not a depression - then what is it? Certainly you can't maintain that the current state of affairs is 'normal' can you?

We've already heard from some of our participant who seem to exude an air of confidence on the matter - they seem to agree, generally speaking, that this 'economic situation' can be best described as 'tough noogies!'. But we can't ignore their debate counter-parts, steadfastly clinging to a collective 'The end is nigh!' motif.

Franlkly, I can't see the point of claiming victory in the analysis of this situation by determining whether or not this or that percentage of capital swelling takes place in the pockets of the financial overlords. I feel the economic approach belies the impact of the market on the human condition as a whole. In fact, were I to wax conspiratorial, I would say that it seems to be in place to purposefully obfuscate the impact of wealth on people at a cultural level.

Some actually contend that what we 'need' is more fiat money, or credit, or virtual specie to pretend we move around to satisfy some warped sense of 'balance'.

Certainly imposing a radical financial paradigm shift on the industry, just deserts in my book, is a solution that appeals to my sense of revenge (I might like to watch the entire 'trade on risk' philosophy crumble to a smoldering slag pile, a sort of financial "Control-Alt-Delete") But that won't keep me, and millions like me, from suffering hardships because high profit margins and continually escalating profit growth eluded the mega-wealthy. They messed up the market - let them pay for it. We already know they have the means to 'make good' on the debt crisis they created. Or would that be 'unfair'?

There is, sadly, no longer any doubt that they cannot be trusted to honorably uphold trade based on 'arbitrarily assigned' values applied to rocks, liquids, and other such physical and purely transitory trash. We have had thousands of years to develop trade into a non-destructive tool for the advancement of mankind as a community. Yet we have never once been able to extricate the potential for abuse of the model. We have even allowed the tool to become our master. I'm no mystic, nor ascetic, I want 'things' too, but I can not condone wantonly deceiving and cheating others to get it.

Here's a fantasy, let's 'cheat' the banks, as a global decision. We don't NEED their PERMISSION to abandon the credit plus fiat money model. Debt as wealth was their scam, tell them it failed - go plan another, and good luck with that because we already know you can not be trusted to be fair and honest in your undertakings.

[edit on 3-4-2008 by Maxmars]

Store Closings

* Movie Gallery closing another 400 stores
* Charming Shoppes (CHRS) closing 150 stores and cutting expansion plans by 50%
* Starbucks (SBUX) closing 100 stores and slowing expansion plans by 34%
* Ann Taylor (ANN) shuttering 117 stores and slowing store growth
* Boston Market evaluating its real estate opportunities
* Buffet Holdings sorting out its underperformers
* Sprint Nextel (S) closing 125 stores and 4,000 distribution points
* Cost Plus World Market closing 18 stores
* Liz Claiborne (LIZ) closing 54 Sigrid Olsen stores
* New York & Company (NWY) axing the Jasmine Sola brand and its 32 stores
* Ethan Allen (ETH) closing 12 stores
* PacSun (PSUN) closing all of its 173 demo stores
* Talbots (TLB) exiting its kids and men's lines through closure of 78 stores
* Rite Aid (RAD) exiting Nevada by closing 28 stores
* Macy's (M) closing nine stores
* Krispy Kreme (KKD) expecting many franchisees to close stores
* Kirkland's Home (KIRK) likely closing 130 stores
* CompUSA's remaining 103 stores being disposed of
* Rent-A-Center (RCII) closing 280 stores
* Sofa Express closing 44 stores in bankruptcy
* 84 Lumber closing 12 stores
* Home Depot (HD) closings some call centers
* Levitz Furniture disposing of 76 stores in bankruptcy
* Pep Boys (PBY) closing 31 stores
* Lifetime Brands (LCUT) closing 30 stores
* Big A Drugs liquidating its 21 stores


"There's a wave of conservatism that's hitting the consumer. There are very few people who 'need' another t-shirt or pair of jeans right now. "Putting aside whatever operational issues they may be addressing -- We're in an economy where people might begin to think twice about spending $5 on a cup of coffee; so suddenly you don't need two coffee shops on a single city block.""

"For the next decade, retailers are not going to have to open a brand new store because there's going to be so many empty ones that need to be filled."

Stores in Colorada out of stock, Gas to hit $6.00 a gallon.... Whats going on????

Originally posted by tdubz
we hear alot about the housing market and foreclosures. the reason there are so many forclosures is because people were stupid and thought they could afford more house then they really could. then when that payment bumps up after a few years, they are screwed. In reality, is all of these people who spent money they didnt have that are going to cause a recession because since they no longer have a house, job, etc because of their own stupidity, there is less money being put back into the economy.

My friend owned a business who employed 15 people on a regular basis, a out of town developer came to town ploped down 4 million to buy a mall Hire my friend GC firm to do a total remodel and completely screwed him out of everythig he had. My friend turned to the local DA's office and the Da even said he agree that these people were Credit thieves but they just had really deep pockets and had just spent millions in thier town and that the DA's office just didnt have the budget to take on someone with such deep pockets. MY friend lost everything his business his house everything. How's helping him? no one, he just doesn't have the Deep pockets to buy Justice. He wasnt stupid for loosing his house [snip]

Moderator Note:
Courtesy Is Mandatory
Civility and Decorum are expected.


[edit on 4-4-2008 by dbates]

Albertsons - many being sqeezed out by Walmart


Sharper Image - Stores Closing: 90 of 184 - Why? Things are not looking good for the 31-year-old company, which just filed for bankruptcy protection. The New York Times reported that the retailer will still operate 94 stores to pay off debts, but 90 stores, about half of all its outlets, are performing poorly and should be closed "as soon as possible."

Jasmine Sola - Stores Closing: 23 - Why? According to the Boston Herald, New York & Co. is shutting its chain of 23 Jasmine Sola upscale women's clothing stores that got its start in Harvard Square in 1970. The decision follows a battle over sexual misconduct charges at the company.
Dell to close its U.S. stores- The computer maker said Wednesday that it will close all 140 of its U.S. kiosks as part of the company's ongoing shift in how it sells its products.
Sony Connect Music Store Closing .........
Bay Street store closing and other biz notes - The Cat’s Meow Shoppe at 913 Bay St. in downtown Beaufort is going out of business.....
Strawberry Bazaar store closing after 38 years in Portsmouth.......

reply to post by StarTrekCowboy

Boston Market evaluating its real estate opportunities lol I use to work there. I left on vacation which I told them about and they ok'ed it. Then I come hom to find out I no longer have a job. God Bless the USA

The great depression of 2008 – the mother of all depressions
Article by Pascal Molliere
Saturday 17th November 2007, 01:46
Corporations, tell Functionpix about your event or product launch – all articles released on www.functionpix.com are optimised for high search engine rank results and we distribute news to the worlds media and throughout our online community of readers, pr agencies and industry professionals
2008 is set to be the darkest ever year in financial history according to Goldman Sachs – a new report claims.

The Times reports that the credit crunch is so serious that it may force the US banking system to cut lending by as much as $4,000 billion, prompting a “substantial recession” in the US.



As much as $400 billion could be wiped out from the US banking system prompting fears that the knock-on effect could spell an economic catastrophe on both sides of the Atlantic.

Find it here: functionpix.com...
------------------------------------
The Great Depression of 2008: subtitled "Goodbye USA and Israel"
After the Wall Street Crash of 1929, caused mostly by banks investing in questionable schemes to inflate their investments, the Great Depression descended upon America..... Just days after the administration (including the Treasury Department) agrees to support the repeal, Treasury Secretary Robert Rubin, the former co-chairman of a major Wall Street investment bank, Goldman Sachs, raises eyebrows by accepting a top job at Citigroup as Weill's chief lieutenant. The previous year, Weill had called Secretary Rubin to give him advance notice of the upcoming merger announcement. When Weill told Rubin he had some important news, the secretary reportedly quipped, "You're buying the government?"

Find it here: careandwashingofthebrain.blogspot.com...
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USA 2008: The Great Depression independent.co.uk — Food stamps are the symbol of poverty in the US. In the era of the credit crunch, a record 28 million Americans are now relying on them to survive – a sure sign the world's richest country faces economic crisis
Find it here: digg.com...
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The Great Depression 2008 - It can't happen to us....can it?”
Find it here: www.marketoracle.co.uk...
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Screw it go to google and type "USA depression 2008" - Bam 658,000 Hits

Everyone sure is pessimistic whenever we come to the subject of America

a few comments:
to those saying personal experience means nothing and government stats everything:
statistics are just large numbers of collected personal experiences, stripped of much of their info and fit into categories. What you have here is a somewhat random(*) sampling of real peoples experience with the economy. Sure theres selection bias and the sample size is tiny, but to say it means absolutely nothing is incorrect. from my rough estimate, we have a much higher percentage of people saying "Zis parrot is dead" than saying "its pining for the fjords". Not enough to prove enything by a long shot, but enough to make someone distrustful of gov stats (like me) take notice and suspect some trickery at work.


as to negative growth proving a recession and inflation being irrelevant: Isn't hidden inflation equivalent to negative growth? ie real growth = stated growth (taking into account the official inflation) - amount of unreported inflation, so if inflation is say 5% higher than stated, then growth is effectively 5% LOWER? In other words, you cant keep saying "ignore the inflation, look at the stats" cos if the inflation stat is wrong, so is the growth?

(of course I'm no economics expert so, I could just be talking out my $&^%)

To the mod who said (paraphrasing) "are you going to pick and choose which government/"official" source to believe....."

WELL OF COURSE WE ARE. find me one statistic from one department/agency/legit organization that is not contradicted/disagreed with to some degree by another agency/organization etc. At some point you have to decide who (if any) you are going to believe, and the only way to do this is research and personal experience/opinion

ANOTHER POINT.
since the given definition of recession/depression has been known for many many years (centuries?), governments/financial powers have had a long time to work out how to twist the stats and change the game so that apparent growth stays positive while the real world effects are the same as negative growth. (false inflation numbers is just one). Its like playing a game of monopoly, coming up with a rule for how to decide when someone is in a position to win, then changing the rules of the game and trying to claim the original rule is still valid.
90% of the people posting in this thread DO NOT CARE about artificial rules made up by economists to classify the situation, only about REAL WORLD implications that match common language definitions of recession/depression(**). We get your point but do you get ours?



(*)Ok so not really all that random at all hehe, but I hope you still got my point
(**) I do however agree with the comments re true depression vs current situation (corvette etc). I think part of what you are seeing is the effect of more and more wealth being taken from the poor by the rich, so while on average things dont look so bad, thats only cos the top 10% is doing well while the rest live in the #. (plus I think america IS/HAS BEEN for at least a few months going into a nose dive, while the fed tries to flap its arms to make it fly)

I just posted this on another thread, but it's relevant here as well.

www.foxbusiness.com...

WASHINGTON -- Employers worried about recession slashed 80,000 jobs in March, the most in five years and the third straight month of losses.

That's not counting ATA and quite a few others from this week and last week.

www.abovetopsecret.com...
i found this thread wherein it states warnings of a financial meltdown in America.

So much choas in America. So much choas created by those that represent the American people. Together we stand, divided we fall!