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USA 2008: The Great Depression

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posted on Apr, 4 2008 @ 08:41 AM
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Originally posted by StarTrekCowboy

Originally posted by tdubz
we hear alot about the housing market and foreclosures. the reason there are so many forclosures is because people were stupid and thought they could afford more house then they really could. then when that payment bumps up after a few years, they are screwed. In reality, is all of these people who spent money they didnt have that are going to cause a recession because since they no longer have a house, job, etc because of their own stupidity, there is less money being put back into the economy.


My friend owned a business who employed 15 people on a regular basis, a out of town developer came to town ploped down 4 million to buy a mall Hire my friend GC firm to do a total remodel and completely screwed him out of everythig he had. My friend turned to the local DA's office and the Da even said he agree that these people were Credit thieves but they just had really deep pockets and had just spent millions in thier town and that the DA's office just didnt have the budget to take on someone with such deep pockets. MY friend lost everything his business his house everything. How's helping him? no one, he just doesn't have the Deep pockets to buy Justice. He wasnt stupid for loosing his house [snip]
 

Moderator Note:
Courtesy Is Mandatory
Civility and Decorum are expected.

Obviously, your friend got screwed, but people lose their houses like this everyday. What I am referring to are the mass foreclosures that are happening due to people buying more then they can afford while getting an ARM. Then two years later, when its time for their payments to go up, the cant afford the house anymore and lose it. And with all the people who wanted more, but didnt make the money to afford it, its causing the economy to go down. Its a horrible downward spiral. the people who were foreclosed on, now dont have house or job, so thats that much less money going into the economy. By all the foreclosures happening, home values are dropping, affecting the economy. This combined with gas prices rising is not a good combination, but if people were responsible with their money, they wouldnt be in the situations that they are in. Their is no one else to blame but ourselves. Like I said in my earlier post, my wife and I are probably classified as lower middle class, yet this year we've bought a house, a car, and a big screen tv. These are 3 of the biggest purchases ive ever made. And I actually have more money left over at the end of every month then I ever had before. If this is a recession, lets kept it that way cause im loving it right now. Except for the gas prices lol
[edit on 4-4-2008 by dbates]




posted on Apr, 4 2008 @ 09:11 AM
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reply to post by tdubz
 


UM, yeah, I don't think so. People are losing their jobs at an alarming rate. Couple that with the rising cost of gas, utilities, groceries, and healthcare, we can't afford our houses anymore. Not because of over extension. I'm sur that there are alot of people that do overextend, but a large amount in the other boat. You can't blame the financial problems of this country on the poor. You just can't. The super rich ceos and upper management people have gotten so greedy and robbed us blind and gotten away with it. A few years back, the CEO of Bellsouth Dwayne Ackerman received a 14 million dollar BONUS, a BONUS. That was the salary of 284 service techs for 1 year. Then the company dropped 400 million on GPS so they could keep their techs on a leash, and then announced that they could no longer afford everyone and they surplused 9000 employees. That crap happens every week in the US. Xspedius Communications was bought by Time Warner Telecom in 2006. In Memphis at the time, Xpedius had 6 techs and 20 salespeople in a market for 8 sales people. The techs could barely handle the workload as it was. Time Warner had 5 techs and 15 sales people. When the acquisition took place, they cut 5 techs and hired 10 sales people. That's 30 sales people in a market for 8, and 6 techs in a market for at least 15. They did this nation wide. Hundreds laid off in the name of someone elses profit. This crap happens all the time. The company was not looking long term. They wanted their pockets fat and fast no matter who it hurt.
So don't give the crap about the poor people hurting the economy. How do you think they got that way? I just went from 75000+ a year to nothing. That hurts.



posted on Apr, 4 2008 @ 09:46 AM
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US looses 80,000 jobs in March alone.

Its not looking good for those people who over stretched themselves.

Link: BBC - 80,000 US job losses

When the US is spending at such a high rate, when jobs are being axed and inflation goes through the roof - people who have money start to save it. This only makes things worse.

I fear the sprial of recession has already started and it will take the US many years to get out of it



posted on Apr, 4 2008 @ 10:01 AM
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reply to post by snatchypaws
 


This is not just relegated to "those that overstretched themselves." This is hitting EVERYONE who lives on a modest income, regardless of whether they got sucked into the mortgage scam or not. Gas has gone through the roof, so just making a trip across town costs a fortune, food prices in my area have sky-rocked about 30-40 % on many items in just the past few months. These areas alone are crippling for many people who are trying to raise a family and make ends meet.



posted on Apr, 4 2008 @ 10:02 AM
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You know, I bet alot of the people that recently lost their homes, cars, and furnishing thought they had it "all going on" just a short year ago. But maybe that good-paying job they had got farmed out overseas, or their company laid them off due to down-sizing to keep profit margins up. What savings they had were then needed to pay their ever increasing mortgage,buy groceries, and pay bills.

Eventually it was all gone, and they found themselves homeless and out in the cold.

Is it really their fault that they were sucked in by the illusion of prosperity they saw in the economy? Maybe, but they had some help from a lot of disreputable mortgage companies and bankers that should've realized they were getting in way over their .s.

The banks and mortgage companies didn't really care though, when the buyer defaulted they'd simply repossess the property, and sell it to some other sap. They got to keep the down payment, all the payments made before the default, could take a write off on their taxes, and then sell the property all over again to someone else.

If you're on the business end of the deal, it works out just great! If you happen to be the homeowner though, you might have a slightly different viewpoint.

Where I live there were a lot of these people up until a few months ago. They moved out to the country from the big city, and built Italian villa style houses, two story log homes, and architectural wonders out of glass, steel, and wood. Now the majority of those homes are all being sold at a loss, or being repossesed by the banks. These people had good jobs, but a lot of the businesses they worked for shutdown recently, and moved elsewhere. Now you see a new house listing about every week in the paper..



posted on Apr, 4 2008 @ 01:24 PM
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Im in no way putting all the blame on the people, although alot of it lies with them. It takes several factors for this to happen, and i think bad decisions made by the public are one of the major factors. I guess where I live, all of this isnt effecting as many people as in other areas. I only know one person who is effected by job loss ( he works for dell which is about to close down a plant here in texas) but he already has a better paying job lined up. Im also a very frugal person and dont spend money unless its something i need. If its something big that i want, i will save until i can pay for it all at once. Gas prices are the only thing that have affected me so far, so i sold my truck and bought a car that gets twice as good gas mileage. That right there is saving me over 70 bucks a week on gas alone. I guess since i was never a big spender in the first place and dont have kids its a little easier for me then most, but i still believe that alot of the blame is on people and the decisions we make. why do we have classes in school for home economics and stuff like that but no classes like money management? If people would learn to only buy what they can afford, wouldnt this help the situation? I just read an article the other day that shows that the average unemployment rate under the bush era was roughly the same as it was under the clinton era, same for inflation. The article also suggets that a lot of the hype about a recession is due to the media playing it up so much and that since the public has to hear about a recession in the media everyday, the public wants the government to do something about it, which in turn makes the government start programs (stimulus package, etc) that might actually hurt the usa more in the long run then help.

Actually, i found the link
www.foxnews.com...

Keep in mind that i did not verify any of the data, so take it with a grain of salt, but it is still an interesting article.



posted on Apr, 4 2008 @ 08:24 PM
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US jobless data worse than feared

US employers shed 80,000 jobs in March, Labor Department figures have shown, in the latest sign that the US economy may be falling into recession.


Link To Story



posted on Apr, 4 2008 @ 08:32 PM
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Originally posted by LLoyd45
Instead of covering what's happening to our country, they have us all mesmerized by the feud going on between Clinton and Obama. When the bottom actually does fall out from under our feet, then they'll cover it..

Unfortunately most of us won't have electricity for our TV sets to watch it. Oh well.. It was nice while it lasted.

-----------------------------------------------
To those who play poker with the puppets and to those who prostrate to the lure of Illusion, People do not matter.......to them, people are just stock market commodities to be used and abused.

Ultimately, it will be the people who will have to unite and conquer this situation, .-on.



[edit on 4/1/08 by LLoyd45]



posted on Apr, 4 2008 @ 09:42 PM
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Wall Street banks were soaking up debt at the rate of 38 Billion a day last week from the 'Fed'. You can't print money like this without creating an avalanche of inflation.

Even the War Without End is 'only' costing us 200 million a day!
I saw an article on cnbc today about who's on the 500, 1000, and 5000 dollar bills. How timely is that? We'll be seeing those bills being printed enmass soon enough. Just one more inflationary ripoff for the History books.



posted on Apr, 5 2008 @ 06:16 AM
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Originally posted by snatchypaws
US looses 80,000 jobs in March alone.

Its not looking good for those people who over stretched themselves.

Link: BBC - 80,000 US job losses

When the US is spending at such a high rate, when jobs are being axed and inflation goes through the roof - people who have money start to save it. This only makes things worse.

I fear the sprial of recession has already started and it will take the US many years to get out of it


it isn't looking good for most people period!! my paycheck has been halved since the first of the year, the work just isn't there for full time hours. my husbands paycheck has also been affected, lack of work. but it's not as drastic with his. there's very few people who wouldn't be in trouble if their paycheck was halved like that, overextended or not. we're just lucky enough that we were running a pretty good surplus when this hit this time around.

we've lived through a few recessions, always at least survived them. we're in the best position we've even been in this time around, family is grown, both are working, and well...if this is just a recession, we'll make out okay.
most of you will also I bet, might be painful, might lose a few possessions, a house, whatever...but you'll survive and come back.
but, what I am worried about is...this just doesn't seem like you typical recession. there's way too much being spent on war, the national debt is outrageous, too many companies have shipped their production jobs overseas, the natural disasters now seem to be hitting on a weekly basis, and.....the citizens are more likely to be overextended, upside down on the mortgages, maxed out on their credit lines....I can't seem to shake this feeling the the power players of the economy themselves have lost control of the train and it's speeding toward the cliff and they have no idea how to stop it. and, if they fall, they will crush us.



posted on Apr, 5 2008 @ 08:48 AM
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finance.yahoo.com... SOURCE

biz.yahoo.com... ARTICLE

"Biggest Job Loss in 5 Years Sets Off Recession Alarms; Nearly Quarter-Million Gone in 3 Months "

The link above has a very good article concerning the new numbers concerning job losses. Read for yourself and form your own opinion. Think for yourself, while you're at it, too.


[edit on 5-4-2008 by Bowcatz001]



posted on Apr, 5 2008 @ 09:27 AM
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I'm just not seeing this at street level.

Really I do not see soup lines, mass umemployment (hell, I have 2 jobs), rampant crime, etc.

The Mass Media is not trying to "cover up" any recession at all. Quite the opposite. They are hyping up an economic downturn to ridiculous levels! This is hardly a recession, much less a depression. Ask an old person who survived the Great Depression and I'm sure they will laugh. You aren't starving. At worst your stocks/bonds took a hit.

If you will notice, this is all about pushing a socialistic agenda upon the American people by making it seem like the only solution to a crisis situation. First, they need a crisis situation. People will be more likely to give up freedom in exchange for "interdependency" (AKA socialism) if they believe it is necessary to survive. We have two Marxists running for the Democrat candidacy right now and the Mass Media is on their side.

(Edited for dumb grammar.)

[edit on 5-4-2008 by spaznational]



posted on Apr, 5 2008 @ 09:33 AM
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Straight from the horses mouth---Stats from the U.S. Department of Labor's web-site on job losses:



THE EMPLOYMENT SITUATION: MARCH 2008

The unemployment rate rose from 4.8 to 5.1 percent in March, and nonfarm
payroll employment continued to trend down (-80,000), the Bureau of Labor
Statistics of the U.S. Department of Labor reported today. Over the past
3 months, payroll employment has declined by 232,000. In March, employment
continued to fall in construction, manufacturing, and employment services,
while health care, food services, and mining added jobs. Average hourly
earnings rose by 5 cents, or 0.3 percent, over the month.

Unemployment (Household Survey Data)

The number of unemployed persons increased by 434,000 to 7.8 million in
March, and the unemployment rate rose by 0.3 percentage point to 5.1 per-
cent. Since March 2007, the number of unemployed persons has increased by
1.1 million, and the unemployment rate has risen by 0.7 percentage point.


www.bls.gov...



posted on Apr, 5 2008 @ 09:58 AM
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SPAZ national you bring up an interesting point.

The media will jump on nearly anything (except placing blame squarely on the international debt makers cartel) and they will "over report" it until it is beaten into everyone's mind.

But here is the realistic part, their really is a potential crisis in the financial markets, Risk was spread system wide and on top of so much leverage that the bankster cartel can no longer allow certain banks (which five years ago they would) to fail, the domino's would come falling down and we would have a complete halt in lending and this would crush the real economy. The wheels were already put in motion years ago when this risk was allowed to be intertwined amongst banks in credit default swaps and leverage was to be built to the sky on a tiny base of actual capital. Greenscam allowed the deregulation of the industry and lobbies pushed for clinton to repeal glass-seagall investment banking laws (which served to protect ourselves from this kind of increased systematic risk).

during times of low risk credit expansion, these measures seemed wonderful, and did seem low risk, what an illusion-as we see now, similiar to all the banks "record earning's" of the past five years built on a foundation of sand. DEbt demand is the only thing that seems to grow out GDP these days. instead of investment in tangilble infrastructure, more debt is attempted to be created.

We are like rome, where we try to delay the collapse of our "empire" by depending on fraudulent lending =debt creation to keep economy on life-support as well as devaluing the currency and then soon we will likely replace democracy w/ "tyranny" to prolong the empires imperialistic pax america/PNAC "pre-emptive war" and maintain just enough of a standard of living to keep american debt slaves making payment to bankng "masters" while they try to take their debt-game to emerging country's where their citizens actually have room to take on more debt.

in america most citizens don't have room to take on more debt (right now) and many find it harder to make minimum payments, under these circumstances (we are of lesser value in the eyes of the banking cartel)

unless house values can escalate shortly (and american's can have something of which to borrow against of rising nominal price) we may reach the point where a fork in the road exists between revolution and third world reality/debt serfs a third option IMO is debt forgiveness (or in otherwords a 50,000$ check to each citizen) so they can service their debt with less valuable dollars) this could be carried out in consecutive checks of increasing value i.e 600, 1800, 5,000, 20,000 etc. which would not be as valuable to debtors because we wouldn't be able to service as much prinicpal, just mainly regenerating interest on debt

[edit on 5-4-2008 by cpdaman]



posted on Apr, 5 2008 @ 11:36 AM
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reply to post by spaznational
 


We don't see those things on a large scale YET. This is just the beginning of troubles. Bear Stearns 13 Trillion of junk derivatives was transfered to JP Morgan. Raising their stake to 90 Trillion worth of OTC derivates, swaps, etc. This amount is Ten Times the National Debt, which is outrageous in and of itself. When the debt fails to perform the 'notional' value (90 Trillion) becomes the real value. The entire gdp of planet earth can't touch that number.

MBIA was downgraded by Fitch. This will cause another round of speculation on those junk derivatives. So just because we don't see the effects YET (which is debatable) really doesn't mean much. As to the MSM, I don't pay any attention to them either way. They were consolidated and bought long ago by the very money men who brought about the greedfest that we will all pay for.



posted on Apr, 5 2008 @ 12:06 PM
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Originally posted by HimWhoHathAnEar
reply to post by spaznational
 


We don't see those things on a large scale YET. This is just the beginning of troubles. Bear Stearns 13 Trillion of junk derivatives was transfered to JP Morgan. Raising their stake to 90 Trillion worth of OTC derivates, swaps, etc. This amount is Ten Times the National Debt, which is outrageous in and of itself. When the debt fails to perform the 'notional' value (90 Trillion) becomes the real value. The entire gdp of planet earth can't touch that number.

MBIA was downgraded by Fitch. This will cause another round of speculation on those junk derivatives. So just because we don't see the effects YET (which is debatable) really doesn't mean much. As to the MSM, I don't pay any attention to them either way. They were consolidated and bought long ago by the very money men who brought about the greedfest that we will all pay for.


You and I and probably every ATS user knows that the MSM is complete fear-mongering rubbish. Unfortunetly we are a small group and the all-powerful Average Joe still believes the MSM is a good source of information and news. We also know that the Stock Market is more emotional than logical, so when the Talking Heads on FOXMSNBCCBSABCCNN start exaggerating economic problems a good portion of shareholders will freak out causing a REAL economic problem.

I hate to see the Fed bail out Wallstreet. These financial institutions need to feel the crunch of their greedy policies. Instead they are learning that it is ok to be greedy and sloppy because the Fed or government won't let you fail. And don't get me started on the CEO golden parachutes.



posted on Apr, 5 2008 @ 03:17 PM
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One thing that I have not seen anyone speak on at leangth is the idea that the U.S. economy is purposefully being tanked to weaken the world economy, as a way of weakening individual countries to prep for a fight, as well as using the threat of such as a way to try and force the hand of leaders.



posted on Apr, 5 2008 @ 03:17 PM
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why i suddenly the unemployment rate such a big deal? in the article i posted earlier, the unemployment rate under the bush administration has averaged lower then under the clinton administration. both administrations averaged about 5.2 with bush being a little less then that. in fact, back in 2002 and 2003 the unemployment rate was in the 6's so why the big fuss now when we are just barely in the 5's. the reason is the media these days report every single job loss they see and pound it into our .s. the high schooler down the street could get fired at mcdonalds and it will probably show up on cnn with the .line "Economy in downward spiral, Mcdonalds cutting back workforce."



posted on Apr, 5 2008 @ 04:53 PM
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reply to post by tdubz
 


Can I have that high schoolers job? I'd love to have at least a jib at McDonalds. I can't get a job anywhere. I've been to 4 different towns (the furthest is about 50 miles away) and have filled out applications at nearly every place there is. Most places aren't hiring and won't give me an application. The places that are hiring for some reason won;t hire me, instead they hire a girl who is a total "b-word" and has no customer experience at all and treats me and the other customers like crap. It pisses me off, I have a hard enough time keeping a job cause I get sick so much and the doctors never take the time nor do they care to find out what's really wrong with me. What I have is like getting the flu and bronchitus any time I'm in the cold (below 70 degrees) for longer than an hour. Nobody cares or understands how hard it is to be as sick as I get so much and not be able to keep a job because of it, I don't qualify for Government aid either. I wish I didn't have this crap.



posted on Apr, 5 2008 @ 06:29 PM
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We must get this federal spending under control, get a fair trade policy, and cut out all this Illegal Immigration. The middle class jobs are given away to cheap imported labor call work visa. Companies are now laying off due to fast rise of gas has cut back spending and consumer goods. The housing market is going down like the Titanic and Bush did not know gas was up to $4.00 a gallon.

Who in their right mind would want to be president in a mess like this?



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