Obama Says He Doesn't Want His Daughters Punished with a Baby, page 3
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reply posted on 3-4-2008 @ 05:51 AM by FlyersFan
Aricle - Obama's Abortion Extremism

Originally posted by apc
You can only murder a person. I do not believe a fetus up to a certain time is a person. Alive, yes. Person, no.

The child is a person. He or she isn't a cow or a duck .. but a person.
A human heart beat is stopped. That person has been murdered.

If it is a person, are we supposed to hold a funeral every time a woman has a miscarriage?

Many people do. They understand that it was a person .. their child.
The child is named. They bury the child. The child is mourned.
He or she is mourned even if he or she is 'lost in the toilet' as you say.

Others? Perhaps they've listened to those who say the child was just a
lump of cells. At any rate .. the loss of the child is mourned.

Originally posted by Sublime620
Luckily she had an abortion, which granted her to opportunity to go to college and meet my father.

Adoption would have done the same thing .. and no one would have died.

So because of the abortion:

...you have a dead sibling.

Who knows what would have happened if she was not able to have one.

Yes .. who knows. Your sibling could have been the one to find the cure for cancer. Your sibling could have been the one to write the next great novel. Your sibling could have been the one to be a great Senator. Yes .. who knows what could have happened.

Who are you to judge anyone?

Ah yes .. the mantra of the pro-aborts. Those who point out what's wrong with abortion must be 'judging' the person who does it. Silly, silly, silly. Pointing out that abortion is a wrong act in no way 'judges' the people who have them. It just points out the error of that decision.

Just because a few use it for birth control, that doesn't mean the rest (and the majority) aren't doing it for the right reasons.

A few??? Abortion IS birth control unless it's used because the life of the woman is in danger. Almost all abortions are for 'birth control'. It's a late version of it.

Most kids live in orphanages, or as my girlfriend says, "Group Homes" (apparently orphanage is politically incorrect now).

Uh .. no. There is a waiting list for babies that is YEARS long. Years. There is a baby shortage in America. Babies don't end up in 'group homes'.

Just like abortion, adoption is not a perfect solution. There is no perfect solution.

Adoption is a better solution then murder.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
I'm aware of the typical anti-choice opinions.

This is another funny mantra from the pro-aborts. "anti-choice"
No one took away their right to choose if they want to have sex.
That person made their own choice .. fully knowing that a child
is the original intended outcome of a sexual union.

When a woman commits abortion she doesn't kill herself .. she kills another human being. She stops another human beings heart.
Murder isn't a 'choice'. It's wrong.

Originally posted by apc
If you don't agree that's perfectly fine. But a lot of people do.

Thanks. Same to you all. If you don't agree .. fine. But a lot of people do agree that abortion is killing a human child. Especially those who survived abortion or who had moms who decided to let them live.

This post made purely to continue the train and give FlyersFan another post to respond to.

apc .. you are a gem.

For those of you who agree with Obama ... I offer you this ....
Go have a nice day. Enjoy yourselves. It's a beautiful spring day.
Go appreciate it. Thank God and your mom for allowing you to live.
And remember those who were killed before they could appreciate the day.



[edit on 4/3/2008 by FlyersFan]


reply posted on 3-4-2008 @ 07:38 AM by dbates
reply to post by TKainZero

Exactly. What's that old saying? "Better for someone to think you're a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt." Obama needs to stick to his scripted conversations and not try to wing it. He's going to sink his own ship if he continues like this.



reply posted on 3-4-2008 @ 08:22 AM by FlyersFan
Originally posted by dbates
He's going to sink his own ship if he continues like this.

GOOD!

Originally posted by apc
Are people on bypass machines dead?

Their blood still flows and the heart is intended to start again after repairs.
Their souls are in their bodies. They are alive.

I qualify a person as a human that is self-aware at some level.

People in comas are still alive. So are people in deep sleep.
They are alive but aren't 'self aware'. Doctors think new born babies
aren't self aware. When they are able to think that way, for the first
months they think they are an extension of the mother and not their own person. Does that mean it's okay to kill babies under four months of age
because they aren't self aware?

A lump of cells that does not have a brain is not a person.

I undersand what you are saying apc. Really.

The problem is that very soon in the pregnancy a heart is beating. Nerves are established. PAIN RECEPTORS are there. Babies sleep in the womb and even suck their thumbs very early on. They play with their toes. They open and close their eyes.

Babies in the womb who are operated on are given pain killing drugs during surgery. If it is acknowledged that they feel the pain of surgery .... it shouldn't be too hard to see that they feel the pain of being burned to death with the solutions .. or feel the pain of being ripped apart by a vacuum... or feel the pain of being shredded by the abortionists medical instruments.

I encourage counseling because often time psych issues are already present and can be made worse by termination,

VERY good advice. The emotional scars are many times deep and heavy.


[edit on 4/3/2008 by FlyersFan]


reply posted on 3-4-2008 @ 12:55 PM by apc
reply to post by FlyersFan

You have used the Bible to support your argument.

I've made it very clear I do not approve of termination at 21wks and that age is not what I am talking about. I think by 21wks the woman should damn well have already figured out if she wanted to continue and has decided by default, absent extreme circumstance, to keep the child. Do I consider it murder at this point? Yes. Do some others? No. I think if a woman wants the fetus out after 21wks it is still her body and she has that right but the child should be placed in incubation as its chances of survival are good. Killing it is pointless and insane.


reply posted on 4-4-2008 @ 12:06 PM by FlyersFan
Story Here

A Christian Group is demanding an apology from Obama for his - punish with a baby - remark.

Oh .. and they PROTESTED him when he was in West Chester PA a few days ago. But the media, who are madly in love with him, never showed the protesters or reported that not everyone was happy with him.


reply posted on 4-4-2008 @ 07:31 PM by 44soulslayer
reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


BH, while I am wholely on the same side as you in viewpoint, you have to concede that there is an issue surrounding the conflict of natural right protection with abortion.

If the fetus is considered a life, then would it not violate its natural rights to be terminated?

While simultaneously it is a violation of the woman's right to self choice.

Nobody should force the woman what to do, but nobody should allow the fetus to be killed either if it is considered a life.

Rather sadly, the declaration of independence says "We hold these truths to be self evident, that all men are created equal". Had they used the word "born" equal, there would be no debate about the constitutionality of abortion because it would be a system of birth rights rather than natural rights.

Hence the moral dilemma. Pragmatically of course, abortion is a massive victory for the social and economic infrastructure of a country.


reply posted on 4-4-2008 @ 07:39 PM by jsobecky
reply to post by 44soulslayer


Originally posted by 44soulslayer
If the fetus is considered a life, then would it not violate its natural rights to be terminated?

That, of course, has always been the crux of the debate - when does life begin?



Originally posted by 44soulslayer
Hence the moral dilemma. Pragmatically of course, abortion is a massive victory for the social and economic infrastructure of a country.

I've tried parsing that last sentence several ways, and still cannot understand what you mean. Please elaborate.
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