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Obama Says He Doesn't Want His Daughters Punished with a Baby

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posted on Apr, 2 2008 @ 11:45 AM
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Originally posted by Sublime620
That's your opinion. Not everyone believes that.

No .. that't the truth. Not everyone SEEs it .. but that is the truth.


can you tell us at what point the baby is injected with said soul?

At the moment of life .. conception.

Actually - there is 'evidence' in scripture (if you wish to use scripture as evidence of any kind) . Mary had just concieved Christ. She went to visit her cousin Elizabeth. John the Baptiser was in Elizabeths womb. Upon being in the presence of Christ he was filled with The Holy Spirit. This shows that John (6 months in the womb) was spiritually aware and therefore 'was really there'. This also shows that Christ (just a few days in the womb) was there because John was aware of him being there.

Other than that .. no evidence that I know of.

It's just common sense that there is a human life .. and a human heart beating... and that no one should be stopping that heart from beating. To stop a human heart from beating is to kill that human.


Let's not make this an abortion debate.

Isn't that a little passive/aggressive of you? Supposedly ask the questions and then say 'never mind .. it's all off topic'.


This thread is about how people think obama is saying that babies are punishments,

Actually, this thread is about how Obama said that babies are punishments. Not that people think he said it .. that's what he said.

Abortion is obviously part of that topic.


when in actuality, it was just taking his words out of context.

To use your words - That's your opinion. Not everyone believes that.




posted on Apr, 2 2008 @ 11:53 AM
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reply to post by FlyersFan
 


See, I don't think we really need to get into this debate. We can... but it's really kind of off topic.

The reason I say it is off topic is because it's plain to see Obama is not against pro-choice. No one is shocked by that. Are you?

Obama, who is a great speaker, just made a mental faux pas. I'm surprised people would get so angry, we've been dealing with a President who can't deliver planned speeches coherently.


apc

posted on Apr, 2 2008 @ 12:03 PM
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Flyers Fan... that's fine if you have your beliefs.
Here's what you do: Don't have an abortion.

Leave everyone else alone.

You know what happens when abortions aren't permitted? How they were done before the 70s? They were done in backalley "clinics." They used a spike to rupture the uterus causing an infection. When the woman was admitted to the hospital for the infection the doctors would have no choice but to terminate.

All because some woman couldn't take the consequences of her mistake. You may not see it as punishment, but they do. Their opinion is what matters. Not yours. It's their life. Not yours.

It's going to happen. Ranting about what some book tells you to rant about isn't going to solve a thing. It can either be done in a controlled, sterile setting, or next to a dumpster with a coathanger.

>
btw, I share your belief that a fetus is alive. But so are the millions that are flushed down toilets every year. I would not approve of the intentional termination absent extreme circumstances. But I'm not about to make the supremely arrogant move of telling others what to believe or how to live.


[edit on 2-4-2008 by apc]



posted on Apr, 2 2008 @ 12:26 PM
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Originally posted by FlyersFan
It is a gift.


Perhaps to you, it is. Certainly not to me. You give a motorcycle to one person, it might be a gift. Give it to my grandmother, I guarantee she wouldn't think of it as such.


Originally posted by Sublime620
Let's not make this an abortion debate.


But if they don't make it about abortion (which was not even the subject of the Obama quote), there's nothing to talk about. This is just the right scraping the bottom of the barrel and an indication of how desperate they are to find something unlikeable about the man.


Originally posted by FlyersFan
Actually, this thread is about how Obama said that babies are punishments.


To some people, they are. They get to say whether they think having a baby is a blessing or a disaster. Listen to what conservative columnist, Armstrong Williams has to say about it.

Video



posted on Apr, 2 2008 @ 12:59 PM
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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
This is just the right scraping the bottom of the barrel

No, this is about the typical liberal mentality that individuals are not accountable for their actions. The government will be there to protect and nuture you with food stamps, welfare, healthcare and paid for abortions because you* are too stupid to realize, or just too ignorant or lazy to admit that babies only come from sex. Don't want a baby? Then don't have sex. It's a physical law of nature, not a created myth from the conservative right. We want all the fun we can have without the consequences of our actions. Well, the real world doesn't work that way.

The liberal mentality is a slow but sure path to a Marxist government where the government gives you food, pays for your housing, and gives you medical care. All you have to do is be part of the collecitve herd of individual minds who think they're free to do as they please, but in reality are slaves to the government.

Can't you see though the current "crisis" situations in our country? The "Energy crisis", the "housing meltdown", and the healthcare scare. These are simulated, constructed fear-mongering events to create the need for government to take over and run more and more of your personal life. How can liberals pretend to be "progressive" while at the same time, striving to fall back to the time when we were all serfs and the lord of the castle took care of all of our needs?

Abortion is just one other ficticious crisis that liberal leaders love to preach about to control the masses. Yes you need an abortion and you want us to help pay for it. So go out and have all the sex you want without a life partner to help you raise the child. If things don't work out, the government will help you out. Don't be punished with a baby, or a STD. Don't be accountable for your own actions. That would mean you wouldn't need the politicians to care for you.



*you - generically. Not you, Benevolent Heretic



posted on Apr, 2 2008 @ 01:44 PM
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reply to post by dbates
 


Right.. because only "liberals" are pro-choice.


Why to make this a more partisan discussion than it already was. What a yada, yada, yada post. I'm not trying to be a jerk, but saying liberals are trying to make this country follow the Marxist path is just irresponsible and, well, wrong.

It's not so cut and dry, abortion, which is why it needs to stay off of this thread. Unless you so believe that you are right and the other 50% of Americans are wrong - which I wouldn't doubt that you do.

Ethics are always open to debate, as some values change and others are open to discussion. However, some people hold values in contrast to other values they hold. For instance:

Someone like you may come in here and say, "OMG abortion is so wrong, liberals are idiots, blah blah blah", and then go into another thead and say, "That child molestor should get the death penalty! Damn liberals are so spineless!".

So really, are we going to discussion abortion - which has been debated for decades - or are we going to discuss the real topic of the post?


*Edited to add:

Sorry, a bit harsh of a post, I just don't like people who sum up every situation as, "Damn those liberals!"

[edit on 2-4-2008 by Sublime620]



posted on Apr, 2 2008 @ 02:13 PM
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Originally posted by apc
Here's what you do: Don't have an abortion.
Leave everyone else alone.

Sorry apc .. but that's like saying -

Here's what you do: Don't commit murder.
Leave everyone else alone. (so they can commit murder).

It doesn't work like that.

I understand what you are saying.
But this is a discussion forum .. and I'm discussing ...



posted on Apr, 2 2008 @ 02:15 PM
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Originally posted by Sublime620
[So really, are we going to discussion abortion - which has been debated for decades - or are we going to discuss the real topic of the post?

Obama AND abortion are the topic. In order to discuss what he said, you have to discuss abortion as well. The two go hand in hand.

I understand what you are saying Sublime .. but the statement DOES mean that the two have to be discussed.



posted on Apr, 2 2008 @ 02:19 PM
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reply to post by FlyersFan
 


I just don't understand why. Everyone KNEW Obama was pro-choice, so why all the commotion about that?

If he was pro-life, now that would be a story.



posted on Apr, 2 2008 @ 02:24 PM
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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Originally posted by FlyersFan
It is a gift.

Perhaps to you, it is. Certainly not to me.

Life is a gift. Each day is a gift. We can't earn it. We can't create it.
We are given it as a gift. Life is not a punishment. It is a gift.

Abortion is one person stopping another person's heart from beating.
It is killing an innocent human being - just to make life easier for the killer.
This is punishing the innocent human to death.

What you are is God's gift to you -
What you make of yourself is your gift to God.

BH .. if you want to see life as a punishment .. that's your choice to do so. However it IS a life, and he or she, has his or her own beating heart.



posted on Apr, 2 2008 @ 02:25 PM
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reply to post by FlyersFan
 


I agree, God or no God, life is pretty great and we are lucky to enjoy it.

Sorry for one line, but I just wanted to agree with you FlyersFan.



posted on Apr, 2 2008 @ 02:27 PM
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Originally posted by Sublime620
Everyone KNEW Obama was pro-choice, so why all the commotion about that?


Really, Sublime, I DO hear ya' but ...

Everyone knows Obama embraces the culture of death. However, comparing a baby to 'punishment' .. that irks even many of those who favor abortion.

Abortion is a tragedy. Even many abortionists agree to this.

But allowing life to continue isn't a punishment. It shouldn't be called that.



posted on Apr, 2 2008 @ 02:31 PM
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Originally posted by FlyersFan
Everyone knows Obama embraces the culture of death.


Oy Vey


Originally posted by FlyersFan
Abortion is a tragedy. Even many abortionists agree to this.

But allowing life to continue isn't a punishment. It shouldn't be called that.


I wouldn't be alive if it wasn't for abortion. So I guess it is hard for me to share you're view.

Lot's of people discuss the life that is lost, but no one seems to think about the future lives that are made possible.

And I agree, having a baby is not a punishment, it was a slip up by Obama. He was just saying, and in a wrong way, that having a child at 15 severely cripples a person's ability to live a fruitful life.



posted on Apr, 2 2008 @ 02:44 PM
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Originally posted by Sublime620
Oy Vey

Hey .. ya'll say 'pro-choice' ... we have our buzz words too.


(And there is a 'culture of death' .. but that's for another thread. The abortuaries make money off girls coming in .. and off the sales of body parts going out.)


I wouldn't be alive if it wasn't for abortion.

You have every right to defend your own life. Abortion to save the life of the mother is NOT the same as murder. It is self defense of your own life. Two totally different things. Everyone has a right to defend their life.. not their lifestyle .. but their life.


Lot's of people discuss the life that is lost, but no one seems to think about the future lives that are made possible.

Actually, I think more people discuss the convenience of abortion and they forget the dead child. Abortuaries make it all 'clean' and out of sight.


having a child at 15 severely cripples a person's ability to live a fruitful life.

Adoption. That's why we have our daughter. Her birth mother didn't kill her. I thank God for my daughter and for her birth mother letting her live.


apc

posted on Apr, 2 2008 @ 05:35 PM
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Originally posted by FlyersFan
Here's what you do: Don't commit murder.
Leave everyone else alone. (so they can commit murder).

It doesn't work like that.

You can only murder a person. I do not believe a fetus up to a certain time is a person. Alive, yes. Person, no. If it is a person, are we supposed to hold a funeral every time a woman has a miscarriage? If it is a person, do you realize more people die by being flushed down a toilet or wiped on a maxipad than are ever born? You do know how rare successful implantation is, don't you?

Your saying, "It's the truth, everyone else just doesn't see it," is the exact same as the global warming nuts calling skeptics deniers. You can't call something the truth just because you say so. It doesn't work like that.



posted on Apr, 2 2008 @ 06:06 PM
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Originally posted by FlyersFan
Hey .. ya'll say 'pro-choice' ... we have our buzz words too.


Does that mean I can start calling you guys "Pro-abortionswithcoathangers"?


Originally posted by FlyersFan
You have every right to defend your own life. Abortion to save the life of the mother is NOT the same as murder. It is self defense of your own life. Two totally different things. Everyone has a right to defend their life.. not their lifestyle .. but their life.


Oh I do? Thanks for the tip. It wasn't to save her life. She got pregnant at a young age by some loser. Luckily she had an abortion, which granted her to opportunity to go to college and meet my father.

So because of the abortion:

  • My sister was born. She is very successful marketer working in Washington D.C.

  • I was born. I'm currently planning to major in Accounting, Business, and Computer Science. My end goal is to be an Actuary.

  • She got to attend college. She became a CPA and met my father who is now VP of a major company.

Abortion made my family what it was. Who knows what would have happened if she was not able to have one. Perhaps she would be living in a trailor park with two sons that dropped out of high school. Perhaps not.

Who are you to judge anyone?


Originally posted by FlyersFan
Actually, I think more people discuss the convenience of abortion and they forget the dead child. Abortuaries make it all 'clean' and out of sight.


I truely doubt many think of abortion as "convenient". It's very traumatic to most people, but it's a choice that is made.

Just because a few use it for birth control, that doesn't mean the rest (and the majority) aren't doing it for the right reasons.


Originally posted by FlyersFan
Adoption. That's why we have our daughter. Her birth mother didn't kill her. I thank God for my daughter and for her birth mother letting her live.

Right, now if you'll only adopt a few hundred thousand more, we'll be caught up. Most kids live in orphanages, or as my girlfriend says, "Group Homes" (apparently orphanage is politically incorrect now).

While these homes, in America, are pretty good, the children still wind up with major issues when not adopted early. Of course, over seas, the homes are even worse.

Just like abortion, adoption is not a perfect solution. There is no perfect solution.

[edit on 2-4-2008 by Sublime620]



posted on Apr, 2 2008 @ 06:36 PM
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Originally posted by FlyersFan
Life is a gift.


OK. I accept that you feel that way. But Obama was not talking about "life". He was saying he didn't want his daughter to be burdened with an unwanted pregnancy. To you, they are the same, perhaps. To me (and Obama, I'm guessing) they are not.

Yes, burdened. A baby isn't always a blessing to everyone. Maybe it would be to you, but not to everyone. You don't get to determine if it's a blessing or punishment to everyone else. You can only determine that for yourself.

You'll never agree with a person who is pro-choice. Why bother?



Abortion is one person stopping another person's heart from beating.
It is killing an innocent human being - just to make life easier for the killer.
This is punishing the innocent human to death.


I'm aware of the typical anti-choice opinions. I do not share them.



What you are is God's gift to you -
What you make of yourself is your gift to God.


No. I do not agree with this at all. My life is mine. What I am, I accomplished and what I make of myself is up to me and for me and my loved ones.



BH .. if you want to see life as a punishment .. that's your choice to do so.


Well, thank you. I don't personally see life as a punishment. I would, however, not welcome a baby in my life. And I understand and agree with what Obama said and meant, even if you don't.


apc

posted on Apr, 2 2008 @ 07:25 PM
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Originally posted by FlyersFan
Abortion is a tragedy. Even many abortionists agree to this.

I look at it as a necessary evil. It prevents suffering, poverty, resent, and no self-aware thinking person is harmed. If Obama really was talking about abortion when making his statements, those would qualify as punishments. If you don't agree that's perfectly fine. But a lot of people do.



This post made purely to continue the train and give FlyersFan another post to respond to.



posted on Apr, 2 2008 @ 08:21 PM
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reply to post by Sublime620
 



Originally posted by Sublime620
I truely doubt many think of abortion as "convenient". It's very traumatic to most people, but it's a choice that is made.

Just because a few use it for bitch control, that doesn't mean the rest (and the majority) aren't doing it for the right reasons.


I sincerely hope that was an unintended typo...



posted on Apr, 2 2008 @ 08:36 PM
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reply to post by jsobecky
 




It was. Wow, possibly a Freudian slip of some sort.

*Edited to add:

I fixed it.

[edit on 2-4-2008 by Sublime620]



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