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Have Christians Been Duped?

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posted on Apr, 4 2008 @ 04:18 AM
We have all been duped, it amazes me that perfectly sane human beings argue about the validity of metaphorical stories put in place to guide us! The bible, the torah, the quran, all of them. they are all there to teach us that 1, there is a divine spirit and 2, it is important to be a "good person" basically to love. they are all the same, just as we communicate differently in different areas of the earth, we do the same when we follow god.

why as humans do we always feel the need to have some one come and save us?? We should be focusing on how to save our selves.

posted on Apr, 4 2008 @ 10:02 AM
The reason for all the similarities between the ancient astrological deities has to do with the reoccurance of certain celestial phenomena. You see the planets of our solar system is like a clockwork. We have the four faces of Mercury, the 120 year pentagonial pattern of Venus, the two year cycle of Mars, the 60 year cycle of Jupiter/Saturn (hexagonial pattern) and so on. Take the cross, the star of David and the pentegram for instance. Common symbols which you will find everywhere. These are three of the keys of heaven. The cross is the cycle of the sun that shows the equinoxes, the pentagram is the cycle of Venus showing the morningstars and the star of David is the cycle of Saturn. In astrology these stars have personalities and in ancient times they represented gods and deities aswell as events like births etc. And every 2000 something years, something remarkable happens, the sun travels the eccliptic of the Zodiac backwards and ever 2000 something years it rises in a new constellation at spring equinox, and this marks the dawning of another astrological age. We are currently in the end of the Age of Pisces (though Pisces is much larger than the other constellations, it is common to divide the whole 360 degrees circle of the Zodiac into 12 30 degree sectors), entering the Age of Aquarius, meaning the story will start over, with mostly the same celestial chain of events happening all over again.

I don't find this strange at all. The official story says that astrology was invented in Babylonia a couple of centuries BC, but its much older than that. People have been amazed by the stars and the sun for tens if not hundreds of thousands of years, celebrating the equinoxes and the passing of the stars. Looking at the ancient Egyptian pantheon there is a clear connection to astrology. According to Jewish oral Torah and the Book of Enoch etc. we learn that it was the pre-flood sons of God/Watchers who stepped down from heaven and gave man astrology, and Eden itself was shaped like the Zodiac with the Tree of Life (the sun) and the Tree of Wisdom (the moon) in the middle. In a geocentric world the coarse of the sun and the moon appears to move like a serpent along the horizon and so on. According to oral tradition there were 72 generations present in Eden who represented the 72 original constellations on the heavens. Ursa Major is the Son of Man, Adam and the Father sits on a throne around the Northern Star with a Lamb (Ursa Minor) in his lap. However the constellation I refer to as the Father is now only recorded in the Bible, and when Stephanus/Stephan pointed out that Draco is infact the Father with the Son of Man beside him, he was stoned to death by Saulus, later Paulus/Paul. For the constellation which is in the highest of heavens has since Babylon been Draco or the Dragon. The head of Draco and the head of the Father is the same. The body of the dragon is the right arm of the Father.

It's all about the stars. Or like it says in Psalms 19:1 "The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands."

And in Job 37:22 "Out of the north he comes in golden splendor; God comes in awesome majesty."

According to Kabballah, the Name of God was a word containing 72 letters starting with the four letters of the Tetragram, JHVH/YHWH. One letter for every constellation in the Zodiac/Mazzaroth. And we have all heared the words from the Lod's Prayer: "Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth."

posted on Apr, 4 2008 @ 10:07 AM

Originally posted by misswanderer31
You may think that I'm silly for believing in something that cannot be proven... life after death.... But I have seen dead people... I didnt ask to see dead people... (spirits) and no I am not insane or mentally unstable, or hallucinate or take drugs or drink alcohol. I dont see them often either. But when i do it scares the crap outta me.... Once I saw one... I got so scared I ran outta the house and locked myself out side and had to walk to a friends house to drive me to work... hahaha... well enough rambling... But hey each to their own... we are all entitled to believe what we want to believe....

Ah what can I say? No, I don't think you are "silly".

Best of luck to you.

posted on Apr, 4 2008 @ 10:14 AM

Originally posted by amitheone
This is a logical fallacy - Ignoratio Elenchi. Just because a wall looks red, it doesn't mean it's painted in blood. Just because a car has 4 wheels, it doesn't mean it is a Ferrari.

This is ignoring all context and matching similar words in order to link similarities, but when in fact when compared in context, it is totally different. Read the whole context first before concluding as one looks at a car before concluding what car it is.

This is similar in fashion like Zeitgeist. I can bet with you this is a poorly researched work.

I can bet you it's not - because it isn't
The Mithras link has been well known and researched by scholars for many, many years. There are several other deities that pre-date christianity with identical teachings (and I mean identical) that also prove that the christian mythos was plagerised from older sources.

Hate to break it to you, but it's just a simple matter of historical fact.


posted on Apr, 4 2008 @ 10:19 AM
reply to post by Excitable_Boy

Have they been duped? In a word - yes. Along with most other modern religious movements..
I'm all for recycling - and it's nice to know your new fleece jacket used to be 26 used pop bottles. I just wish people would recognise deity recycling when they see it though...


posted on Apr, 4 2008 @ 10:28 AM
reply to post by AshleyD

I disagree. As do most biblical scholars. Here's a little more about Jesu - errmm I mean Mithras..

Mythra was originally an Iranian warrior god who, according to the Avesta (Zoroastrian scripture) assisted the God of supreme Goodness and Light, Ahura-Mazda, in his cosmic battle against the Lord of Evil and Darkness, Ahriman. Somehow the Roman Mythras (not Mythra) gained autonomy from his Iranian roots as worship of him spread across the Greek and Roman worlds.

In the Roman cultic version, Mythras was a sun-god born miraculously in a cave. The miracle pointed to future miraculous accomplishments (not unlike Horus or Jesus). His birthday was celebrated with the kindling of lights just after the winter solstice: namely December 25--a date that was considered as well to be that of the birth of the sun. Early Christian celebrated Jesus’ birth on January 6, currently the date of the feast of the Epiphany. January 6, by the way, may have also been a holdover from more ancient rites, as it was considered the date of the birth of Osiris. Christmas was later moved to December 25.

[edit on 4-4-2008 by jimbo999]

[edit on 4-4-2008 by jimbo999]

posted on Apr, 4 2008 @ 10:36 AM

Originally posted by Neo Christian Mystic
The reason for all the similarities between the ancient astrological deities has to do with the reoccurance of certain celestial phenomena. You see...

The human mind has a great knack for pattern recognition doesn't it? Here is a little experiment for you. Take any or all of those patterns you mentioned and plot them out from a different frame of reference like another planet or another star. What happens? They vanish! Why? Because they are imaginary. There is no pattern, no meaning, no plan.

posted on Apr, 4 2008 @ 10:39 AM
I have done this so many times but I'm bored [read: procrastinating] this morning so here we go again.

Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
Mithras was born of a virgin by immaculate conception.
- He was born of Anahita, an immaculate virgin mother
Mithras was born in a stable.

Mithras was not born in a stable, to a virgin, by immaculate conception He was believed to have emerged as an adult out of solid rock as the ancient reliefs show.

We celebrate his birth on Dec 25th

This is true. His celebration was on December 25th. Just let me know where in the Bible Jesus was born on this date because putting two and two together, he was most likely born in the summertime or autumn.

Mithras was visited by wise men bearing gifts
Mithras had 12 disciples

Not true. For one, in some accounts he existed before the creation of humans and his 'twelve disciples' (and this is a stretch) were the signs of the zodiac. Jesus' apostles were actual people and most of them left behind writings, eye witnesses, and historical documentation of their existence.

He was called the Messiah

Not quite. Messiah was strictly a Hebrew word.

- Mithras was also the god of Darius, conqueror of Babylon, He was called "Messiah" or Christos by Jews during their Captivity.

It looks like this list has confused the Mithras of Rome with Mitra of Persia. Similar names but not the same. Due to the fact this list merges the two, it makes me think it was taken from the work of Franz Cumont in the 1800's (long since debunked in other words). He incorrectly merged both figures believing them to be one and the same only to later be proven wrong.

Mithras made a Contract (or Covenant) with Man confirming an older contract with God
- The Persian word Mithras literally means "Contract"

See above. Whoever created this list is trying to merge two different figures. Roman/Mithras and Persian/Mitra are different.

Mithras celebrated a last supper with his disciples before his death

Yes and no. Mithras was never believed to have died however there are reliefs showing him at a banquet.

Mithras died to atone for the sins of man
Mithras was resurrected on a Sunday

No he did not. He never atoned for the sins of man. Also, Mithras never resurrected on a Sunday because he never died. But it is true Sunday was his holy day.

Mithras ascended into Heaven to rejoin his Father

This is true to my knowledge (at least the ascending to Heaven part).

Mithras will return to pass judgment on mankind
- He was known as the judger of souls
On judgment day, the dead will arise and be judged by Mithras
Mithras will send sinners to Hell
Mithras will send the faithfull to Heaven
On judgment day there will be a final conflict between evil and good.
The forces of evil will be destroyed and the saved will live in paradise forever.

I'm not aware of any of this so forgive me if I'm not willing to give the creator of this list the benefit of the doubt.

Mithras is part of a holy Trinity that took human form

No he was not.

Mithras is depicted as having a halo

Actually, he is typically depicted as wearing a very funny looking hat with a point at the top. The only relief I know about depicting him with a halo post dates Christianity by about four centuries.

Mithras followers drink wine and eat bread which represent his blood and flesh.

The only place this shows up is in a medieval text post dating Christianity.

Mithras followers are baptised

Not sure about this one but since many ancients participated in ritual bathing we can consider this a likely possibility.

[edit on 4/4/2008 by AshleyD]

posted on Apr, 4 2008 @ 12:17 PM
Thanks for clearing up this subject. There are atleast three different Mithras. The Vedic-Indian Mitra, the Zoroaster-Iranian Mithra and the Greek-Roman Mithras. The names all share the same etymology and dates back to Indo-European. However the myths and stories are not the same. They have developed through the ages. Zeitgeist and other popular theories that tries to bring town the Jesus story to be nothing but an ancient classical myth, combines thousands of years of development from different traditions and places, and present it as a contineous story which shows similarities all over the world. The original religion was astrology and the different constellations or stars were personified. They found reoccuring patterns and the stories emerged and travelled all over the world.

posted on Apr, 5 2008 @ 04:55 PM
Ashley.....whatever. Once again, you must admit it is at LEAST curious that all these stories are similar including the story of Jesus. It makes the whole Jesus thing seem extremely made up and silly.

As I've stated before, Christianity was created by powerful people to control the masses. They needed a story. They needed a "Messiah." They found a story and created a Messiah. And you all are like lemmings falling into the sea.....

posted on Apr, 5 2008 @ 05:28 PM

Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
Ashley.....whatever. Once again, you must admit it is at LEAST curious that all these stories are similar including the story of Jesus. It makes the whole Jesus thing seem extremely made up and silly.

Er... no I do not have to admit anything. Did you check out the links I posted in my first comment to this thread that pretty much debunk this idea? You have been lied to concerning these false parallels. They are sheer fabrications.

As I've stated before, Christianity was created by powerful people to control the masses. They needed a story. They needed a "Messiah." They found a story and created a Messiah. And you all are like lemmings falling into the sea.....

If they invented anything, it would not have been taken from pagan figures but the Messianic prophecies in the OT. But I do not believe this either as I have explained many, many times on here concerning why not.

posted on Apr, 5 2008 @ 06:18 PM
Download this interview:

Michael Tsarion - Part 6 - The Twelve Lost Tribes, from Egypt to Rome


All religion the world over is some sort of Sun worship.

posted on Apr, 5 2008 @ 09:43 PM
So the sun can speak and command laws now? The astrological aspects of religion includes the sun as it's most prominent element, yes, but Judaism, Christendom and Islam is certainly not sun worship.

posted on Apr, 5 2008 @ 10:45 PM
Ashley D, I wish you were single and between the ages of 20-25 (you seem to be a very wise and mature person, which is why I think you are older than myself), cause I would marry you in a heartbeat. It's hard to find a woman who believes what I and a few of my friends on here believe. Any guy who has you as a wife is far lukier than he thinks.

I wish people would quit quoating the extremely biased Zietgiest and do there own research into this stuff, seriously, it's getting a little old, hearing someone quoat that piece of crap and then the next person disproving it is getting a little too common. Come on Jesus/God haters, can't you do better than that? Quit boring us with this mindless dribble (unless that's your agenda, so that we'll quit refuting what you say and you can go on living in an imaginairy Zietgiest world and take the unknowing with you), give us something different for a change. All I ever see on the section is "Christians Are Evil!", "Jesus Is Actually A Sun God!", or something like it, we've been through all this before, suprise us, give us something new to talk about. I don't mean to sound hateful, or mean, or anything, it's just so dull hearing the same thing over and over agian.


posted on Apr, 5 2008 @ 10:58 PM
I think Jimmy has a point here...

We can argue and debate whether christianity is true or false until the cows come home or pigs can fly... Once a person has made up their mind that they believe that this is true, or that is true why thump it to death and drag it on and on like a dog with a bone?

Is there nothing else that we can talk about then refuting christianity? and asking the question are christians being duped or brain washed or whatever... because as I see it we are just going round and around in circles... going no where with this topic.... I dont mean to be nasty or mean or picking on one particular person but this kinda topic is old and stale...

give me something tasty to chew on....

[edit on 5-4-2008 by misswanderer31]

posted on Apr, 6 2008 @ 04:03 AM
Post removed for off topic content not contributing to the original post/question.

Please remain on topic.

[edit on 6-4-2008 by NGC2736]

posted on Apr, 6 2008 @ 04:32 AM

Originally posted by AshleyD
You have been lied to concerning these false parallels. They are sheer fabrications.

Indeed they are. Esp. concerning Mithra. For instance, there must be dozens of stories about how the different Mithra figures came in to this world. From being created like Adam, to emerge from a lotus to being born by a virgin to simply just emerge in grown age and many more. These different stories rely on different traditions and even different Mithras. As for his death the stories vary just as much. And the same is the deal with all the other aspects in question. There are hundreds of different stories. The same is the deal with Horus of Egypt. Stick to hieroglyphs that can be translated. Like the Book of the Dead which tells a story where Horus is the son of Osiris and Isis. Later traditions place him as Isis' husband. And others say he is the son of Geb and Nut. Some even say he is the son of Ra. Stick to the original writings or atleast a single tradition.

posted on Apr, 6 2008 @ 06:01 AM
reply to post by Neo Christian Mystic

I think if you study that a little deeper you might find they are!

posted on Apr, 6 2008 @ 06:03 AM

Originally posted by Neo Christian Mystic
So the sun can speak and command laws now? The astrological aspects of religion includes the sun as it's most prominent element, yes, but Judaism, Christendom and Islam is certainly not sun worship.

was refering to above sentence, not much sleep = not good brain awakenessness or something!

posted on Apr, 6 2008 @ 07:08 AM
link do "links" debunk?

And I LOVE how you all always have to put Jesus and God in the same pot. I do not believe in Jesus and that makes me a God hater? Are all Jews God haters? Muslims? Buddhists...any other non-Christians? We all hate God?

God is wonderful and in my life...thank you very much. Jesus and God are not the same thing. *yawn*

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