Since the Rant section has mysteriously disappeared, I'll have to put this post here.

Anyway, I've been thinking about conservatives throughout history and I've realized that they are almost always the "bad guys".

Some examples: The conservatives destroying democracy in Iran this past week. Hitler and the nazis. The other facist Axis powers during WWII. In a way, Stalinists in the Soviet Union (Stalin vs Trotsky ideology). The creators and enforcers of Jim Crow in the south. European absolute monarchs. The Catholic Church during the Dark Ages. And on and on...

All these people and organizations have attempted to hold back progress, whether it be social, scientific, or political, in one way or another. They've all been enemies of what we consider freedom.

Eh, that wasn't as coherent as I'd hoped it would be, but I just HAD to share.

It's apples and oranges, but I think I know what you're getting at, Flinx. Though, what would be the antithesis of what you're referring to as a conservative, in your post here? I mean, Stalin was of course a communist. National Socialism was a very left-wing idea. Neither a 'conservative'. Hardliners in Iraq are trying to 'conserve' their power, sure, but oddly it's the 'conservatives' here in the US that seem to speak out against them. You're not trying to lump 'conservatives' of the present day US into the same category as Hitler, are you?

Originally posted by Bob88
You're not trying to lump 'conservatives' of the present day US into the same category as Hitler, are you?

Erm....of course not.

I'm just wondering why conservatives are always the "bad guys" in human history. But like you said there's no connection between conservatives in the present day US and conservatives in some society 1000 years ago. What is considered conservative by our standards might be radical by someone elses. That's why I wanted to put this is the Rant section not the Pit. Oh well.

To test my idea, I've been trying to think of instances throughout history where the liberals have been the "bad guys". I really can't come up with anything....some of the more bloody rebellions maybe? The beheading of innocent people in the French Revolution? I don't know....

They are the bad guys of today! lol.

Maybe 'left' is more appropriate when describing Stalin, the dear leader, pol pot, etc. I certainly wouldn't call them liberals as we'd call it, or conservatives. Just crazy lunatics. Though, I'd probably call Iranian clerics crazy lunatics as well, they're obviously described as 'conservatives' in the sense they are trying to 'conserve' their power. And that might not even be the very best way to describe them.

Yeah the whole conservative/liberal, right/left thing just breaks down when it comes to some people. Stalin and Pol Pot for example.....

As for the people in Iran, I think they're being called conservative because they are opposed to reform, which many associate with liberalism.

which is odd, because todays conservatives in the US are very much pro-reform, progressives. Tort reform, SS reform, tax reforms, education reform, so on and so forth. Whereas Liberals try to 'conserve' failed government programs by throwing more money into them, as opposed to 'reforming'.

[Edited on 23-2-2004 by Bob88]

I guess we are the bad guys because of the following ideas:

1) We want to remain a capitalistic country, not socialist, not communist, etc

2) "...white leaders of the Democratic Party in the state would agree with black political leaders, who were usually Republicans, on the number of county offices to be held by blacks. In theory, black voters would choose these black candidates, but in fact only black candidates acceptable to the white leaders were allowed to run. Any deviation from the plan was met with violence. Most black leaders went along with such arrangements because it was the best that could be achieved for the moment.

"In Mississippi, the method of controlling black votes and regulating their economic and public lives by full-scale and openly brutal violence was known as the First Mississippi Plan of 1875. Whites openly resorted to violence and fraud to control the black vote, shooting down black voters "just like birds." This ruthless and bloody revolution devastated the black vote in Mississippi, and fully 66 percent of the blacks registered to vote in the state failed to cast ballots in the presidential election of 1880. Of those who did vote, almost 50 percent voted Democratic rather than face the wrath of whites in the state. The white vigilantes made no attempt to disguise themselves as in the days of the Ku Klux Klan, and so complete was their victory that the Republican governor fled the state rather than face impeachment charges by the newly elected legislature."


3) We support the 2nd amendment because most violent crime is commited without a gun, and most are stolen rather then bought.

4) We are against the American Holocaust called Abortion, not to mention having to tell parents if their child wants an abortion.

youre right

Originally posted by KrazyJethro
I guess we are the bad guys because of the following ideas:

1) We want to remain a capitalistic country, not socialist, not communist, etc

2) "...white leaders of the Democratic Party in the state would agree with black political leaders, who were usually Republicans, on the number of county offices to be held by blacks. In theory, black voters would choose these black candidates, but in fact only black candidates acceptable to the white leaders were allowed to run. Any deviation from the plan was met with violence. Most black leaders went along with such arrangements because it was the best that could be achieved for the moment.

"In Mississippi, the method of controlling black votes and regulating their economic and public lives by full-scale and openly brutal violence was known as the First Mississippi Plan of 1875. Whites openly resorted to violence and fraud to control the black vote, shooting down black voters "just like birds." This ruthless and bloody revolution devastated the black vote in Mississippi, and fully 66 percent of the blacks registered to vote in the state failed to cast ballots in the presidential election of 1880. Of those who did vote, almost 50 percent voted Democratic rather than face the wrath of whites in the state. The white vigilantes made no attempt to disguise themselves as in the days of the Ku Klux Klan, and so complete was their victory that the Republican governor fled the state rather than face impeachment charges by the newly elected legislature."


3) We support the 2nd amendment because most violent crime is commited without a gun, and most are stolen rather then bought.

4) We are against the American Holocaust called Abortion, not to mention having to tell parents if their child wants an abortion.

1.) So do Democrats and liberals

2.)First of all, everyone knows the two parties switched places in the early 20th century. And second of all....huh?

3.)Once again, huh?

4.)No point arguing this point. It's been done....

Anyway, I'm talking about conservatives throuought history, not the republican party. Obviously they aren't considered the bad guys.....yet.

I am a conservative. And I say liberals will be the death of this country, as they were the fall of the Greek Empire.

You all ought to be pointing "the bad guy finger" at Bill Clinton for all of his temporary fixes and neglect of the middle east.

And George Bush should be given a damn medal for being able to inherit Clinton's mess and turn it into something halfway decent.

Originally posted by kramtronix

And George Bush should be given a damn medal for being able to inherit Clinton's mess and turn it into something halfway decent.

Heehee hee heeh hehe heeeh eheeh !!!

*You made me throw up a little! Salmon ain't as good going the other way!! *

Originally posted by kramtronix
I am a conservative. And I say liberals will be the death of this country, as they were the fall of the Greek Empire.

You all ought to be pointing "the bad guy finger" at Bill Clinton for all of his temporary fixes and neglect of the middle east.

And George Bush should be given a damn medal for being able to inherit Clinton's mess and turn it into something halfway decent.

You get my second vote for WTF? for the month. I don't know what WTF? means but it's the opposite of Way Above, and could easily serve as that "damn medal" you want to pin on W too.

I think Clinton left a helluva mess and Bush didn't do everything he could to clean it up. It's both their faults, but I blame Clinton for the attacks on September 11th.(I dislike him much more)

I've wondered about a related subject for years myself.

When I watch a movie or TV show where there's bad guys, as in politics, it seems obvious to me the writer intends me to think they are Republicans.

If the issue is dealing with gays or minorities or sexism, etc. it's kind of obvious. But even when it's a General or something that is about to blow up the world, he's kind of Republican. Always.

I wondered how conservatives view these same movies... Bob88?

Do you just sort of sigh and think damn Hollywood libs, or do you make the bad guys liberals in your mind? Though I can't see how.

Originally posted by RANT
I've wondered about a related subject for years myself.

When I watch a movie or TV show where there's bad guys, as in politics, it seems obvious to me the writer intends me to think they are Republicans.

If the issue is dealing with gays or minorities or sexism, etc. it's kind of obvious. But even when it's a General or something that is about to blow up the world, he's kind of Republican. Always.

I wondered how conservatives view these same movies... Bob88?

Do you just sort of sigh and think damn Hollywood libs, or do you make the bad guys liberals in your mind? Though I can't see how.

Umm...the first movie that comes to mind is enemy of the state. I think most hollywood writers are playing off the 'vast right wing conspiracy' thing. It's totally nixon's fault for that one. He's the one who started that image in peoples minds. Now many people think republicans are the bad guys, and not just politicians in general.

I've always thought that the media (news and entertainment) were left-leaning. And a lot of corporations are right-leaning. But some hollywood agencies and 'whatnot' are owned by major corporations, which confuses me. I see a contradiction somewhere.

Good one Joe. I love EOTS

I wonder how Arnold deals with it? He's a conservative making movies like TOTAL RECALL?

Where he gets brainwashed into being a liberal and ends up liking it better.

TV has become really bad.

Take a look at any sitcom (including Simpsons I'm sorry to say).

Woman (wife) - Strong, independent, loving mother, has a full time job, manages to maintain the whole house too, is the one who has to clean up the husbands messes.

Man (husband) - bumbling ass, has a job, loves sports, drinks lots of beer, is fat/ugly/socially inept or all of the above, is lazy and tries to get out of everything, continually screws things up.


What a damn joke. They should make a show with a good looking guy who married a good looking girl who got fat. She is subpar in the intellegence area and can't cook.

That'd be a nice change of pace.

Sorry for being off topic, but I wanted to throw my two cents in on the TV/hollywood wrongful portail of things.