Elephant Paints Self Portrait

Couple things about the video:

I didn't notice any trainer guiding the elephant while the elephant was painting.

I never saw where or how the elephant re-dipped its brush for ink...
I would have especially liked to have seen that at the end when it started using color..

If this is a self-portrait I find it quite amusing that the flower was as big as it was. It was as big as an elephant head! I wonder what kind of symbology the elephant was trying to express with that!

Even if the elephant was trained, that doesn't necessarily take away the awe-factor. As another member point out: you have to be smart enough to follow instructions. This isn't some simple skinner-box operant conditioning here! An elephant walking while holding a colorful flower! I couldn't even draw that. I would have to be trained by the elephant trainer first!

[edit on 023030p://5u22 by Lucid Lunacy]

W@W!!
That was OUTSTANDING!!!!

It was so cool it made me cry for the beauty in the eyes of the elephant!!
The flower was SO pretty my 15 yr old son can't paint a flower that pretty.......

Stars and flags Stars and flags...........W@W




Ya sure, I to wondered who was re dipping the paint brush and who decided the colors ect....but on the whole that DID NOT really matter as this was amazing and touched my soul very deeply.
I am bowled over!!
Really KEWL post!!! Thanks so much for sharing that!!

[edit on 5-4-2008 by theRiverGoddess]

Very cool. even if trained it's impressive, but obviously if it's painting what it wants rather than what it's been taught to paint it's a lot more fascinating. I noticed another painting that was held up by that guy that kept walking back and forth holding paintings in his hands in the background of the video, it was a bunch of flowers. So they don't all paint the same thing, or can at least paint more than one thing.

Elephants are extraordinary creatures no doubt, but we don't need these kind of cheap tricks to prove that. Listening to the oos & ahh's during that video was enough for me to see this a cheap commercialization of the elephants. Disgusting even if they weren't tortured to do that.

If you want to learn about elephants go see or rent Africa's Elephant Kingdom.

As far I'm concerned PETA is a terrorist organization and I would have never believed it if I hadn't had personal experience with them. They were close to where I lived with a former g/f and we used to contribute to them until we found out what they are really about.

The short version. Some lonely old neighbor lady was feeding, possums, rats, raccoons, feral cats and what ever else would show up on her back porch. The animals would stray over to our yard and it became dangerous for the kids to play in the yard because of the raccoons in our urban area of 5-10k sqft lots.

Our only solution was to trap them with a non-lethal cage. After capturing the first raccoon my g/f sent me to PETA down the street thinking they would have a good idea what to do with it - as the city animal control suggested we drown it by dunking the cage in a water filled garbage can. Killing them was not an option as my g/f was a collector of stay animals (including myself).

PETA's solution was too keep the kids inside the house & let the animals infest our neighborhood with the help of the old lady. I asked them what to do with the raccoon and they said if I gave it to them they don't have time to relocate it and they would kill it. Then they lectured my g/f child because he found a brochure on their counter with a picture of a cat that looked like his.

He said "hey that looks like (insert cat's name)" and then the PETA employee sneered at both of us and told him that he shouldn't have a cat as a pet and told him cats are bad because they're not natural to the area & kill all the birds, then instructed us to de-claw the cat and don't let it outside and the 10 year old kid went home upset.

Anyway I didn't want to spit up the animal families so I took all the coons I caught to the same place out in the wilderness where they could run for miles without human interference. Against the PETA's employees recommendation that I kill them or live with them as taking them to the wild would introduce urban disease to the wilderness if I let them go there. All the possums I dropped off in a few hundred acre park. The cats were fixed & returned so the old lady still had a few friends.

Needless to say neither I nor my ex ever gave another dime to PETA and yes the rogue groups within PETA are ELF who have done plenty of arsons in my area as well as let out thousands of animals who were unable to survive in the wild thus they starved and died.

PETA are classic WOLVES in (artificial)sheeps clothing.




[edit on 5-4-2008 by verylowfrequency]

reply to post by verylowfrequency


You described an employee. You do realize the paramount difference between some random PETA employee and the organization itself right?

Just like any company or organization it has normal people employed in it. Chances are when you trickle down the hierarchy, and the pay-scale, you're bound to incounter some douche-bag. I think it's a stretch to decide "PETA is a terrorist organization" based on something like that...

Regardless, even if they are, doesn't change what they are allegedly trying to convey; which is the horribly inhumane things done to animals and the health risks associated with the agricultural machine, factory farming.

reply to post by Lucid Lunacy


Yes, I know what they're trying to convey and somewhere in the middle I agree with them, however their tactics are a bit too extreme for me

As one who enjoys riding my bike & hiking in the outdoors I'm aware of the stench and polluting runoff coming from these farms in to our pristine rivers which are the blood of the earth. I'm all for cleaning up our earth destructive methods, but we can make little changes with each generation, so as not to destroy peoples livelihoods in the process.

Therefore I would not have a problem with getting rid of factory farms, however I still enjoy having many different varieties of food beyond plants. There has to be a balance not an either or.

Originally posted by verylowfrequency

Therefore I would not have a problem with getting rid of factory farms, however I still enjoy having many different varieties of food beyond plants. There has to be a balance not an either or.

1. In that case just buy free-range organic meat. Thus not contributing to Factory Farming.

2. It indeed can be either/or. I am very healthy and an active athlete, and I have been vegetarian for 6 years now

Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy

2. It indeed can be either/or. I am very healthy and an active athlete, and I have been vegetarian for 6 years now

Yes, you have that option today in many places mostly because there is enough variety of foods shipped into our stores from around the world. I believe without modern technology of indoor growing, hydroponics and the ability to ship anything anywhere being a vegetarian would be more difficult or at least not as enjoyable.

However, I enjoy eating meat and making an equally enjoying meal out of vegetarian products takes more effort and is a learning process that many of us are not willing to make the time & effort to change at this point. Sometimes it can be as easy as replacing chicken with walnuts, but often it is more difficult than that as recipes we grew up learning include milk, cream, cheese etc. I know there are substitutes, but like I said its a learning process and one most of us don't want to jump into.

I guess what's most important is that we decide for ourselves. If education leads us that way in time, so shall it be - but let it happen don't force it.

I'd discuss further, but I'm taking this thread off track enough.





[edit on 5-4-2008 by verylowfrequency]

Originally posted by verylowfrequency

Yes, you have that option today in many places mostly because there is enough variety of foods shipped into our stores from around the world.

Hey don't forget about the option of starting your own garden! Depending on the size it may or may not replace the need to shop, but it always helps suppliment!

I believe without modern technology of indoor growing, hydroponics and the ability to ship anything anywhere being a vegetarian would be more difficult or at least not as enjoyable.

I have a rather thriving outside garden, and indoor plants in pots, and it's all organic and soil-based But yeah, the modern commercialized world doesn't help. Since we are not communistic/socialistic, we depend on the commercialistic way of food distributions.

Also, although I find the diet highly enjoyable, that is not my main reason for doing it. I do it first for moral and ethical motives, and second for personal health. And third because I like the taste more.

However, I enjoy eating meat

That's understandable. Eating free-range organic meat is a win/win situation for you, your family and friends, and for the animals too though. I hope all meat-eaters can go that route soon so they at least put end to Factory Farming. FF really is bad for both parties envolved..

and making an equally enjoying meal out of vegetarian products takes more effort and is a learning process that many of us are not willing to make the time & effort to change at this point.

Yeah, just like anything new, there is a learning curve. I did it for moral and ethical reasons, which for me, outweighed the 'suckness' factor of having to learn new things.

Once you learn it though, it's no more difficult.

I guess what's most important is that we decide for ourselves. If education leads us that way in time, so shall it be - but let it happen don't force it.

I think you're over-emphasisng the word 'force' here. It's not like PETA is literally knocking on your door trying to convert you to a veggie-lifestyle. And if they do, I wouldn't agree to that.

But you run on a slipperly slope here, people can't decide for themselves if they never know about the other position, if they never know what is really going on 'behind the scenes' of the meat industry. Right? With out Denying Ignorance people can't really decide for themselves. People need to be educated on the matter from both perspectives first. Hence organizations like PETA making that information public domain.

I'd discuss further, but I'm taking this thread off track enough.

Oops. read that a little late...


[edit on 053030p://5u13 by Lucid Lunacy]

Originally posted by ThePiemaker
So they don't all paint the same thing, or can at least paint more than one thing.

Not only that but it was painting from MEMORY... no one was holding something to copy... so trained or not... at least we know what they say about an elephant never forgetting is true...

Also what impressed me is the fact that it could retrace the lines... and recognized that the line did not have enough paint the first time and it added shading below the belly

remarkable feat

reply to post by zorgon


Yes, the are remarkable creatures. As I said in my first post before the PETA sidetrack. Go see (preview) Elephant Kingdom and you will be amazed at the family relationships.



[edit on 6-4-2008 by verylowfrequency]

That was amazing! Thanks for posting this, I've never seen anything like that before.

reply to post by jaamaan


Just simply amazing!! I have always known that humans have greatly underestimated the intelligence of all animals. This is the smoking gun.

I have recently been getting interested in plants. I feel plants have consciousness as well.
Starred and flagged!




[edit on 12-4-2008 by MrsEsterhouse]

Originally posted by MrsEsterhouse
reply to post by jaamaan

 

Just simply amazing!! I have always known that humans have greatly underestimated the intelligence of all animals. This is the smoking gun.

I have recently been getting interested in plants. I feel plants have consciousness as well.
Starred and flagged!

[edit on 12-4-2008 by MrsEsterhouse]

Maybe have a look here than.

Secret Life of Plants
www.abovetopsecret.com...'

Did you know that plants have emotions ?
They can cry, be happy and even get drunk and hung over.

reply to post by jaamaan



Thanks for the link!

I have to make one point here about artistic ability, elephants or not. Think about drawing, as a human. We have to be taught, or trained first before we are able to do much more than scribble. We then mimic what we learned through memory. Finally we develop interpretive skills to create unique works.

This elephant is in the stages of mimicking what was learned through use of memory. There are visible signs that it may even be interpreting the positions of the legs, the shading of the belly, the density of the outline, shading of the flower and placement of the leaves.

Is that much different than a human being's ability given similar training?

There was a study that I saw once about the intelligence of chimpanzees. It showed that there is a limit to the cognitive capabilities when it comes to balancing objects and determining basic physics (heavy ball vs. light ball). Anyway, the chimps have been studied for decades and we seem to understand their limitations. I would like to see similar experiments performed with these elephants. My vote is that they will far surpass our expectations in intelligence.

[edit on 12-4-2008 by AnnunakiX]

Originally posted by AnnunakiX
Is that much different than a human being's ability given similar training?

Okay...so if it is the same.

Wouldn't that mean its equally impressive?

So the elephant was trained. Artists are as well. So the elephant used memory. Artists don't?

What you're implying is that the element of "sentience" isn't present and that it is strictly operant conditioning? I personally don't feel that's the case, I believe elephants are sentient. Either way, this was a very impressive video.

[edit on 093030p://12u15 by Lucid Lunacy]

Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy

Originally posted by AnnunakiX
Is that much different than a human being's ability given similar training?

Okay...so if it is the same.

Wouldn't that mean its equally impressive?

So the elephant was trained. Artists are as well. So the elephant used memory. Artists don't?

What you're implying is that the element of "sentience" isn't present and that it is strictly operant conditioning? I personally don't feel that's the case, I believe elephants are sentient. Either way, this was a very impressive video.

[edit on 093030p://12u15 by Lucid Lunacy]

On the contrary. I feel that the similarities are leading toward the possibility of sentience. I guess I didn't make that as clear as I thought I did.

Yes, this is truly amazing at face value and is quite worthy of further study.

Elephants are one of the world's most intelligent animals. With a mass just over 5kg, elephant brains are larger than those of any other land animal, and although the largest whales have body masses twentyfold those of a typical elephant, whale brains are barely twice the mass of an elephant's brain. A wide variety of behaviors, including those associated with grief, learning, allomothering, mimicry, art, play, a sense of humor, altruism, use of tools, compassion, self-awareness, memory and possibly language[1] all point to a highly intelligent species that are thought to be equal with cetaceans[2][3] and primates

-

Elephants show a remarkable ability to use tools, despite having no hands. Instead, they use their trunk like an arm. Elephants have been observed digging holes to drink water and then ripping bark from a tree, chewing it into the shape of a ball, filling in the hole and covering over it with sand to avoid evaporation. The elephant later went back to this spot for a drink. They also often use branches to swat flies or scratch themselves[29]. Elephants have also been known to drop very large rocks onto an electric fence to either ruin the fence or cut off the electricity


en.wikipedia.org...

Elephantine Intelligence
Craig Holdrege

Many young elephants develop the naughty habit of plugging up the wooden bell they wear around their necks with good stodgy mud or clay so that the clappers cannot ring, in order to steal silently into a grove of cultivated bananas at night. There they will have a whale of a time quietly stuffing, eating not only the bunches of bananas but the leaves and indeed the whole tree as well, and they will do this just beside the hut occupied by the owner of the grove, without waking him or any of his family.
www.natureinstitute.org...