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Elephant Paints Self Portrait

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posted on Apr, 1 2008 @ 09:31 AM
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Originally posted by ignorant_ape
it is very real - but the skeptic in me asks is it really a SELF portrait ?

or just [ i mean no slur by using ` just ] an elephant painting an elephant ?

i canot see any ` distiguishing features ` that make it a self portrait

its like looking at pictures of " mummy and daddy " painted by kindergarten puplis , using the pictures thier children painted - could you pick the right parets out of a line up ????


I doubt it's a self-portrait. For one, they would need to be given mirrors to see themselves with in full. They would need to see themselves to really paint a self-portrait.

Either entirely trained, or they are just independantly making basic conceptual drawings similar to those you usually see in cave painting from primitive man.

The elephant may or may not even realize that what it is drawing is a pictogram of itself. If it has just been trained to draw a series of lines by a human trainer, it has no real conceptual idea of waht the picture means.

With enough time, you could train a group of monkies to put a spaceship together, but damned if they know what it's for or how to use it.

I'm not saying it isn't interesting or fascinating, but I think people may be giving these animals more credit than is really warranted. All elephants certainly aren't evolving into artists or anything like that.

If an elephant could convey the idea of a lion attacking a group of elephants in a picture, independant and without any human training, then I would be impressed.

For now, elephants get the #4 spot in my list of most intelligent animals

1. Chimp
2. Dolphin
3. Squid
4. Elephant
5. Birds

[edit on 4/1/2008 by Yarcofin]




posted on Apr, 1 2008 @ 09:52 AM
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Originally posted by ignorant_ape
it is very real - but the skeptic in me asks is it really a SELF portrait ?

or just [ i mean no slur by using ` just ] an elephant painting an elephant ?



If you look at this video page, i think you can see the teacher showing the elephant what to do.
Quite revealing i think.

www.elephantart.com...



posted on Apr, 1 2008 @ 10:36 AM
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As nice as it is to see an elephant do this, it is just another sad example of how we exploit animals for the sake of our own amusement.


I'm hoping that the elephant did not suffer much while it was being trained to do this.



posted on Apr, 1 2008 @ 11:18 AM
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Originally posted by jaamaan


“ Elephant Art” began in 1998 out of the artists’ interest in Thai elephants and their handlers, or mahouts. These elephants had been used in forestry but were no longer needed due to a 1990 ban on deforestation. After travelling to Thailand and visiting various camps where these elephants were kept, Komar and Melamid chose to begin their project at the Lampang camp, where they found elephants living in relatively good conditions, well cared for by their mahouts.

www.elephantart.com...


Not all elephants seem to get bad treatment.


My guess is- these abused elephants who have been tortured into painting have been "rescued" and may have found a caring community of art lovers- where they are no longer being abused. However- elephants never forget and now they paint because they remember what will happen if they do not.

These marvelous creatures were abused into painting. End of story.

PLEASE DO NOT SUPPORT THIS ANIMAL ABUSE- THERE IS NOTHING MIRACULOUS ABOUT IT. IF SOMEONE KEPT HITTING YOU ON YOUR FEET AND YOUR FOREHEAD FOR YEARS I AM SURE YOU WOULD EVENTUALLY PAINT LIKE REMBRANDT.

For the love of all animals great and small- close this thread and ask people not be so amazed- there is nothing amazing about abuse.

EDITED: I will not abandon an abused animal.

Sorry for the CAPS- I just didn't want anyone to miss it.

[edit on 1-4-2008 by dk3000]



posted on Apr, 1 2008 @ 11:20 AM
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Originally posted by jaamaan

Not all elephants seem to get bad treatment.


Peta has a habit of showing the worst... they recently ran a billboard in Vegas with Colonel Sanders with a sick grin hatchet in hand and a bloodied apron chasing chickens.. and another ad claimed feeding hamburgers to your kids was child abuse...

:shk:

not saying animal abuse doesn't happen, but I wouldn't take peta's word for anything



posted on Apr, 1 2008 @ 11:28 AM
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WHAT! that looks nothing like an elephant! And you call that a flower PFFFT.....

No seriously he was trained really well to do that if he is intelligent its only that hes intelligent enough to follow orders.. If not why does he not paint anything else? cuz hes a one trick pony ahhh you know what i mean he was taught to only paint elephants with flower on their trunk...



posted on Apr, 1 2008 @ 11:32 AM
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reply to post by Yarcofin
 


Yarcofin, where did you rank humans on your list of intelligent animals?


I'd put us somewhere near the bottom....



posted on Apr, 1 2008 @ 11:33 AM
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I just want to say:

Thanks for making me feel retarded. It brought back memories of the last time I played pictionary and had to draw an elephant... everyone thought it was a cat.

Son of a bee sting.



posted on Apr, 1 2008 @ 11:37 AM
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reply to post by Sublime620
 


Sorry for a one-line post, but I just had to say, to Sublime...thank you, thank you very much, for making me laugh out loud!

WW



posted on Apr, 1 2008 @ 01:27 PM
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reply to post by dk3000
 


I only read the one story I couldn't bear to watch the peta video. I am horrified at the abuse. Disgusting people who would do that. I wouldn't even call them people in my book so I wouldn't feel any remorse inflicting the same trauma to them as they do to the elephants.



posted on Apr, 1 2008 @ 01:34 PM
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I had a calendar a couple years back with art from, I believe, this same group of elephants. Although they painted some very interesting abstract work, some of which I thought resembled elephants, there was nothing like this! As far as training the elephant goes.....if I remember correctly the only thing the trainers did was pick the colors for the elephants. They were left to come up with designs on their own, it's possible this policy may have changed. Also it should be noted that the individual elephants did seem to exhibit their own personal style.



posted on Apr, 1 2008 @ 04:32 PM
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Originally posted by merryxmas
reply to post by dk3000
 


I only read the one story I couldn't bear to watch the peta video. I am horrified at the abuse. Disgusting people who would do that. I wouldn't even call them people in my book so I wouldn't feel any remorse inflicting the same trauma to them as they do to the elephants.


I came back to this thread to see how people were responding and I knew a peta-whacker would show up. I subscribe to a paid search engine which provides more comprehensive searches than a google search. I was hoping someone would post another which is why I put on a PETA google link.

Sadly with few exceptions at this point- it has transmogrified into cruel jokes and abuse spamming. I do hope that the good members of ATS will understand and keep this in mind when reading future posts and threads created by these members.

PS- Peta is all to happy to provide links to points of origin which brought them the awareness to this tragedy. The lazy man's research arguments above trying to keep the "miracle of artistic elephants alive" rather than cruel deceptive activity that it is will probably not take that leap into the truth because they are NOT capable of handling it.

Therefore it is painfully clear that cheap pot shots will ensure there will always be elephant art on the market.


Peta will tell you that they did not create the video and had nothing to do with it other posting it on their website. The video was made locally by an inside whistleblower. This whistle blower did not send it to Peta (they will also tell you this). An animal lover sent it in who happened on it. Peta told me that their research showed that the video was given to a tourist after it was leaked to government and local officials to create an awareness of the situation.

Some of these paintings have been sold in excess of $50,000.00 and some as low as a few hundred or lithographs and photos which have made the "calendar" market. This means they will end up on lunch boxes and all kinds of places.

[edit on 1-4-2008 by dk3000]



posted on Apr, 1 2008 @ 05:30 PM
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reply to post by dk3000
 


Man that is mostly sad news, you bursted my bubble.

Maybe i can cheer you up with this video than.




posted on Apr, 1 2008 @ 05:54 PM
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reply to post by dk3000
 



Here is a video link of me and my dog who has learned to say "I love you, forever" b. Boris was not beaten or manipulated in any way- after two years of my love it just happened:


Ah! Love the video of you and your pooch!

What man will do for a dog and pony show! (Elephants)

I just read where the story of the "white elephant being in the room & no one notices," came from. In centuries past or years past, a gift of a white elephant was considered a great thing until the new owner would find out that the elephant required a great deal of food and care. The one receiving the gift would think that they were being honored, but as it turned out, it was a gift from someone who did not like the person they were bestowing the elephant to. So it became a white elephant because it was a sort of a curse or insult in the long run!



posted on Apr, 1 2008 @ 06:30 PM
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reply to post by jaamaan
 


I did not try to burst your bubble and I am not in an unhappy place. I do appreciate your sentiments, though.




posted on Apr, 2 2008 @ 01:16 AM
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Originally posted by dk3000 I knew a peta-whacker would show up.


peta-whacker... I wonder if that is censor circumvention?


Lets see now.... back in Toronto many years back a group of Peta's got it in their head that the wolves in the zoo needed to be free... (never mind that at the time there still was a bounty on wolves.... and that Toronto Zoo has one of the best natural habitat type of environments...

So these smart little activists thought it would be really cool for the wolves to release them... (the Zoo backs onto a large ravine, but its still in the city)

They did this with the result that the wolves, who were bred at the zoo and never were wild... went crazy and had to be shot by the OPP

Yup those wolves are sure free now...
Good thinking there


How PETA 'helps' animals in North Carolina

A PETA executive's lame response to my earlier post (see comments) led me to this deceptive site about how they claim to help animals in North Carolina.

From the ongoing trial of two PETA employees on animal-cruelty charges, we know how they really operate:

1. Approach an animal shelter and lie about how you want to adopt a dog or cat.

2. Load the animal in your van and give it the needle.

3. Dump the carcass in a supermarket Dumpster. Let someone else worry about the final disposal problem and paying the bill.

4. Repeat thousands of times.

5. Start another fund-raising campaign.

Lying to the underpaid and overworked shelter employees is acceptable, because PETA people are morally superior to the rest of us. Just ask them.

If you care about what happens to domestic animals, instead of giving money to PETA, support your local humane society or animal shelter. Don't give money to big national groups like PETA or the Humane Society of the United States, which spend most of what they collect on still more fundraising and lobbying--and very little on actual animals.


natureblog.blogspot.com...


Question asked in another forum...


Where does PETA get the blood to throw on people donning fur?



Well the KFC ads with the "Bloody Ax" didn't work, so now they are trying nude 'chicks'


PETA has launched another anti-KFC ad and this one features Australian model Sarah Jane posing nude. Oh come on. What were you thinking? Of course all her parts you really want to see are covered. This is advertising, not porn, though there doesn't seem to be much difference these days. Anyway, Tian pointed out it was odd the ad is predominantly written in Chinese and wondered whether it eluded to the popularity of KFC in China.


www.adrants.com...

Nude Alicia Silverstone PETA Ad Banned in Texas
www.associatedcontent.com...

Ban BEEF in TEXAS???




Therefore it is painfully clear that cheap pot shots will ensure there will always be elephant art on the market.


Cheap potshots?
How about the TRUTH???

The Naked Truth About PeTa



Peta Kills Animals



Must see.... but contains strong language...
Bull****t-Peta Penn and Teller
l9ijLulwUTY

If you consider this report 'cheap potshots' then I must wonder about your motives...

PETA 's animal rights campaigns include ending fur and leather use meat and dairy consumption fishing hunting trapping factory farming circuses...

www.ingridnewkirk.com...

PETA is a terrorist organization nothing more... and do more to harm the very cause they claim to support...



I subscribe to a paid search engine which provides more comprehensive searches than a google search.


I have access to .gov and .mil search engines and many others so what's your point? Are you saying YOUR search engine gives you a differnt 'truth' than google




The lazy man's research arguments above trying to keep the "miracle of artistic elephants alive" rather than cruel deceptive activity that it is will probably not take that leap into the truth because they are NOT capable of handling it.


Cruelty to animals is wrong and those doing it should suffer the consequences in a court of law... In my opinion PETA members should be on the top ten wanted list of that category



Some of these paintings have been sold in excess of $50,000.00 and some as low as a few hundred or lithographs and photos which have made the "calendar" market. This means they will end up on lunch boxes and all kinds of places.


You still have to prove that those elephants in the OP video are abused into this... not just that SOME may be... and has anyone yet asked the elephants... they might actually ENJOY painting?

And as a side note... I seem to recall humans getting the strap and the cane to 'correct our learning' in those institutions some called schools... and NOW look at the discipline level since they stopped



posted on Apr, 2 2008 @ 05:52 AM
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reply to post by zorgon
 


Mmm yes, this seems to be a difficould subject.
For one, like you stated, i have not seem any proff that the elephants in the OP video where abused.
There seems to be a nice and relaxed atmosphere in the art class.

Of course there must be lost of elephant abuse going on in the world as shown in this topic.
But there is a lot of abuse in the world in general.
That doesnt make everything going bad.
Just some things.

Still i am glad someone painted the other side of the picture and made me think of the whole thing twice.
The idea of elephant sweatshops is realy dark but must exist to.

But owning pets is not always a very natural way eighter.
How many hours a day does an average house dog go out the house ?
Not many compared to its natural way of living.
Is that not cruel to the animal in question ?
Hell most pets are even snippet and lose their ability to multiply themselves, how nice is that ?

Just as an example of the other side of the coin.



posted on Apr, 5 2008 @ 12:55 AM
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Originally posted by zorgon
Peta has a habit of showing the worst... they recently ran a billboard in Vegas with Colonel Sanders with a sick grin hatchet in hand and a bloodied apron chasing chickens..


Seriously though, what could they really show that wasn't? When it comes to Factory Farming and SlaughterHouses? I am trying to be objective here, but the scenario you just mentioned, although rather theatrical perhaps, ultimately is rather accurate...

I think they are just trying to deny ignorance myself
Maybe PETA is a bunch of dorks, I dunno. Doesn't change the horrible travesty that is factory farming.


and another ad claimed feeding hamburgers to your kids was child abuse...


That's because it is.

Unless we are talking about organic/free range backyard hamburgers, then you are looking at grade D meat. That is a higher (worse) grade then most of the meat put in dog food. They have an absurd amount of calories, perfect for America's # one position in child obesity. And these things are loaded with the worst kinds of fats. This is very detrimental to the childs health.

How do you define child abuse?


not saying animal abuse doesn't happen


Hopefully not. Because it does, everyday, and on a commerical scale.


but I wouldn't take peta's word for anything


Anything? Nothing they have said?..

You don't really have to though, as there are countless resources pointing towards the same information Peta espouses, that you can cross-reference for consistencies.

Not to mention you can take a few trips to different factory farms and slaughterhouses to see much of it yourself if you can't take peoples words, or videos, as proof
I have, and it made my soul cry


[edit on 023030p://5u51 by Lucid Lunacy]



posted on Apr, 5 2008 @ 01:06 AM
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Originally posted by liquidsmoke206
I had a calendar a couple years back with art from, I believe, this same group of elephants.


Hey can you scan, upload, and share some of that calendar art here in this thread? If you still have em around that is. Would be great


[edit on 023030p://5u07 by Lucid Lunacy]



posted on Apr, 5 2008 @ 01:20 AM
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Originally posted by dk3000

These marvelous creatures were abused into painting. End of story.

For the love of all animals great and small- close this thread and ask people not be so amazed- there is nothing amazing about abuse.



I share your sentiments but you're suggesting something fatal here.

By suggesting this thread be closed you're really just closing an opportunity for someone to come into this thread and read about how some elephants are abused to create art, and other things.

What if they saw this video on YouTube alone? They probably wouldn't infer from watching it that there was 'more to the story'. That's what ATS is for, and what denying ignorance is about. If the thread is closed, so is the opportunity for someone to learn about elephant abuse. Hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil, is not going to facilitate change. Denying ignorance is the first step.

**Edited: to beta test the use of color in my posts lol**

[edit on 013030p://5u15 by Lucid Lunacy]



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