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Police arrest anti-war protester, 80, at mall.

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posted on Apr, 2 2008 @ 03:21 PM
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Another point I will attempt to make because I referred to an "unrelated" incident involving the tasering of an 11 year old girl...Remember? I know at least a few of you who do!

Calling in the cops or giving school security guards police weapons clearly shows that there is an increasing alarm to the context and subtext of this entire thread.

We are in an insane "police state" where written laws and processes no longer really apply. We are in arrest or tase now- explain later.

More to the point: Shoot now- cover your butts later by wringing written laws and choking people to death with bureaucratic BS.

Back to the girl. She has been a big problem for several years- uncontrollable now- but at least three years. Nothing was done so- shoot now, cover it later. Same diff.

I am sure we can argue how to make this right or better- meanwhile people are dying.....hellooooooo?

It was mentioned in the other thread covering the girl- bring back the good old fashioned "paddle". Oh yes, that works so well as violence often does when you cannot think of anything else.

I used to get the crap kicked out of me everyday from this ahole macho jock. I tried joining in sports and did fair pretty well. It was not enough. The beatings continued for two years- every day no matter what I tried. Different routes home- letting authorities knows (parents/teachers/admin) nothing worked. I was the target of Gary's rage and/or whatever.

One day while fixing my bicycle chain- the group surrounded me. The chants began as well as the hate fags speech (I had feathered hair!) and the tauntings for a fight ensued. I made a huge mistake. I could not "take" Gary on as he was bigger and tougher and my worthless parents did not teach me out to protect myself. My only defense that ever worked (there were days I escaped by fleeing) was cut off because I was surrounded and on the ground with ahole towering over me.

I felt the kick to my stomach and something snapped. I beat the hell out of him with the bicycle chain swinging it wildly. His face was cut to ribbons and he has scars to this day (I am in touch with someone who still knows the piece of crap).

My point? Nothing happened to Gary and he became the pity martyr American hero. While I was sent to juvenile hall for being crazy.

Kids are cruel and sadistic because their parents are. Their parents are because they do not have the skills to adjust to a cruel and sadistic world which does not stimulate the opposite action/reaction to make the necessary changes for the child to learn something to better fit into society and protect oneself properly.

The police do NOT have this skill either so to call them in to deal with an 80-year old man who refuses to turn his t-shirt inside out and conform is also INSANE! Giving a rent-a-cop disguised as a school security officer is INSANE.

I have always regretted that my only recourse in that situation was violent insanity- but I was not born that way. Neither was the little girl. The old man in question is making the same basic statement as I am trying to make with a few exception we can all learn from:

He made the same statement while eating lunch and conversing with his wife. If he can accomplish something so simple while performing other tasks- maybe an 80 year old fart has something to offer beside the inside of a jail cell.

The only thing the police will learn is now they have to keep a stock of fresh cans of "ensure" next to all those crappy frozen burritos and apples for the inmates.

Its okay though- cause the police don't have to worry about any heavy lifting because that is relegated back to the inmates....errr trustees! Isn't it boys!

Kinda like the sondercommando (Jewish prisoners/trustees running/organizing the labor in concentration camps) The sondercommando also put the dead bodies into the ovens- then scraped out the ashes to be buried. Luckily these sonndercommandos wrote the accounts of the activities in the hopes that one day they would be dug up and discovered.

This may think sounds like a stretch- but its not as big a stretch as you think because if you take out all the little BS bureaucratic points it equals the same thing.

The truth only hurts if once it is revealed nothing still gets done.

If the police on here are so morally correct- then throw your uniform in your superiors face and say I refuse to hide behind ridiculously confusing laws which contradict and confuse people- or go taz kids who have run out of options.

You had better hurry before those same kids find their daddies gun and blow a hole in your head before your stun-gun recharges!




[edit on 2-4-2008 by dk3000]




posted on Apr, 2 2008 @ 06:28 PM
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reply to post by dk3000
 


The fact that you turned this into a boo hoo look at me and my life and your bias against police is very very sad. And even worse is people are giving you stars for your rants. Says alot about some members of ATS when you reward people who go WAY off topic, stereotype, throw false alligations, use MANY assumptions and then use their own problems to justify the means....


None of us ever said we were glad the old guy got arrested etc....even I said some laws are stupid and I CHOOSE not to enforce them...but your idea of YOU SHOULD ALL QUIT proves your not open minded, you have no common sense and your ALWAYS will make yourself out to be a victim no matter what. You will use ANY tactic you can muster to keep avoiding facts and spin the truth.

I agree with you on two things....some of the laws should be overhauled and government should be reevaluted....other then those two things you have turned this into a PERSONAL issue in which you have made it obvious you have many....so either get back on topic or start a thread to whine in please.

[edit on 4/2/2008 by rcwj75]



posted on Apr, 2 2008 @ 06:51 PM
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reply to post by rcwj75
 


First of all my having the guts to let people know my history has nothing to with Boo-Hooing. Its about being man and being unafraid to show the worst parts of my life- rather hiding behind a badge pretending to be so much better and stronger and more moral.

Second, I speak from my experiences and they are used only to let people know where I draw my conclusions from- which is my experience. This takes a lot of guts and courage to tell the truth no matter how criminal, pathetic or heroic and honorable it may or may not appear to someone. I bring it back to me so people know that I do my own thinking and based on my own experiences I am able to apply it appropriately.

Third, I do not give a hoot about stars or flags because I don't go back and look at past posts unless someone rants at me about something they forgot to quote.

Probably if you really gave a real thought you would realize that for every star I get- I get another boo-hooer like you who will never read a post of mine because a narrow-minded view would categorize history read as an incredible drunken homo with too heavy a cross to bear so he's gonna take it out on the whole world via this thread.

It takes courage to put yourself out there and relate. Yet any child can pull a trigger. Have a Mod come in and review this thread in particular my posts- and if they find I am intentionally de-railing or trolling to let me know.

Please bear in mind that I did not provoke an argument- this all started by questions directed to my comments. I do not go looking for fights. I back myself with my history and viewpoint on it.

I look for headlines which cause me concern- I express my views just like anyone else. I defend my opinion on my own merit and action. If I had the ability to disable stars on all my posts/threads I would do that in a heartbeat because it would encourage people to bond more effectively and more lasting by requiring more effort in communication than a little blue star.

It is clear that in my posts I have never encouraged anyone to back me up or come to aid in my defense.

And suggesting me to start my own crying whiny thread- Well that's just sweet. Very nice, very mature. I appreciate- however I must decline. Or maybe you should go ask the OP. I'll wait here while you get permission..............



Lets not forget I raised over $800,000 for the police- are you really reading my posts???????????

[edit on 2-4-2008 by dk3000]



posted on Apr, 2 2008 @ 07:08 PM
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Originally posted by dk3000
maybe you should go ask the OP. I'll wait here while you get permission..............


I never left the OP unlike some who turned a 1st Amendment vs Trespassing on Private Property issue into a hate the police, police this police that thread. You lost sight of it WAY back and made it into something it is not. There is NOOOO need for your personal stories unless you were silenced when trying to use the 1st amendment...that is the ONLY relevant story that should be said here.

You broadcast your "experiances" so you can justify ranting about police and the government...no other reason. You didn't give one example of not being allowed to use your free speech rights...instead you went off first about how it was a bad arrest and it was a "police state" issue even though a law WAS broken, then just decided to argue a COMPLETELY different thread about the out of control 11 year old being tased and tied in your, whatever. to again bash the system. NOTHING about private property, NOTHING about the 1st amendment, and NOTHING about trespassing?

You have not debated the issue at hand AT ALL...you instead took your PERSONAL views about the system and those of us working for it and went hunting for things to scream about. When your ready to debate the thread and issues of the thread let me know.....actually don't...I have made it VERY clear as to what, why and how this all went down...the debate my friend is cut and dry...meaning, its over!

As to your "permission" statement...do you even know what your talking about when you type?

EDIT TO ADD: What did you do to raise that much money for the same people you talk down about? I know you said you raised money but how? U2U me

[edit on 4/2/2008 by rcwj75]



posted on Apr, 2 2008 @ 07:33 PM
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reply to post by rcwj75
 


WOW,you two are going at it like a presidential debate(I wish they were this good)I hope I didnt get this started by asking for more infor on the DUI.DK,your really getting fired up about all this-did me standing up to that mental thread get your emotions going?Its good we need more debates like this on ATS-as long as they stay (somewhat)civilized.

Also RCW:I am one who starred some of DK's post,not because I like "bashing"the police,but because I liked his responses,he had emotion in them,and IMO overall took all the aspects of a good post and put them together-thats what the stars are for,and also I agree with him-but I am not saying kill the police or they all have to quit,I dont think he is either,I just tink(like you do)changes need to be made SOON.Another reason I starred his post are because they were excellent rebutles(and ATS really s a debate forum rather people like it or not-its just not a "offcial"debate forum)I say they were excellent because they got you to rspond with more emoation and aggression with each and every post.Thats my opinion anyways.



posted on Apr, 2 2008 @ 07:33 PM
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Originally posted by rcwj75

Originally posted by dk3000
maybe you should go ask the OP. I'll wait here while you get permission..............


I never left the OP unlike some who turned a 1st Amendment vs Trespassing on Private Property issue into a hate the police, police this police that thread. You lost sight of it WAY back and made it into something it is not. There is NOOOO need for your personal stories unless you were silenced when trying to use the 1st amendment...that is the ONLY relevant story that should be said here.


EDIT TO ADD: What did you do to raise that much money for the same people you talk down about? I know you said you raised money but how? U2U me

[edit on 4/2/2008 by rcwj75]


The old guy was not trespassing He was having lunch with his wife and someone asked him to turn his shirt inside out or leave...Can this be any clearer?

How did I raise money- Its in my post. Clear as day. Clearly you didn't read it.

FYI- malls are for the public built on private property. That's the issue that is killing the rights of people and idiots like you who do not understand this. Arrest and tase- arrest and tase. Perhaps if you could actually read- you might learn the word "holster".

Again please holster your invitations for me to leave. You have no power here- maybe now you will understand what its like for the rest of us!

One can hope
Until then...

Oh, please don't tase me bro!


PS- jkrog08, you did NOT get me started or in trouble with your questions regarding my person experience with the police. They were actually smart questions and brave questions. I decided to answer them because my comments were being tossed back at me as something other than what they were. I could have ignored them. I thought that more people who followed might actually begin to put their own experiences towards the story itself rather than running around making a moral judgment out of "group think" land!

I have been typing calm as a kitten. I can write about my emotions to indicate whatever I wish to express. If I were the OP I would probably be very happy with the conversations! You don't have to explain why you gave a star. Give one- don't give one. The reason they were mentioned at all by those two has nothing to do with this thread at all. If I got 12 stars or 1000 stars or no stars- it doesn't matter. The illusion of public opinion they place on stars is what really is the issue. They are trying to sway public opinion with stars (and stripes
we are not!).

Gimme another one! Screw em! Let them read my posts until they figure it out!



[edit on 2-4-2008 by dk3000]



posted on Apr, 2 2008 @ 07:53 PM
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reply to post by dk3000
 


Lol,well someone on here is giving stars out besides me or you!So are you arguing that by the law on the books his right was violated or that BECAUSE of the law it was violated?



posted on Apr, 2 2008 @ 07:55 PM
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reply to post by rcwj75
 


Lol,you didnt think the nice gesture(and sudden switch of tone)would stop his rampage did you??



posted on Apr, 2 2008 @ 08:00 PM
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reply to post by dk3000
 


I also read that he was handing out fliers with a group of people, not eating lunch, I'll get back with ore when I find that article. And when I remember how to post links.

www.newsday.com...

[edit on 2-4-2008 by Finn1916]



posted on Apr, 2 2008 @ 08:18 PM
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Originally posted by Finn1916
reply to post by dk3000
 


I also read that he was handing out fliers with a group of people, not eating lunch, I'll get back with ore when I find that article. And when I remember how to post links.

www.newsday.com...

[edit on 2-4-2008 by Finn1916]


That's total BS. I heard that to- however witnesses and the dud was on the Randi Rhodes show and she debunked that pretty quickly as did Rush Limbaugh and I think... never mind what I think!


PS- Posters/members worry for nothing. Its still legal to carry weapons for self-defense. Be responsible and be sure. We all have the right to use any force necessary when defending our rights in peaceful protest. However for the sake of argument...Papercuts can be very nasty and painful- probably some cases a cause of death from infection...later. Next time you see an old man with a stack of fliers....understand the dangers and just shoot him or place him under citizen's arrest- even if he didn't have any but you really thought he did. Even if the mall people told he had them and he doesn't have them when you run across him. Shoot him anyway... we will all figure out the proper way to process and understand what happened later.




[edit on 2-4-2008 by dk3000]



posted on Apr, 2 2008 @ 08:23 PM
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reply to post by dk3000
 



I never said that gave them anymore reaon, just that he wasn't just eating lunch. I only watch the news shows when I go to a friends house as all I get in my apartment is static.



posted on Apr, 2 2008 @ 08:25 PM
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reply to post by Finn1916
 


I hear ya. But if you could listen to talk radio at your friends house you would have heard what they all were eating for lunch!




posted on Apr, 2 2008 @ 08:29 PM
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See,this back and forth "bickering" is the exact reason that backs up one of my earlier post-about why Democracy itself is set to fail.You will always have people arguing back and forth on two sides of an issue,and they argue intently as we can see here.Now imagine how it really is-250 million people all split with an issue-there is no wa we can get enough unaminous(?)support to efect change on ANYTHING.



posted on Apr, 2 2008 @ 08:44 PM
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Originally posted by jkrog08
See,this back and forth "bickering" is the exact reason that backs up one of my earlier post-about why Democracy itself is set to fail.You will always have people arguing back and forth on two sides of an issue,and they argue intently as we can see here.Now imagine how it really is-250 million people all split with an issue-there is no wa we can get enough unaminous(?)support to efect change on ANYTHING.


This is very important- which is why it is important to know as many of the facts from people who were there before posting. Which is exactly what I did. I did not mention that he is a deacon at the poorest church in town- because that would be off topic. There is a lot more information including his booking report which has been photocopied and put on the net. No fliers and no mention of them either. My aim is to get people to do the research then post.

UNSOLICITED ADVICE:

Should this happen to anyone arrest or otherwise. Keep all records and pay attention to everything and post it on the net. Lawyers are pretty much useless. Let the people help you by posting the truth and the facts regarding the circumstances!!!

Freedom has more powerful friends than its enemies do. Dont give up- never surrender!


PS- here is a link to a related story of peaceful protest:

www.cbsnews.com...

There is law which states that it is illegal for this kind of demonstration to occur on Supreme Court Property (think of it as a big LAW MALL if you must). This law is unconstitutional and cannot be put forth or enforced legally because its is against the rights and protections of the constitution its self- which is designed to keep this from happening.

So officers- what law is legal and what is not? I say the Constitution and 85% of the American citizens say the Constitution is the real law. You are upholding laws which are illegal and unenforceable legally. You are actually breaking the law- you are criminals with guns just as your "superiors" have trained you to be.

Pick a side- you cannot protect the crooks in congress or in government any longer. The people have chosen- you can either gage it by public opinion or wait until over 250 million people removed your tasers and guns for good. So go out and get the bad guys the real bad guys and do the job you signed up for and stop being so utterly stupid and power hungry thinking you know everything when the majority says you don't.

btw- 250 million stars will not fit on my browser.




[edit on 2-4-2008 by dk3000]



posted on Apr, 3 2008 @ 01:47 AM
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Originally posted by dk3000
The old guy was not trespassing He was having lunch with his wife and someone asked him to turn his shirt inside out or leave...Can this be any clearer?


You must honestly think your right. Your not, but I can see once YOU decide that everyone else is wrong, thats it. When the owners/operators of the mall tell you, you have to leave and you refuse...thats called CRIMINAL TRESPASSING...which he was arrested for...NOT NOT NOT Protesting...READ THE ARTICLE....PLEASE READ THE ARTICLE!!!! and stop putting YOUR 2cents into the article. I know/understand your position on a personal level..but this thread isn't about YOU...its about the old man refusing to leave another persons property. Your trying to ask me if its any clearer its been like glass to me ever since I read the article....YOU just have a personal issue about the law and cops enforcing the law that clouds your reaction to what happened.



FYI- malls are for the public built on private property.


True, BUT the owners of the land and building hire GUESS WHO security to enforce THEIR rules on THEIR land...so they write up whats called procedures. The staff and security are paid to follow that procedure...they did....so yes, a mall is built by someone for others to come and enjoy...but the land/buidling and more importantly THE RULES are still theirs...not ours. Again..you may not like it, agree with, or accept it...but thats FACT!



That's the issue that is killing the rights of people and idiots like you who do not understand this. Arrest and tase- arrest and tase.


Understand what..that the American citizen who owns their own land/business should bow down to YOU? Its THEIR land, THEIR rules, THEIR business...there is nothing to understand...it is cut and dry.

Look man, I know if you owned this mall that old guy and his protesting people would of been allowed to stay, you make that clear. You would of told your staff and security..let him go and wear that shirt. People from all over would of come to you and your staff complaining about the shirt and you would of said look people he has the right to free speech and to be here in my mall so just accept it. And the old man and friends would of been there all day....I get it...good for you...but YOUR not the owner of this mall, YOUR not the owner of the property, its not YOUR call to make....the owner/staff made the call and said leave...he said NO...that my friend is against the law....one last time like it or not: HE BROKE THE LAW and THE MALL HAS THE RIGHT TO MAKE HIM LEAVE!!!!

Also, one last time....I am all for a change in some laws, and I am all for just letting the old guy have his day in the sun...but guess what...IT WASN'T MY MALL/BUSINESS/LAND....I have NO say in it.....



posted on Apr, 3 2008 @ 02:10 AM
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Originally posted by dk3000
There is a lot more information including his booking report which has been photocopied and put on the net. No fliers and no mention of them either. My aim is to get people to do the research then post.


Really...show me this report! You say we need to do research before we post...well where is your research? You have been wrong so far about this whole arrest.

One other thing since YOU say I have to do research, I did...here is the ACTUAL police blotter of the arrest and why from the SCPD. So your wrong again, he WAS handing out stuff.

www.co.suffolk.ny.us...

Finally...do a little more research and you'll come to find out..200 more of his friends were OUTSIDE the mall lot on PUBLIC property protesting and handing stuff out ALL day without any police saying a word....hmmmmmmmmmmm interesting huh!




[edit on 4/3/2008 by rcwj75]



posted on Apr, 3 2008 @ 12:30 PM
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Originally posted by rcwj75

Originally posted by dk3000
There is a lot more information including his booking report which has been photocopied and put on the net. No fliers and no mention of them either. My aim is to get people to do the research then post.


Really...show me this report! You say we need to do research before we post...well where is your research? You have been wrong so far about this whole arrest.

One other thing since YOU say I have to do research, I did...here is the ACTUAL police blotter of the arrest and why from the SCPD. So your wrong again, he WAS handing out stuff.

www.co.suffolk.ny.us...

Finally...do a little more research and you'll come to find out..200 more of his friends were OUTSIDE the mall lot on PUBLIC property protesting and handing stuff out ALL day without any police saying a word....hmmmmmmmmmmm interesting huh!




[edit on 4/3/2008 by rcwj75]


Nope not interesting at all. You are entitled to think I am wrong- but just because you say I am doesn't make me wrong. I am not going to looking for Randi Rhodes broadcasts and do your work and research for you. She read the booking report on the air.

What happened to this man is a symptom of a much larger issue which is quickly rising to the public awareness of a "police state" which we are in the middle of. Public reaction and police arrogance will bring about a battle which the police will use and when the dust settles- and it will- you and those like you will not only find yourselves in an unemployment line- but on the permanent dole because work histories as a former policeman will likely keep the new breed of employers from hiring you. The we will see who writes "whiny" threads in the future- which will be much brighter after this fascist war is finished.

I predict a new breed of "public servants" will arise from the ashes to be trained to serve the public trust and carry out the duty much better and more effectively- thereby keeping the new real peace. I also believe the "police" of today will NOT be eligible for the job.

I hope you have other skills- I really do!



posted on Apr, 3 2008 @ 01:00 PM
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Originally posted by dk3000
Nope not interesting at all. You are entitled to think I am wrong- but just because you say I am doesn't make me wrong. I am not going to looking for Randi Rhodes broadcasts and do your work and research for you. She read the booking report on the air.


Of course your not interested, you don't wanna see the TRUTH...you want to keep looking at it from YOUR perspective and not the FACTUAL way. I linked the official Police blotter of the arrest, what else could you possible want...and Randi Rhodes of Air America...yeah there is a reliable source hahahahaha! I also took the time and searched the old guys name on her website...NOTHING!!!! G-wonder why! Me KNOWING your wrong doesn't matter...your right...you have proven your wrong about this incident and thread from the first time you posted.


What happened to this man is a symptom of a much larger issue which is quickly rising to the public awareness of a "police state" which we are in the middle of. Public reaction and police arrogance will bring about a battle which the police will use and when the dust settles- and it will- you and those like you will not only find yourselves in an unemployment line- but on the permanent dole because work histories as a former policeman will likely keep the new breed of employers from hiring you. The we will see who writes "whiny" threads in the future- which will be much brighter after this fascist war is finished.


Again you are ranting about PERSONAL feelings as you have throughout this thread and have nothing that really means anything. Nothing was done wrong here by any police....of course you will never admit that. I like how you avoided the other protesters NOT getting arrested...why not..oh wait..its because they DIDN'T break any laws....wow...such a police state we are in that 200 people got to protest ALL DAY without incident...


I predict a new breed of "public servants" will arise from the ashes to be trained to serve the public trust and carry out the duty much better and more effectively- thereby keeping the new real peace. I also believe the "police" of today will NOT be eligible for the job.

I hope you have other skills- I really do!


Please tell me YOUR going to be on the new police force....please tell me YOUR going to deal with all of the things this society throws at us. Or you going to sit back like most and just complain, second guess and let everyone else step up and take on the responsability...again?



posted on Apr, 3 2008 @ 01:03 PM
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reply to post by rcwj75
 



files.abovetopsecret.com...


This link will explain everything. Simple concise and easy to understand without having to go back and re-read my clouded posts and self aggrandizing pity rantings which have been mistaken and caused total confusion and derailing the OP's thread.

I hope this clears things up.

PS-rcw... you are welcome. I have written permission from the artist to post and share where I see fit.

[edit on 3-4-2008 by dk3000]



posted on Apr, 3 2008 @ 01:10 PM
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reply to post by dk3000
 


NO idea what thats supposed to mean to you but thanks...since I was a soldier years ago and now a LEO this is a cool pic to have...haha...So Thanks



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