Whistle Blower Protocol for ATS

Here's where we try to come up with an idea for how to handle those posters that come here saying they have a fabulous story because they have inside information to some skullduggery within the various governments of Earth. (Mustn't limit ourselves to the US, after all, we generally mistrust all governments)

The idea is to formulate a plan whereby the new poster, Mr. Rat, feels safe in unloading his info, and where he isn't badgered into leaving by those too skeptical to listen past the first fantastic claims.

Let's seriously give thought to how this could reasonably be accomplished. Let's also take each idea put forward and look for areas where it might fail. This means that we need to pick at weaknesses in any idea to see how it might be exploited by a hoaxer, how it might be exploited by members eager to debunk or promote the story, or used by other interested parties to silence the potential witness.

Above all, it has to be a solution that does not create an undue amount of hardship for Mr. Rat, and can be easily found by a first time member interested in divulging secrets.

Last, don't take offense at other posters who point out flaws in your ideas. Any good idea has a thousand failures before it has a single success. (Or something along those numbers.) So NO TAKING THINGS PERSONAL in this endeavor.

Nice post NGC,bout' time a staff member did something about this ever growing problem.I am realitivly new to ATS but like to think I have come into my own here and made somewhat of a name for myself and my beliefs.Now to the point:I heard someone cme up with an idea for this s I guess Ill just hijack it(lol,oh well)


How about we post a notice to anyone claiming to have "info" that they will read before their OP.Stating that you will have 2 post to lay down all evidence and your entire story,if it is not done within that time you will be banned and the thread deleated.

reply to post by jkrog08



That was my idea (and has been for a couple years) I posted yesterday in the other thread about this subject. I also added the reasons I didin't like it as be all end all solution.

Springer...

I know this is off topic but what forum can I find that pokeman is real thread?I just wana read the nonsense,lol.thanx

Ok well how about this?(sorry for hijacking your idea springer,lol)(oh and I called you Yoda yesterday cause you talked in that backwards talk,lol)

Back to topic:Even though I still like your idea,lets move on.We can employ a special commity(?) to review every post by the OP and after the first 3 post make a desicion as to whether its legit or not.The commity can be of 7 people maybe.I will voulinteer.

reply to post by jkrog08


That's unfair the the ATS community as a whole. I just say give them a chance to tell their story and then you can say whatever you want to say. So what if they don't give you much information at first, but one way or the other it will come out. Give the hoaxter the oppurtunity to hoax himself with his information.

Originally posted by Solarskye
reply to post by jkrog08

 

That's unfair the the ATS community as a whole. I just say give them a chance to tell their story and then you can say whatever you want to say. So what if they don't give you much information at first, but one way or the other it will come out. Give the hoaxter the oppurtunity to hoax himself with his information.

That doesnt make much sense-how is that "unfair"to the ATS,what is unfair is LETTING HOAXERS PERPITRATE HOAXES-thus downing ATS's credibility and distracting us from the real truth.I personally didnt come to ATS to hear short sci/fi stories,did you?

reply to post by jkrog08


No but who died and made you judge. If you don't like sci-fi then don't reply to it. There's gonna be alot of bad rocks in the bunch but there just might be a diamond that this so called commity throws out the door and is lost forever.

This is a place to discuss and debate peoples experiences whether you believe them or not, with intelligent discussion. So if seven people believe the story is false but fifty ATS members believe it to be true, then forget the ones who want to know more. That's not right.

I love ATS because the members can join in and debate a persons beliefs, ideas and experinces, but calling a poster names or a haoxter without proof is ignorant. Put yourself in the position of knowing information that ATS and other sites have been looking for. Remember this information is classified and people are watching you all the time. I'd be a nervous reck if it were me. Just I thought.

How about a 'whistleblower' button where it goes to a mod/owner forum where they can assess it and make any further neccessary enquries before putting it out there to be ripped to shreds by everyone else (I say that tongue in cheek, but I admit to being responsible for one recent hoax shout)...

It's an idea, that I think would work, if a little labour intensive and open to a little inital abuse, but at least if a post smells on there, you could instantly ignore that IP....

what you think kiddies?

MSP

[edit on 30-3-2008 by more_serotonin_pls]

reply to post by more_serotonin_pls


That's cool. A button that goes to all staff and administration and flashes at you guys. Good idea more_serotonin_pls. Then the investigation starts behind the scenes while the rest of us Atser's keep them busy with discussion.

This is just something I've seen done on other sites - the first X number of posts by a new member must be approved by a mod before being published to the public. A moderated probation period for new posters.

I know, this adds work to the already overwhelmed mods. But if another 'first time poster, potential hoaxer' comes around, at least a mod would have already seen it before it gets out of control - and could monitor the thread as necessary.

Just a thought.

This is what could be done:


Forum: Whistleblowers Lounge

Dear ATS-member. This Forum will allow you to post information and documentation pertaining to cover-ups, scandals and conspiracies in a safe, anonymous and serious way.

The requirement for opening a thread here is to attach some form of documentation, back-up or evidence of your case for either the public to read or at least for ATS-Staff to verify your identity and the sincerity of your post (if for some reason you´d rather not go widespread public yet).

We appreciate your contribution to knowledge and freedom and are obliged to treat your "coming out" with a great deal of care and sincerity.

Thank you.

kinda -

I was think more that is someone has something soooo worthy that they hit the whistleblower button beofer putting it out to the rest of us, so there are no issues over creds, etc...

I, for one, would trust it if the 3 amigos said - yep - this is who they say they are....

Personally I think this is a great idea , but as you said, the methods yet to be suggested of outing hoaxers will be scrutinized to narrow down the ‘best’ methods and that there will be flaws to be pointed out in this process to make it fair for all. If I may be so bold as to point out what I see as a few potential flaws to the concept that should be considered.
Will this system apply to ALL forums? Will Skunk Works for instance be exempt due to the nature of this forum?
Will this system apply only to ‘new’ posters or will current users be scrutinized?
This could also remove some of the fun and challenge that we currently have as there are a number of topics (I think we all know which ones) that are a perennial favorite for many of us to argue/debate/discuss back and forth. No matter how dizzy we get from going around in circles.
If the above is taken into consideration and formalised systems for interrogation are put in place this could save many a lot of heartache and anxiety as long as everybody gets on board.

Nice thread, F & S for ya!

As pointed out in that recent thread, evidence is not necessarily proof, therefore, provided the OP can give some evidence of his credentials and the subject matter in the first couple of posts, this will give the researchers something to get their teeth into.

Those researchers should get their teeth into the subject matter, not the messenger by the way. Unless you want to them to go off in huff and post their stuff on another, less reputable, website.

Serializing the story by drip feeding (without evidence or actually saying anything constructive!) naturally gets up peoples noses and they get frustrated and take it out on the OP.

I like the button idea, and sky’s lounge idea would also work.

Good stuff!


H

reply to post by more_serotonin_pls


The amigo's have checked crediblity before haven't they. I like it when they do that. Sometimes you don't know it's a hoax and I've seen threads with twenty pages before it was found to be a hoax. That's why I believe in letting the person spill his or her guts and we'll found out the truth sooner or later. I think it's good for ATS when members catch a hoaxter in the process.

I think it would work best if we get a bob lazaar type person here that just wants to let rip....

I dont think it would apply to a usual UFO sighting.

Nor do I think it would do us good, to 'vet' new members if you will....just seems a l'il harsh if you know what I mean. If people join and post rubbish straight away I think out members will just ignore them full stop.

Know what I'm getting at?

Skunkworks, needs no proof - that's why it's such fun.

reply to post by Solarskye


yep they have.


That's why they have my respect....

They dont just let someone reel their members - ie - us - in.


You gotta respect that level of commitment really

reply to post by Solarskye



Solarskye is so RIGHT ON in this post I had to mention it publicly.

Suggesting a committee of 7 or even 700 to be the judges of someone's "story"/experience is called censorship no matter how you slice it. It's the few deciding what the many may or may not read. NOT good.

WRT myself or another senior staffer reviewing evidence or credentials, we constantly offer that on the threads we are made aware of. With over 4,000 new posts a day on average it's easy to miss many.

WRT a mod reviewing each new member's first few threads, well that's just impossible with the huge number of new members (>100 a day) and again smacks of censorship a little.

I have always had faith in our community's ability to root out the hoaxers and we have a darn good track record in doing so. I think it's important to point out that it's impossible to "debunk" or discredit someone's professed experiences. Don't confuse what someone says they saw, felt or heard for a "hoax", they're not the same. Delusion is certainly a possibility in this realm but hoax is not.

A hoax requires a claim of EVIDENCE or knowledge based on position.

i.e. "I know the Govt. has been reverse engineering alien tech for years because I worked on it." THAT (the employment) is something we can and do require evidence of .

The following is not a hoax, it's an "experience" (likely a delusional one but I am not a doctor)...

"I know the government has been reverse engineering alien tech for years because I saw an elephant riding a snow board while sipping a martini and playing poker with a Gray."

The former offers LOTS of opportunities for verification/discussion and will get the person banned if they don't produce same while the latter is hardly worth responding to even though it is within the bounds of the TAC.

Springer...

I can see that this is a difficult if not intractable issue. I hesitate to post frequently because of the behavior of members that is outside the spirit of the T and C if not outside the letter of the ATS membership T and C.

Truth comes first, the protection of the integrity of the community body of knowledge second, and the protection ofthe extra-ordinardinary discloser within the community next.

If truth made public is what the extra-ordinary discloser is really after as opposed to other lesser reasons couldn't having a site-staff person proxy-present the data provide a modicum of security and protecion for the extra-ordinary discloser within the community?

How to prove and proof? Tough stuff, that would require a vetting team. It may not be possible to do better what is already begin done well at ATS with the exception of the individual members who'd not give information a fair hearing for whatever reasoning. A standard of truth if not proof would seem the responsibility and privilege of any member.

ATS is an extra-ordinary online community for sure and if any group can develop a better path in denying ignorance while informing for the benefit of all this would be it.

Speak'

[edit on 30-3-2008 by SpeakEasyOne]