Why ATS will never find the "truth".

I realize this topic may come to some on here as me "bashing" ATS,that is not the case.After the last couple of weeks I have read many threads that were probably hoaxes,I have read threads that IMO "bashed" other threads,and I have also come to the conclusion that even with all the great "real" work on here done to try and find the "truth" if disclosure on ANY big black project or the hidden agenda is to happen it will likely not be started by anyone on on here.Why?You ask,IMO for three main reasons.

1.This is probably the biggest-IMO no "whistleblower"will come to ATS or any other "alternitive" web site.Why?Because if they did have critical information they would post it to the major media,if they posted it on one of these "fringe" sites no-one,not even most on here would believe them.Even if they presented "incredible"evidence most on here would cry "hoax",as is being done with many of the possible real evidence already presented on here.We at ATS have become to skeptical-skepticisim is good to have it helps with credibility,but to much is bad.

2.Any major disclosure will be voulunteered by the PTB,it will be THEIR choice to disclose,or it will be out of their hands,either way it will happen not by smeone "finding" the truth,but rather the truth coming to everyone-nothing can hide forever.

3.If someone does by chance on ATS come across LEGITIMATE evidence,they realy wouldnt know what to do with it.They would probably(likely)post it on here,and then attempt to go to the media,but be silenced before hand.I know we all say we know what we would do-but when it comes down to you and your families saftey and well-being you and I know that you would keep the evidence quite and not talk about it.

In closing I am not saying ATS serves no purpose-it can and is helping to find the truth,all I am saying is it probably will not be the entity that finally "puts it all together".I could be wrong,and hope I am,for all I know tomarrow ATS will find evidence and disclose everything.But keep in mind for point one-another reason a true source wouldnt come to this site or any like it is because hoaxers take advantage of this site and thus force it to lose its credibility.And really,whats the quickest way to disclose real information quickly?The media-its quick and confirmed.I am looking forward to hearing you guys responses.Thank you.

EDIT to say:I hope we all dont find the truth out to late.

[edit on 3/30/2008 by jkrog08]

reply to post by jkrog08


i understand your thinking and was contemplating this yesterday as i am sure others have also.

if i had an explosive story i think i would be going to the highest bidder...

my 2 cents

Yea,but if your info was rea how worried would you be of getting "silenced"I mean would you even tell your family or friends for fear of getting them hurt?Also would you have time to sell to the highest bidder,thats what I was getting at in point 3 I think it was-that we wouldnt kow how to handle it and thus get caught before we could get it to anyone that could air it.

I seriously doubt that there will ever be disclosure on any conspiracy. Our job here at ATS is to ferret out the clues, put them together, then beat them to death until we can come awy with a valid idea of what is really going on.

To accomplish this end, we need a large number of sceptics that are well versed in many different areas. Add to this mixture a large group of believers in said conspiracy. It forces both groups to research which in turn either adds to the validity of the argument or debunks it sucessfully.

Our goal is to determine when a cigar is symbolic or just a cigar.

Because of the rash we sometimes get of "whistle blowers" who turn out to be hoaxers, it's easy to think that ATS will come in second or third to some other form discovering proof. I can understand how this idea might be appealing. But let me lay out a few thoughts here.

I doubt very much that some government agent is going to break free of "the machine" that is all the interlocking alphabet soup agencies we know and love. Trust me, once they have you, your soul is well and truly sold. You have a higher chance of getting a release from a contract with Satan himself. There is a higher chance of winning the lottery three time in a row, than someone showing up out of the blue and unburdening himself for karma's sake. It's doubtful to many decimal points, IMO, that someone will come along, and in one fell swoop, tie up all the pieces of the puzzle and hand it to the world.

Governments work by compartmentalization and always having someone watching someone else. The more you know, the less privacy you have, till a point comes where the agency has a closer bond than your wife. And in the name of National Security anything can be done. (This isn't some new Patriot Act thing, it's been that way since the days of the pharaohs at least.) Anyone with enough knowledge to do any real damage is in a web too tight to ever break free, even in their own mind. (You don't advance to positions of knowledge without some heavy evaluations.)

But like criminals have for centuries, details are overlooked. Shortcuts are taken. Mistakes are made. Time steals technological advantages of years gone past. Conspiracies crumble because time erodes their foundation, and someone, somewhere, sees enough verifiable pieces to the pattern to deduce the whole, and exposes it by scaring the surviving conspirators into turning on each other, and so the structure implodes.

Finding details that reach a critical mass may well happen to some researcher here on ATS. The average member just gathers as many odd/strange facts as he can, and then makes a thread that last a few days. He cobbles together some idea off the top of his head, and has an "instant conspiracy soup" It seems like nothing is accomplished.

But slowly, piece by piece, a puzzle is being put together. Somewhere, in some mind, connections are being made. It may even be someone who has only posted here a few times over a period of years, because they listen and wait. It could be some prolific member with a flash of insight from hours and days on the boards. It could be a lurker who just stands in the shadows.

Conspiracies are solved piecemeal, with hard work and a touch of mad genius. With the smile of Lady Luck. Breakthroughs come at the oddest moments and in the strangest of places. ATS has as good a chance as any, and better than some. We have a collective wisdom working just below the surface.

Just my opinions.

reply to post by NGC2736


Great post,starred.But if what you say is true than we are up against something so big,so grand,that it seems pointless to even try.Why dont we just conciede and let them do whatever the hell they want.I truly hope that someone,somewhere(I would like it to be from this site,but anywhere would be great)puts the grand puzzle together.Maybe we wil get lucky and the giant octopus we know as the government will get to big and tighten its grip to tight that someone with something slips through its grasp.Until that day we can only hope,also hows it going on changing protocol for "whistleblowers"making them post evidence in their first two or three post.

reply to post by jkrog08


Ever heard of the phrase where there's a will there's a way?

Just because you don't happen to possess the genius insight at this specific moment doesn't mean that you won't in about 5 or 6 months times when we're all watching the aftermath of the Olympics and you spot a loose end.

From there it's just about explaining what you know.

It just seems to me that if we or anyone is really gong to make a difference than we must up the anty-so to say.We have to try and find big pieces,little pieces dont work,by the time you figure out the little piece,100 more pieces have been added to the preverbial "puzzle"

reply to post by jkrog08


Many ideas for handling whistle blowers have been put out, but so far, careful review has shown them to be leaky vessels.

It would be nice if someone could come up with an idea that couldn't be shot down for some valid reason. As a matter of fact, right here in Skunk Works, home of the wild idea, I'm going to start a thread asking for ideas. I'll ask that members not only think up ideas that might work, but also look for flaws in ones that are thought up.

So all of you geniuses watch for it to appear in the next few minutes, and let's see if the collective wisdom of ATS can come up with two or three workable ideas I can submit to the rest of the staff.

BUT, put on your "play nice caps" and don't get heated over having an idea shot full of holes. It's by looking for the flaws in a plan that we can move towards something that actually might work.

(**Besides, we're getting way off topic for this thread by discussing it here.**)

Originally posted by jkrog08
reply to post by NGC2736

 

Great post,starred.But if what you say is true than we are up against something so big,so grand,that it seems pointless to even try.Why dont we just conciede and let them do whatever the hell they want. ...

Are "they" not already doing that? Did the people for the wars? Did we vote to have our email spied on? Did you or I vote for increased police brutality, tasering old women, or even mandatory seatbelts? I dare say we did not.

Yet, if there are not independent seekers of truth, the System of Control which governs the masses would likely expand and reach whatever goals they have (which seems to require them to demean and destroy lawful citizens) at a much faster pace. We don't know that due to the Internet and it's instant global transmission of any knowable information has not slowed their progress. Reversing that, we also don't know if it has made any difference at all, regarding a PTB agenda. But as Trinity replied to Neo (at the end of Matrix II) when he basically suggested it was pointless to run on foot from rapidly approaching Sentinels, "We have to try." Mainstream media seems to be totally unreliable for the deeper side of the story, as Alternate Theorists have revealed through these recent decades of above top secret sleuthing.

If not us, then who? But I found your OP interesting. One does sometimes wonder "why bother?" . . .

[edit on 3/30/2008 by OptionToChoose]

Seeing as how the "truth" is different for everybody and often depends on ones perspective I say we as a collective group will never find it as we are all looking for something different.

I think a lot of us follow this pattern..

we ask "what is the truth"?

then we get 500 different answers

then we ask "How do you KNOW it's the truth"?

The fact is in my opinion, IF YOU ARE SEARCHING FOR THE TRUTH, YOU HAVE ALREADY FOUND IT

in other words, keeping an open mind and the fact you are thinking outside the box is the only answer, whatever YOUR truth maybe, it is found within your own questions, within your own mind, and the answers will be the ones that come from YOUR search and feel like the truth to YOU

People often say phrases like " i asked myself....." and " i had a word with my self" But the fact is people don't do this, the other day i was confused over something spiritual and i actually meditated and ASKED MY SELF, and i actually did answer my own questions!! yes i felt like a nutter, but afterwards i had a hell of a lot more clarity!

I am guilty of it myself at times, but i do wonder why we as humans find it so hard to THINK ON OUR OWN??

Another reason I am skeptical that ATS will ever uncover the truth is that people on here are always like"I might be a lil crazy,or I felt like a nutter"IMO pick a side of the fence already,your not truly doing anything if you cant stop questioning yourself.If your crazy than so be it,but all these people cant be,just cause you think outside the norm-does that mean your crazy?No,people(myself included)need to stop feeling so self conscious about their beliefs on these "alternate"topics,that is the only way we will ever get things done.

Also the truth is different for everybody doesnt work with me,that is making a concrete event metaphysical.There is only one truth-yes it might MEAN something different to us all,but the fact is that there is only one truth.ie:are aliens here or not,do they exsist or not,does the gov. know or not,etc,etc.

OK, You say ATS will never find the truth. About anything.

I'm OK with that.

I did not come to this site expecting anyone to hand me the truth on a plate. I came here because I enjoy discussing the things in this world that drop my jaw. I have never asked any single member to prove anything to me, and I never will.

I've had experiences in my life that I can't prove. It would be wrong of me to demand proof of another persons experiences.

That doesn't mean I have to believe them. It just means I can't call them a liar.

I'm here because I enjoy the discussion. There are people on this site who's intelligence and insight flat out impress the hell out of me. (Byrd tops the list.)

If you're looking for the absolute truth, join a religion. Doesn't matter which one, they all promise it.

If you're looking for intelligent discussion on the hot topics of the world, You can't top ATS.

I'm not here to find the truth. I'm here to gain insight and perspective on whats going on in the world I live in.

IMO,there is no point to "discussing"things going on around you if you have no hope of DOING something about it.To me thats like saying "aWell as long as I know the government is going to kill us all and let the aliens take over thats fine with me."(In no way am I saying thats the case,that is just an example)

Good thread. But I read some of the threads to open my mind. I'll put bits and pieces together and either have one heck of a conspiracy or one heck of a plot for a story.

Like this underground tunnel theory. Why did Wilkes-Barre, PA put out a request for information to install a city wide video camera surveillance system consisting of over 500 cameras in a seven square mile area? And the system will terminate in the Wilkes-Barre police department's headquarters. (The Wi-Fi has already been installed.) Is Wilkes Barre so dangerous that they have to have such a system? Is it fraught with so many college students (2 colleges in the area) doing unnatural and law-breaking activities? Are the city parks overflowing with deviants and lawless, homeless people that they have to have a CAMERA SYSTEM to control everyone "in the interest of public safety"? What's so important in Wilkes Barre, PA to install a camera system costing over $4 Million.

Well, put the underground tunnel with a transit stop to get to the surface of the earth in Wilkes Barre and you have a way to control access to that underground station. In times of a national emergency, the government can control who even gets near that entrance/exit point and maybe to safety.

Even if it's not true, what a heck of a background to write a story. If true, then, whoever writes it would be a visionary.

reply to post by darkelf

Our job here at ATS is to ferret out the clues, put them together, then beat them to death until we can come awy with a valid idea of what is really going on.

I totally agree. I do not think the primary objective is to inform anyone that is not clued in, that there is a lot going on behind the scenes. Does it really matter anyway? Many of us will not be like the majority that are wearing blinders when all hell breaks lose. Who knows where we will all be?

reply to post by mrwupy


I have nothing to say about this because you just said it all. I Thank You for your open mind, your awareness and your wisdom.

reply to post by jkrog08

Also the truth is different for everybody doesnt work with me,that is making a concrete event metaphysical.There is only one truth-yes it might MEAN something different to us all,but the fact is that there is only one truth.ie:are aliens here or not,do they exist or not,does the gov. know or not,etc,etc.

There are 3 realities; your reality, mine, and the way it really is. If a person makes a decision to leave a box, then one is open to discover an actual truth. Often it may have no comparison to former beliefs and may be quite different. But we are all products of our past, whether it be; religion, academia or even the military. Everyone is to be commended for jumping out of a box of familiarity, to the unknown.

P.S. God will let us take the credit for "our own enlightenment." But who got you there in the first place, and who opened up the window for us to see?

No. We wont find it, but we chase it all the time!

Great miss believe is that truth is something stable, and you can find it, and keep it, like it has always been. Its not, its living and growing timeless wisdom, what change its forms every single moment.

Truth change its form every day, and truth in history is different than tomorrows. Some elements of truth are timeless, and never disappears, those are signs to follow, what makes them as Truth. And if we compare truth its greatest enemy, to lies, we find out that "meaning" is the most great part of truth.

When we chase the truth, we fight for truth, and we follow its meanings here, also in ATS...

So, we wont catch it, but we knows where its hiding, and we surround it sometimes to clear picture, in sight of our minds, before its born in somewhere else. Its like chasing terrorists, we know that they are there, and sometimes we see them too, and catch them, but like wisdom has it own will: Its made to be chased.

Truth is a great enemy for us all, and I respect it in its greatest power. I am glad when I get touched from it, but I know that I can not own it. And in moment of lost, I gather all my information together, and I start to chase it again: In the search I will debunk and destroy many lies again, but this battle is not made to win: Its called truthers life in way to wisdom.