I think you all need to lighten up and not get so upset about other peoples beliefs and opinions.

If you feel the need to vent out some frustration send me a u2u calling me names etc i don't mind i'd find it funny,after all it's only text on a screen

Originally posted by squintingcat

Originally posted by lilblam


Actually, the truth isn't that simple.. it takes a lot of mental effort to learn and understand.. and much determination. It is the RELIGIONS that oversimplify reality... good people go to heaven, bad people go to hell, God created everything that is, the end. Reality is infinitely complex and hyperdimentional... all that we see is an illusion.


the truth is very simple and if you knew it you would know that.
the world was shaped by the minds of children,it couldnt be anything but simple.

Alright, but the minds of children are infinitely complex. Quantum dynamics... multi-dimentionality, and EVERYTHING that exists that we're aware of at this time, is less than 0.0000000000001% of reality. In fact, it is infinitely less than that, because reality is infinite in scope. So sure you can say it's simple, but simplicity is relative. What seems simple to one person, seems complex to another. However, you cannot deny that you know NOTHING of reality and how it works, and neither can I.

Once you say it is simple, is your mind ancitipating learning the truth that is SIMPLE, and if it is anything other than what you want it to be (simple), then it must not be the truth? Well good luck with that frame of mind.

Originally posted by Gazrok
Interestingly enough, you'll see that it's often the Christians that elevate a debate into a rant...

It's because they are passionate about their beliefs, and then the mud-slinging and name-calling commence....

The Black Jesus thread is an excellent example...

Most of the atheists simply keep their cool, most of the time...

Still, I think it's healthy. When a religion or even atheism is attacked, it forces both sides to hit the books, and re-examine their stance, and in the process, learn something....so it's not all a negative thing....

Well the Christians only hit one book... and it has nothing to do with knowledge.. just faith and belief. That doesn't count!

Originally posted by Knightmare
one thing about this post Neo, it made it very easy to see who on ATS are the satanists. A true satanist, whether concious of it or not, will rally to defend him.

What i find even more odd, is the people who believe in a devil, but not a God...

Satanists who don't believe in God aren't satanists at all. A true satanist will refer to Jesjuah as Satan, while promoting another person as Christ, most like the Catholic Church has been doing the past two millennia. At the same time, a three folded Ba'al would be their God and the Zodiak their Heaven. That is satanism, and whoever has eyes to see with and brains to understand with should be able to see that the Pope is the False Prophet of Ba'al, and incarnation of the Zodiak meaning Heaven on Earth. Just look at the astrological charts they use. It's all Ba'al astrology, satanic Dragon worship basically. And in a most pathetic form even. Take the name John Paul II for instance. When you translate what the two names mean, you get ""YAHWEH is Gracious, Small and Second". It's also interresting to note that the name Paulus was a Roman family name, so he basically also say that John was a Roman which he wasn't. Also, the Hebrew first name of Paulus was Saul, or She'owl, the same as She'ol, translated Hades, Hell or the Pit in most bibles. John Paul II was also nearly assasinated, but he survived. He also says that the film of Mel Gibson is the true story of Christ, which it ofcourse isn't. It is nothing but a passionate drama play in the legacy of the beasts. Did they kill him just to be marvelled by the "beauty" in seeing someone innocent and great being tortured to death? Well that was the idea Pilate had. He even placed a sign above his trophy to show the whole world that he had killed the Messiah. Their heartless ignorance disgusts me.

Blessings,
Mikromarius

I'll thrash out the subject as much as I please!

Alright, maybe the subject is getting REALLY old.
But we must revive the topic ever once in a while so newer people can read them.

Once in a week would be a good quota

Originally posted by lilblam

Originally posted by squintingcat

Originally posted by lilblam


Actually, the truth isn't that simple.. it takes a lot of mental effort to learn and understand.. and much determination. It is the RELIGIONS that oversimplify reality... good people go to heaven, bad people go to hell, God created everything that is, the end. Reality is infinitely complex and hyperdimentional... all that we see is an illusion.


the truth is very simple and if you knew it you would know that.
the world was shaped by the minds of children,it couldnt be anything but simple.

Alright, but the minds of children are infinitely complex. Quantum dynamics... multi-dimentionality, and EVERYTHING that exists that we're aware of at this time, is less than 0.0000000000001% of reality. In fact, it is infinitely less than that, because reality is infinite in scope. So sure you can say it's simple, but simplicity is relative. What seems simple to one person, seems complex to another. However, you cannot deny that you know NOTHING of reality and how it works, and neither can I.

Once you say it is simple, is your mind ancitipating learning the truth that is SIMPLE, and if it is anything other than what you want it to be (simple), then it must not be the truth? Well good luck with that frame of mind.

you talk a lot but say nothing.

we are talking about religion here,what do quantum dynamics,muliti dimentionality and hyper dimentions have to do with this thread other than to let the rest of us know you know something about them.

it does not matter how complex something seems to one person,if its simple its simple.the fact that someone dosent get it dosent change that.

why people felt safer in large groups is simple,how rituals came about is simple,how what we call religion came about is simple,how and why humans took advantage of that is simple,understanding how intelligent humans were thousands of years ago compared to today is simple.

the truth is simple no matter what you say.

i agree; but a question?

has someone not already attempted to tackle this "issue"?

The Truth is like an image which is so big, that if you see the whole picture, you are so far away that you can't see the details which make the picture. We can't understand it, it is just to freakin' big, we need help on every level, and the only entity who CAN see the whole picture would be the same entity who MADE this picture in the first place. This picture is like the universe. You can't understand it, but you know it exists, but you have no idea about how big it is or what it contains. You simply can't grasp or comprehend it when in the physical shape you are.

Blessings,
Mikromarius

Originally posted by squintingcat

Originally posted by lilblam

Originally posted by squintingcat

Originally posted by lilblam


Actually, the truth isn't that simple.. it takes a lot of mental effort to learn and understand.. and much determination. It is the RELIGIONS that oversimplify reality... good people go to heaven, bad people go to hell, God created everything that is, the end. Reality is infinitely complex and hyperdimentional... all that we see is an illusion.


the truth is very simple and if you knew it you would know that.
the world was shaped by the minds of children,it couldnt be anything but simple.

Alright, but the minds of children are infinitely complex. Quantum dynamics... multi-dimentionality, and EVERYTHING that exists that we're aware of at this time, is less than 0.0000000000001% of reality. In fact, it is infinitely less than that, because reality is infinite in scope. So sure you can say it's simple, but simplicity is relative. What seems simple to one person, seems complex to another. However, you cannot deny that you know NOTHING of reality and how it works, and neither can I.

Once you say it is simple, is your mind ancitipating learning the truth that is SIMPLE, and if it is anything other than what you want it to be (simple), then it must not be the truth? Well good luck with that frame of mind.

you talk a lot but say nothing.

we are talking about religion here,what do quantum dynamics,muliti dimentionality and hyper dimentions have to do with this thread other than to let the rest of us know you know something about them.

it does not matter how complex something seems to one person,if its simple its simple.the fact that someone dosent get it dosent change that.

why people felt safer in large groups is simple,how rituals came about is simple,how what we call religion came about is simple,how and why humans took advantage of that is simple,understanding how intelligent humans were thousands of years ago compared to today is simple.

the truth is simple no matter what you say.

Simple is relative, so you cannot use that. Everything is infinite. If infinity is simple, so be it. Simple is a word like good and evil.. it's like saying "Devil is evil no matter what you say".. well so be it.

Things are what they ARE, simple is just someone's perception of it. And how does all that stuff I said relate to religion? Because religions ASSUME to know what reality is, when in fact they haven't the slightest clue. They are based on assumptions and outright lies. Well so are American politics...

Some things are hard to certain individuals, some things are simple. If all that you named is simple to you, so be it. Is it simple to everyone? No. Does this mean it is all simple? No, it means it IS what it IS... simple is just your opinion of it.

Once again, it is simply infinite. Is infinity simple? That's irrelavant

[Edited on 25-2-2004 by lilblam]

Lilblam,

all good comments but in my mind what keeps me from the etheral is evil.

remember live=evil.

since when has ATS been a christian site???

and honestly, neo, it seems as if you're simply FUELING mor religious debate forums instead of bringing them to a halt!

this thread already has 8 pages!

so quit complaining, maybe everyone isnt at YOUR high level of genius, but they arent stupid. and their beliefs deserve just as much respect.

I respect peoples opinions but, I have to agree... the old post "what is there is no God?" have been run inito the ground lately...

Originally posted by THENEO
Even though there has been many threads and often with large post counts, we still on a daily basis get the ubitiquous 'there is no god,' or christianity is the root of all evil, or Jesus was this color, or Islam is the demon faith etc., kind of threads being started.

Is it just me or do you agree or disagree with my premise here? How much do we have to thrash out the same subject here over and over?

Would you rather have just, "God is super uber cool," posts instead? Ya know, for a forum committed to denying ignorance, you sure see quite a bit of it around...

Originally posted by Scat
since when has ATS been a christian site???

and honestly, neo, it seems as if you're simply FUELING mor religious debate forums instead of bringing them to a halt!

this thread already has 8 pages!

so quit complaining, maybe everyone isnt at YOUR high level of genius, but they arent stupid. and their beliefs deserve just as much respect.

Thanks but I am aware of my superior intellect vs most of the rest of the posters at ATS.

Their beliefs do deserve respect but that does not make them valid.

Lastly, I made this thread because it needed to be made.

This thread is for idiots and I want it shut down and locked.......

This thread has lost all its usefullness.....

Only morons care whether or not santanists are on ATS....

Im tired of this thread getting replies...it should be shut down.....

the only point of this thread is for points...........

Im offended by this thread and it serves no purpose.....

i agree. my latest post "what is the best religion" turned up repleys like athemsim is the best and religions i have never heard of.

neo-

GEEEEEEEZ

youre not supposed to GO ALONG with my sarcasm!

youre supposed to backfire it....

but you didnt.....

im scared!

tell me.....you made it because it needed to be made?
why did it need to be made?
so i could laugh at you are your annoying, repeating, moving icon of neo bending backwards?

oh yeah, right after where it stops...HE FALLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

maybe thats you, being all super duper uber woober cool, and then falling on your butt with a rip in your shirt.

Originally posted by THENEO
Lilblam,

all good comments but in my mind what keeps me from the etheral is evil.

remember live=evil.

Yup, you're alive. You are flesh and blood. This automatically makes you serviec to self. Service to self is the cosmic equivalent of "evil", as it is a huge imbalance of energy and well, you only serve SELF. Therefore, in that sense, you are evil. Evil, or your service-to-self orientation, is what is preventing you from reaching higher (service to others) levels of reality. Simple, no? Maybe

I often wonder, if (pretend God is real in a religious sense) God created us, why couldn't he rule and control us, since he IS our creator? Well, when you create a work of art or something similar, do you do this to RULE it and control it, and have it do your will or face suffering? Let's say you could make an AI robot, would you instantly put it on a barren planet with others like him, show up once or twice every 2000 years, and if he somehow "forgets" that you showed up or doubts it, you send it to the junkyard? Does an infinite, perfect, self-sufficient being need to create tiny little weak flesh and blood humans etc and then have them believe in you (without actually having YOU show up and tell'em all about yourself), and send all who don't believe on faith alone to eternal damnation? Honestly, I'd advise God to find a better hobby!

But fine, let's say God has absolutely NOTHING better to do with his time, and being the "master" of a bunch of weak, stupid, insignificant creations pleases him. Of course, he does it because he "loves" his creation, in other words, he is ATTACHED to it like kids are to a stuffed Pikachu toy. If the Pikachu told the kid to go # himself, the kid cries his little eyes out. Our God is sensitive apparently. He also has a big ego, and is jealous. If you worship something OTHER than him, he gets upset and jealous (he says so himself) and punishes you. He asks, "HOW could you worship OTHER invisible entities when I'm YOUR ONLY GOD?" and then people would ask "Well how do we tell apart one invisible entity from another?" and God would say "If you were truly my servant, you'd know. Go to Hell!"

But let's assume all that is rational and fine. There's absolutely no problem with having a God who throws temper tantrums and sends groups of people to Hell when he's feeling abandoned or ignored... or not believed/worshipped. It however seems like he NEEDS our energy, or at least SOMETHING about the worshipping. He somehow requires that worship, and if there is a lack of it, he is somehow HURT by it. Maybe emotionally, maybe physically, we don't know. All we know is, you better worship the right invisible dude, or else it's Hell for you.

But isn't God simply serving HIMSELF when he demands obedience and worship? Do you NEED to rule over the goldfish in your fishtank? Do you WISH them to worship you? You being a human, so much above this, and having no need that could be fulfilled by those goldfish adequately...

Of course our God cannot be satisfied with himself, he needs us (less than goldfish in comparison) to worship HIM and obey HIS books!

And this is the all knowing creator of the universe? Something fails to add up there... maybe it's God. Maybe it's us. But something seems terribly wrong. Oh it must be us, since God is perfect and always right.

But it's only thanks to a service-to-self hierarchy of control. It all starts with the head honcho who calls himself God, then it's some angels and then prophets, then kings, then officers of the kings, and then finally the creme de la crop humans, and oh the rest of us. It seems like a huge hiararchy of CONTROL and domination, of rule and strict order or else punishment. All seems to SERVE the high master, and THEMSELVES. If Heaven and Hell weren't part of the Bible, how many people would follow it? If God said "You don't get any rewards after being good, nor punishments after being bad. The only thing you get is what you LEARN yourself, the knowledge you learn you get to KEEP, and that's about it."

How many religions would survive with such doctrines? No, they need to entice or scare people into worship, and retain that control. They are designed BY service to self entities FOR service to self entities who can be blackmailed and otherwise enticed. It's all about achieving pleasure and avoiding pain, that's about it. But maybe the universe is MORE than just that self-pleasing orientation?