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Satanists/Atheists attacking ATS?

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posted on Feb, 23 2004 @ 04:31 PM
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Originally posted by TekNo88
I don't think anyone should bash any religion here. You may have the right to post your opinion but its just not right when you come out and say god is a fraud and what not and make people who were happy with their religion, question their beliefs...it's just wrong.


lol.. questioning beliefs is "just wrong"? Come on, climb out of that box of right and wrong, as those who do not question beliefs and preconceptions are not progressing, but instead stuck.

Bashing doesn't do much good, as it just invokes a defensive stance in people. Logical discussion and questioning is a great way to get people to THINK and use their minds for once, instead of letting others think for them and just rely on faith for everything.




posted on Feb, 23 2004 @ 04:32 PM
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Originally posted by worldwatcher

Originally posted by TekNo88
I don't think anyone should bash any religion here. You may have the right to post your opinion but its just not right when you come out and say god is a fraud and what not and make people who were happy with their religion, question their beliefs...it's just wrong.



if your belief in your religion is so shallow that comments made by others causes you to question your religion then perhaps the problem is between you and your religion, not the people who share their thoughts.

I'm not speaking for myself, i'm speaking for many people. I know some question their beliefs because of some of the posts made on this site. I'm secure with my religion.



posted on Feb, 23 2004 @ 04:33 PM
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Originally posted by McGotti

Originally posted by Agent47

Originally posted by McGotti
and make people who were happy with their religion, question their beliefs...it's just wrong.

Well you came to the wrong place sir.....The sheep gathering area is on sundays at your local church.Obviously you have mistaken the purpose of this site!





Ah quit being so cynical cause you got molested by a priest. Its ok we can get you help you crochety monkey. Really its ok.


AHH I see we have another idiot on our hands...welcome



Nah Im not here to be an idiot an insult you. Im here to poke fun at how serious everyone is getting. Yeah its wrong he called you a satanist but its not like he went on TV and publicly insulted you. It was just a jab and you can laugh at it. If he called me a satanist Id say wheres my free goat blood then?



posted on Feb, 23 2004 @ 04:33 PM
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Originally posted by worldwatcher

Originally posted by TekNo88
I don't think anyone should bash any religion here. You may have the right to post your opinion but its just not right when you come out and say god is a fraud and what not and make people who were happy with their religion, question their beliefs...it's just wrong.



if your belief in your religion is so shallow that comments made by others causes you to question your religion then perhaps the problem is between you and your religion, not the people who share their thoughts.


Well belief is always shallow... that's why it's called belief. It's not based on facts or truths, it's just a conviction that something is true based on your own assumptions and desires for it to be true.

Of course, belief has a strong grip on weak-minded sheeple, as not only does it close their minds shut, but it makes them terrified of questioning their own beliefs, as they fear they will face "judgement" or "suffering". Poor people...



posted on Feb, 23 2004 @ 04:36 PM
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Originally posted by lilblam

Originally posted by TekNo88
I don't think anyone should bash any religion here. You may have the right to post your opinion but its just not right when you come out and say god is a fraud and what not and make people who were happy with their religion, question their beliefs...it's just wrong.


lol.. questioning beliefs is "just wrong"? Come on, climb out of that box of right and wrong, as those who do not question beliefs and preconceptions are not progressing, but instead stuck.

Bashing doesn't do much good, as it just invokes a defensive stance in people. Logical discussion and questioning is a great way to get people to THINK and use their minds for once, instead of letting others think for them and just rely on faith for everything.

I didn't say questioning beliefs was just wrong. Or at least I didnt mean it that way anyway. Some posts are just so extreme it makes some people just give up. What if there is a heaven and a hell? what if making some people give up on their religion could send them to hell? And please- Don't respond to this saying "Well what if there isn't a heaven and a hell".

[Edited on 2/23/2004 by TekNo88]



posted on Feb, 23 2004 @ 04:37 PM
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I'm not speaking for myself, i'm speaking for many people. I know some question their beliefs because of some of the posts made on this site. I'm secure with my religion.

Then what was the point of your original post???Why is questioning your beliefs wrong?? Actually i think that if you question your own beliefs you may be able to solidify you beliefs by exploring them deeply and not just blindly following your faith simply "because" you are a christain.To me,I dont really think god likes the blind followers as opposed to those that seek him out because of their own spirartual exploration and not just because thats what you parents told you to believe.

[Edited on 23-2-2004 by McGotti]



posted on Feb, 23 2004 @ 04:37 PM
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Originally posted by McGotti

Originally posted by Agent47

Originally posted by McGotti
GOD[im not an athiest or satanist] this NEO is an idiot!


But you sure are angry j ack a ss.


No sir im not..This NEO a$$hole called me a satanist!!! That to me is a huge insult and im greatly offended!!! How would you react if he called you a satanist??? would you thank him?? I wont thank him for insulting me sorry!


I don't know whether he called you anything or not, but simply having someone apply an assumed title to you does not alter reality, does it? If it pains you that someone may falsely think that you are something that you really aren't, then you may have to spend ALL your time convincing people of what you really are. Why bother?

Taking offense may also invoke unnecessary emotion that clouds your judgement and your ability to rationally argue your point, which may be represented in put downs and further senseless name calling.

Just trying to brighten up the situation


So if NEO has some reason to call you a Satanist, perhaps you can clear it up for him, if such is the case..



posted on Feb, 23 2004 @ 04:41 PM
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He called me a satanist by including the thread that I started in his opening post.[jesus was a black man]

To me,calling me a satanist is more of an insult then me calling someone an idiot.



posted on Feb, 23 2004 @ 04:44 PM
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Originally posted by McGotti
He called me a satanist by including the thread that I started in his opening post.[jesus was a black man]

To me,calling me a satanist is more of an insult then me calling someone an idiot.



I disagree. I already argued why I dont care if you call me a satanist because I can laugh it off. But you cant do that with someone questioning your intelligence. Im more offended by that than someone throwing the word satanist around. Its not like your an ardent deist or atheist.



posted on Feb, 23 2004 @ 04:45 PM
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Originally posted by TekNo88

Originally posted by lilblam

Originally posted by TekNo88
I don't think anyone should bash any religion here. You may have the right to post your opinion but its just not right when you come out and say god is a fraud and what not and make people who were happy with their religion, question their beliefs...it's just wrong.


lol.. questioning beliefs is "just wrong"? Come on, climb out of that box of right and wrong, as those who do not question beliefs and preconceptions are not progressing, but instead stuck.

Bashing doesn't do much good, as it just invokes a defensive stance in people. Logical discussion and questioning is a great way to get people to THINK and use their minds for once, instead of letting others think for them and just rely on faith for everything.

I didn't say questioning was just wrong. Some posts are just so extreme it makes some people just give up. What if there is a heaven and a hell? what if making some people give up on their religion could send them to hell? And please- Don't respond to this saying "Well what if there isn't a heaven and a hell".


Like I said, not only are they afraid to question their own beliefs, but it seems like you would be afraid to suggest that idea to them ALSO, because you entertain the possibility of that belief being true YOURSELF!

But you wouldn't know about such an idea as Hell until the organized religions didn't instill it in your mind, would you? If I say that there's a demon that tortures everyone after they die because some God came and told me to spread this info, how would you know the truth? Like I said, anyone can claim anything, but it doesn't make it any more true... even if billions fall for it.

So what do you do? How do you get out of this mess of contradictory messages and a plethora of opinions and beliefs that can drive a person insane? Well, believe NOTHING until you know for sure.

And yes, you CAN know if there's a Hell or a Heaven for sure. This requires knowledge of other information about reality and the world that will automatically lead to certain realisations and understandings, one of which being the nonexistance of Heaven and Hell in the form they are portrayed by religions. Why do I say "in the form they are portrayed" well because the interpretation and meaning of Heaven/Hell is not set in stone by any means. What is Heaven to one person is Hell to another.

I'd advise you worry not, and question everything. If you let fear and emotion interfere, it'll just get you stuck again.



posted on Feb, 23 2004 @ 04:48 PM
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Originally posted by Agent47

Originally posted by McGotti
He called me a satanist by including the thread that I started in his opening post.[jesus was a black man]

To me,calling me a satanist is more of an insult then me calling someone an idiot.



I disagree. I already argued why I dont care if you call me a satanist because I can laugh it off. But you cant do that with someone questioning your intelligence. Im more offended by that than someone throwing the word satanist around. Its not like your an ardent deist or atheist.


Well intelligence is relative. For example, if God did exist, then we're all idiots compared to God's intelligence, right? I'm an idiot in quantum physics compared to an average scientist in the field.

Anyways, it's relative.



posted on Feb, 23 2004 @ 04:49 PM
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Originally posted by lilblam
And yes, you CAN know if there's a Hell or a Heaven for sure. This requires knowledge of other information about reality and the world that will automatically lead to certain realisations and understandings, one of which being the nonexistance of Heaven and Hell in the form they are portrayed by religions.

I really dont think you CAN know for sure if there is a heaven or a hell, I think it would be more of a belief as you mentioned before. But you do make good points, and I understand what your saying.



posted on Feb, 23 2004 @ 04:50 PM
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Originally posted by McGotti
To me,calling me a satanist is more of an insult then me calling someone an idiot.


Hey, as long as you don't call me a christian, I couldn't care less.



posted on Feb, 23 2004 @ 04:50 PM
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Originally posted by lilblam
[Well intelligence is relative. For example, if God did exist, then we're all idiots compared to God's intelligence, right? I'm an idiot in quantum physics compared to an average scientist in the field.

Anyways, it's relative.


Great point friend.



posted on Feb, 23 2004 @ 04:50 PM
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NEO,
Maybe people are just fed up with what christianity refers to as " Dogma ", though in actuality is " forgery " of " free will ".
In essence I have attacked the Christian Doctrine with many subtle threads. Attacked to blantant, more so questioned its tennants.
Atlantic Magazine published an article in 1999 concerning the burst of new religions ( baby boomers of religion ), according to the NRM ( New Religious Movements ) thier were 9900 newly founded religions ( not sects, cult, nondenominationals ) and rising at a rate of 2-3 a day. If anything this is the biggest slap in Christianity face, is it is losing many members to this new trend. The article ended with a man ( forgot his title ) postulating that, " Christianity would be the biggest cult of the 20th century "

Deep



posted on Feb, 23 2004 @ 04:53 PM
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We all have our faith, and that's not a problem at all. We live in free countries (except for you wacky middle-easterners and suchlike), and attempting to undermine this diversity is unamerican by its very nature.

Live and let live. Eventually, we'll figure out which of us is right, and until then we can't prove jack.



posted on Feb, 23 2004 @ 04:56 PM
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Originally posted by TekNo88

Originally posted by lilblam
And yes, you CAN know if there's a Hell or a Heaven for sure. This requires knowledge of other information about reality and the world that will automatically lead to certain realisations and understandings, one of which being the nonexistance of Heaven and Hell in the form they are portrayed by religions.

I really dont think you CAN know for sure if there is a heaven or a hell, I think it would be more of a belief as you mentioned before. But you do make good points, and I understand what your saying.


Lemme give you a hypothetical example.

If you know for sure that there is no God, wouldn't that automatically mean that there is no Heaven or Hell, as those are creations of God?

How could you know for sure if there is a God? Well, just like the previous hypothetical example, certain understandings lead to other realisations automatically, as they are all connected and depend on one another for existance, like Hell depends on God to exist.

I'm not at this point saying anything for or against the existance of God, but the point is that you do NOT have to ascertain a specific thing to know whether it is true or not. Instead, you can understand something else that the other thing DEPENDS ON for existance, and you'd know for fact that the other thing also does NOT exist or DOES exist.

One must be careful to not draw false connections, however. For example, if I know that God doesn't exist based on knowledge of other things that led me to this understanding, would that also imply that Heaven/Hell do not exist? Well, in THIS case it would simply because Heaven and Hell are creations of God, and if there is no Creator, there is no creation.

This would then lead to the question, what would fall under the category of Heaven or Hell? For example, could our present human existance be relatively Heaven for say, some alien planet where great pain is experienced daily by all as natural part of their lives. Also, comparitively, we could be Hell in comparison to some possible utopia-like alien worlds.

Therefore, only the existance of a religions ultimate God-created Heaven and Hell would be terminated, not the relative interpretations.

EDIT: When I say if you eliminate the creator, the creation goes with it, that could be misunderstood. For example, if our existance is applied as a direct result of God creating us, if God didn't exist, neither could we. But this would simply mean that we CAN exist without God, if we could show that he does not.

But the question is then, could Heaven and Hell exist without the existance of God? Well, the religious versions could not, but relative versions in a sense yes, like that example with the alien worlds.

And no, even if I know that God doesn't exist, it by NO MEANS implies that the Chaos theory is somehow true. There is a higher power at work in all of existance, it's just not what religions would lead you to believe. But this is for the individual to understand and discover, not for me to preach


[Edited on 23-2-2004 by lilblam]



posted on Feb, 23 2004 @ 05:04 PM
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Originally posted by JohnMay

Originally posted by McGotti
I would have to disagree with you.I think its the christians that are the ones attacking ATS.



Damned, dirty ape. i think its people with closed minds that are attacking ATS. be f*cking tolerant of peoples rants, no matter how stupid they sound. i hope we all can agree on that.


Open minds? to a point I agree but hopefully not too open.



posted on Feb, 23 2004 @ 05:07 PM
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Well.
The fate of the world lies in our hands and we justify ourselves in such a manner as this.
Why do we argue over belief? Because to have an argument, there must in fact, be a correct solution?? If people expend so much energy debating, arguing, revisioning and rehashing a topic as old as the days- do you think that there is a meaning to be found amoungst the ruins of said debates and deliberations of opinion??

Do you people NOT believe you were (in mind, thought and your spirit) created?? Do you think you were mixed in a soup bowl of crud while the winds (created by?) of chance blew you into the being you are now??




posted on Feb, 23 2004 @ 05:12 PM
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I find it funny a christian thinks anyone who doesn't follow blindly is either satanist or atheist. Hahahahaha! You don't believe what the bible has, you go to hell! You don't think we were created by an all powerful invisable person that lives in the clouds! Satanist! Wait, don't believe in christian god, can't be satanist, for that is a christian god of evil.

Bless the Pebble People.



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