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Rabbi calls for hanging Arab children from trees

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posted on Mar, 30 2008 @ 02:59 PM
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Hey guys, I put my heart and mind to my previous post. But at time of discussion for possible solutions, you all left the battlefield!

... Did I really earn my peace now?

Did I give you that everlasting answer, and that political medicine, to that greatest problem of human history: To future and peace in "holy land"?

... Is that the real "road map" to peace in there?

Where is your will? Come on, I feel empty without not one decent response!




posted on Mar, 30 2008 @ 03:47 PM
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Children- despite religion, race, or color should never be brought into the worlds troubles and conflicts....Calling for the hanging of children??? That Rabbi should be hung...

Children are innocent and most of the time, the ones who are fighting against people have been manipulated by their families or government...

It's quite unfair to put blame on them for others mistakes...



posted on Mar, 30 2008 @ 04:49 PM
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An eye for an eye does leave everyone blind, and doesn't work towards a civilized society.

The real problem is religious extremism in any form. It can warm the human mind to do and say some horrible things.



posted on Mar, 30 2008 @ 05:05 PM
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reply to post by JanusFIN
 


What you are suggesting is a peacekeeping force made up from Asian countries? In my experiance, unless they are practicing buddhists, Orientals of any variety are in no ways different then anyone else. Now I'll agree they really don't have a dog in this fight, so there might be a way to make this work. I have my doubts but who knows.

I read somewhere, many years ago, and I don't remember where...it might have even been a work of fiction...anyway. The premise of the idea was declaring the city of Jeruselum an international city...not under the control of any one nation. The Swiss army was used in association with Jewish, Muslim, and Christian religious leaders of more moderate temper.



posted on Mar, 30 2008 @ 05:13 PM
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Shame on that Rabbi, why would he want to explode trees that way?



posted on Mar, 30 2008 @ 05:23 PM
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Israeli Arab marriages must drive these people nuts. There will never be peace in the middle east. Centuries of war and slaughter have sealed the mindsets. Armeggedon will be fought over it. It's hate impasses like this that make me want to turn in my badge of humanity. And we wonder why advanced civilizations don't make contact. Sad.



posted on Mar, 30 2008 @ 05:57 PM
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reply to post by PimpyMcgibbins
 



Children- despite religion, race, or color should never be brought into the worlds troubles and conflicts....Calling for the hanging of children??? That Rabbi should be hung...


Please go back to page 1 of this thread and read my post. No one called for anyone to be hung.



posted on Mar, 30 2008 @ 09:33 PM
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You are completely wrong and I will show how point by point.

"So let us make this clear ... your stance is, if someone is the child of someone who committed an atrocity, then they too should be punished for the crime they did not commit?"

NO, it is not. I never said or implied that; please get your facts and quotes straight.
What I said was it was,” Seems a perfectly natural reaction to want to kill the children of the murdering terrorists who killed 8 students in cold blood. "
It is. Now, that said, a reaction or statement, especially one made in grief or anger is NOT!! Taking said action.
It is venting anger and frustration.

"To put it in a way you can relate to ... If your relative (in this case mother or father) goes off and kills someone, then by this logic, that family/community has every right to grab all of your (mother/father's) descendants and hang them from a tree, and rightly so, even though you, your siblings, and other members of your family had nothing to do with the episode that your (family member) did. "

To put it in a way you can understand, NO!
It would be normal and understandable for the for the parents of a person murdered by a terrorist to want that persons child to be murdered in the same manner.
Now, that said, wanting or even stating it should be done is NOT the same as taking the action, again. It is venting anger and frustration.”

“See, make it personal to understand"

Actually, in posts we are NOT supposed to make it personal.
We ARE supposed to stick to the topic/post subject.

"This Rabbi, and anyone who agrees with him has terrorist desires. A terrorist strikes fear in their enemy by doing vile acts. Hanging children from a tree is a vile act on any standard of decency, and is quite reminiscent of the stories of Vlad the Impaler. "

A terrorist DOES commit vile acts, like a Palestinian murdering 8 boys in school, in cold blood. Ranting that something should be done is not a terrorist act, until it is done (like murdering 8 boys in school).
BTW, the vile terrorist acts committed by the Palestinian terrorists are far more vile (off topic) than anything ranted in pain.

"So imagine this. Chile and Guatemala have a war ... Scientologists are mass murdered as a result ... the UN decides to give them your state as compensation and you, your family, and your neigbors all must leave immediately and give up your home for those poor sufferers of a religious genocide."

It was never "their" land.
It was owned/controlled by England.
England gave the land to the UN to make a country.
If you want to refer to Gaza or the Gaza strip-it was owned/controlled by Egypt until it was lost to Israel in the 6 day war.(link on request, but it is a matter of record)
Also, they were not being bombed and invaded UNTIL they attacked Israel, and OMFG, Israel "RESPONDED"-how dare they.

"one of the CoS'ers state that your children should be hung from trees to make an example and encourage submission to their ownership of the land. "

Well, NO! Please check your facts.
That statement was made after a Palestinian terrorist murdered 8 boys in cold blood.
What makes those terrorists children so special they should not meet the same fate as their father did to the Israeli children?

"It is a horrible mess the U.N. made out of that area, after an atrocious killing of more than just Jews, but millions of other people from various nations and groups during WWII. "

Off topic, the topic is a rabbi wanting the same fate for Palestinian children as Jewish children.

"If you don't want to see the truth of the situation, then you are doing history no justice, and it is destined to repeat itself in a different way. Just as all Jews are not Zionists, all Islamic believers are not radicals"

Yes, the truth, that a Palestinian terrorist murdered 8 children in cold blood and a rabbi called for the same thing for the murder's children (remembering that his saying it would be good and fair is NOT the same as doing it)
You use the word "ZIONIST"-do you know what it means (I find it used all the time by people who don't have a clue-it just sounds like a good insult.



posted on Mar, 31 2008 @ 01:33 AM
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The Egyptians, Syrians and Lebanese bring it on themselves for allowing their society to support terrorist activities.

If they didn't attack the Israelis, they wouldn't get decked.



posted on Mar, 31 2008 @ 06:30 AM
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The rabbi who made this comment is an known and acknowledged nut in Israel. He's been investigated numerous times for saying completely ridiculous things, and no one takes him seriously.

Check out: Haaretz

To debate what this man says as being somehow indicative of how many Israelis' feel is to equate the Westboro "Baptist" nutters with just decent, normal Baptists everywhere. It's just one nutjob's opinion.



posted on Mar, 31 2008 @ 07:15 AM
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The article is completely misleading.

"Killing the sons of terrorists" in revenge for terrorism isnt the same as "killing arab children". They may amount to the same thing, but the criteria are different.

Another point is the source of the information... a website which claims to be from "occupied Iraq". A bone of contention there wouldnt you say?

If the rabbi did indeed make the comment, then its a step too far but its wrong to characterize the entire Israeli nation by the words of a single man.



posted on Mar, 31 2008 @ 07:35 AM
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reply to post by seagull
 


Swiss army is involved many times when world needs a secure its non allied stance. But because they already are making the watch in Vatican, I see that taking Jerusalem to their hands is first too big challenge for small country, and second, they are still Christians.

I think the same option carefully before.

In buddist country religion has very different meaning in daily life than in west. I have witness that even peoples are not carrying its marks, or behave as its "true believers", education of buddist idealism is leading their acts of behave, and in children, they learn different kind of deep respect for greater causes and learnings. So its a part of nation more deeply, than we separate religion from our nations, and our way of thinking more widely.

They also look different as race, and that gives another chance to troops, because peoples doesnt compare them to past soldiers by outlook, and they dont know what to expect from them... Living in peace after long war, needs learning from beginning, without assumptions from past, from any sides.



[edit on 31-3-2008 by JanusFIN]



posted on Mar, 31 2008 @ 07:37 AM
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reply to post by jpm1602
 


Dont loose your hope, from bottom is only one way, and that is up.

Its always good to find bottom, then you know that its the worst.



posted on Mar, 31 2008 @ 07:43 AM
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reply to post by mrmonsoon
 




It was owned/controlled by England


One of the most miss leading wisdoms in western world: Every road leads to Rome.

How I put it is like this: From Rome all roads leads to London, and from London all roads leads to Washington DC.

Its a triangle with center, where we all can see the eye: Illuminati.



posted on Mar, 31 2008 @ 07:53 AM
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reply to post by 44soulslayer
 


Many your comments doesnt deserve a dissent opinion, but last do.


If the rabbi did indeed make the comment, then its a step too far but its wrong to characterize the entire Israeli nation by the words of a single man.


It reminds from words of Irans president, when wrongly translated words of him is still widely known: "Israel should wipe out of map."

What he really said was: "Israel should wipe out from book (time) of history." And there is a great difference.

IF is a very good question, witch is already very wisely challenged by Djarums in this threat. And of course Rabbi is just a one man: But if soldier say that war is coming, or car salesman say the same words, there is always a great difference, what we call belief.

[edit on 31-3-2008 by JanusFIN]



posted on Mar, 31 2008 @ 08:51 AM
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It reminds from words of Irans president, when wrongly translated words of him is still widely known: "Israel should wipe out of map."

What he really said was: "Israel should wipe out from book (time) of history." And there is a great difference.


Lol .. and the big difference is this: In the first example, he would be calling for the destruction of the state of Israel. In the second example, which is what he actually said, he says that Israel should be not only destroyed, but all records of it should be removed from the collective history of mankind. Hmm.. I reckon what he actually said is worse than the botched interpretation, heh.

Where do I get this? It is simple, really .. you can't remove something which exists from history without also removing it from present; because if you do not remove it from the present, one millisecond after you have "cleared history of all traces" a bunch of new traces would already be created, the history books would be logging fresh entries so to speak. So wiping from history is also wiping from present, because present becomes past instantly..



posted on Mar, 31 2008 @ 09:27 AM
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reply to post by mrmonsoon
 


I don't think you understood the 'make it personal' concept. I did not say, make personal insults to each other or make this a personal sniping thread.

What I said was, when trying to understand a situation, (use empathy) make it personal, as in, put yourself (in thought) in a similar situation and see things from both points of view.


It is quite neanderthal to want to kill the children of a murderer. I couldn't even fathom that way of thinking, for I think it just might be a bit mentally instable. Your father kills my father, I hold no ill will towards you nor your mother, nor your grandfather. I also don't want your father to die for his actions, but spending his life in solitary confinement and living a punishment is much more of a consequence to the person who committed the atrocity than ending their life, and therefore making their punishment swift.


If I had 10 children, and a man killed them who had 10 children, I can honestly say I would not want or even have the slightest inclination to have his children punished in any form. In fact, I would feel sorry for them as well as my own pain, for they have to live their lives knowing their father has taken so many innocent lives.


It has already been said, that this was based on rhetoric ... but that rhetoric is in very poor taste, and should not have been said.


No, sir, I will not find it acceptable or understandable for anyone to wish anyone else dead, regardless of their actions. Does this mean I feel there is no situation where it is ok to kill? No, if my life is being threatened, I will strike to save my life and the life of my loved ones. If I was murdered, I wouldn't want blood on my loved ones hands from them retaliating, nor would my loved ones want blood on my hands. I am not completely in control of my passions, yes, I would want to rough the guy up, but not kill them, if say my wife or child was killed ... I may wish they have a miserable existence in solitary confinement with only bread and water for the rest of their lives. But I would hope that the person's family (child) would live a great life and hopefully be a honest, contributing member of the world.


I don't call venting and anger an excuse for wishing someone who did you no ill will's death. It just isn't valid reasoning. Look at the guy Cheney shot in the face, he didn't turn and give an eye for an eye so to speak, he apologized to Cheney of all insane things.


I think if you feel that if your child was murdered you would want to murder or have murdered that peson's child, maybe you should seek out a counselor to deal with those anger issues. Not saying you would feel that way, but you sympathize very heavily towards this though process, so it would lead one to believe that you would consider yourself feeling the same way. For your own sake, and the sake of your family, I would definitely consider not wanting such retaliation, for the surviving members of your family would not benefit from your consequences brought forth by a retaliation, especially in such a manner. For one that murders a person's child in vengence of their child being murdered become equal to the level of evil and moral corruption of the original criminal.

You could very well be a very well-balanced person, playing devil's advocate in defense of the statement. So, no, I am not making claims that you are such a way, but only that 'if' you were, to please seek a shoulder to lean on for yourself.



You made a statement, that came off as very racist. You singled out Palestinian terrorists ... when in fact ANY terrorist act is vile. Do not allow prejudice to cloud your judgment. Any one who willingly takes the life of another not in self-defense is a vile creature. Any one who wishes such a harm, especially on children has a vile mind. There are sick people of every nationality and in every nation, including Israel and Palestine. Singling out one race or religion is not denying ignorance.


In the same respect, the U.S.A. was never our land. It was and is the Native Americans (Indians) land. There were here first, but we killed and used biological warfare (blankets with smallpox) to steal the land from them. Even then it wasn't our land, it was European land, that we then said, nope, it is ours now. We technically should be serving the Queen just as Canada. I bet your argument that it was never their land would not go over well if someone used it on us to place Palestine on our land somewhere by the U.N.

You say the land issue isn't part of this, but it is the root of all the violence. If your girlfriend smacked you, does it not matter to you why she is mad enough at you to strike you? I suppose not by your argument.


Yes, I do know what a Zionist is. It is a religious extremist who wishes to force the state of Israel and the rebuilding of the Temple to bring back G-d to this Earth. They in fact ignore Judaism and its laws to further their own agenda. They do not want to wait for G-d to make things happen, but go against God to make it happen by their human ways.

Here is an example of a Rabbi speaking out against zionism and the state of Israel coming to existence by humans, not G-d.



When God sent the Jewish nation into exile 2000 years ago we accepted this lovingly from God and when God told us that we are forbidden to try to return and make our own entity, to form our own state, we accepted God’s decree and we are waiting patiently for the day when ultimately God Himself without any human intervention will end this exilic period and all of the nations of world together will go up and serve God in harmony and peace. This is what we are waiting for and until that day we refuse to go along with this movement called Zionism. We refuse to go along with people who are rebelling against God, people who are misrepresenting God and his Torah.

Zionism, formed 100 years ago is a movement of heretics, people who refuse to accept God’s word, who refuse to put God in the equation of what happens on this world. They said we were sent out of Israel because of our physical weakness. This is false. This is rebellion against God. ...

Our hearts pain, our hearts suffer when we see what is being done to the Palestinian people, we are humiliated by what is being done by Zionists. Why must it be done in the name of Judaism? Why, when we have been living together with the Palestinian people and with the arab people for hundreds of years must we be blamed for the actions of Zionists? That’s wrong! ...

The Jewish people are forbidden to have a state. And not only is it against the Torah it is called “anti-Semitism”.


neturei karta international - Jew united against zionism

I wanted to quote the whole thing, but I know I would get busted (or reported) for excessive quotation. This is something I use a lot when people don't understand why a Israel shouldn't exist, even by Jewish standards, that can't understand the difference between Judaism and Zionism, and those who think that Jewish people and Arabic people do not get along. It is all a lie brought to you by slanted news and propaganda. There are Jewish people living in every country of the world in peace. When people speak out against Zionism, they make no attack on Jewish people, just against a religious extremist group. Zionists, Radical Islamists, Radical Christians ... they are all one in the same. Crazy people who hide behind a molested version of a religion to commit atrocious acts, then falsely claim their religious texts gives them a base to do so.

Wake up and see the truth, any one speaking of murder and violence are not part of the religion they claim, but a demented individual or group that has twisted phrases and corrupts meanings things for their own sick desire.



posted on Apr, 1 2008 @ 10:45 AM
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Originally posted by FreeThinkerIdealist
*snip*


Ah but the problem is, wolves begat wolves. If you kill the man who killed your children, will his children grow up to love you, or will they grow up seeking revenge on you and whatever is left of your family line?

Will a terrorists children grow up to be liberal pacifists?

If not, it just means you are passing the responsibility onto your sons, because your children will have to kill his children in twenty years time, to prevent his children from killing them.



posted on Apr, 1 2008 @ 12:21 PM
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reply to post by runetang
 


Time and Place has great difference: Time is spirit, Place is earthly.

I am not here to support Iran, or Palestinians, or any other who use distortion as their political weapons. Its only fair to listen the real words, hear the real meanings, ant like many cases, greatest confusions comes from greatest miss understandings: That what ATS is really about.

We all try to see above our understanding, right? To make opinions, you should read and think carefully, always. If you listen only what is distorted, or what shows only from other side of view, you can not rise above the issue, but just staying inside in those.

Motions run all the time, as like our calculating brains, those lists of facts we support. Many times is difficult to see what is driving us forward, but both are equally important. In this reply, the whole article, and way our talks was heading, just remembers me from that dilemma and distortion: made mostly by main stream media. There is still a difference.

What I hear from Iran Presidents point of view, was that Israel is made by distortion of history, and in light of its true history, he hoped that it would never happened. He talk from its history, what should not never happened. But, like I see it, its only a talk, but rised many times to headlines with distorted translation, and by taking those word out of its true contex.

I see it happen every day in US "FreeWrestling" Elections.



posted on Apr, 1 2008 @ 03:36 PM
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reply to post by C.C.Benjamin
 


unfortunately, you think the fruit does not fall far from the tree ... but I say to you, just because my father is a racist, does not make me so. Just because my grandparents were abusive, does not mean my mother laid a finger on me.


You cannot judge a child by the parents.



Would you want your kids judged by your actions? Your mistakes and shortcomings be owned by them? What about you owning the ones of your parents, even ones you may not know of? No one is perfect, we all have skeletons in our closet, some have better security on that closet than others.



I say, don't even kill the father, punish him in a way he will have to remember his crime and know he is deprived of his freedoms because of his violation on humanity. Make him serve his sentence for the rest of his life, don't give him the easy way out.


Just as you should not point the finger at the child for the crime, the child should not point the finger of the victim's survivor for their parent's actions.



What you are saying is, if your father killed someone, you would want to kill that victim's children.


What a sad way to view the world.


If you then say, it is not you who feels that way, but you are placing the thoughts into people's heads that only people other than yourself and people like you are like that, then you are no different than an Archie Bunker.

If you are just saying it as a possibility, then I say, it is just as likely the children of the victim become murderous and bigoted more so than the perpetrator's children. That innocent bystanders are just as likely to be the ones who commit the next atrocity, as well as someone on the other side of the planet.



Every person is equal, and should be judged on their own merits. Just because someone is born in a certain country, with a certain skin color, or a certain religion, or have relatives who have committed crimes does not have any representation of what that person is or will do.


If you really feel that the children of a murderer will be a murderer, then show me the statistics to prove such a wild claim.

Show me statistics of how many children that have had parents put to death by the penal system have tried to hunt down the executioner, have committed violent acts on the prison, guards, or arresting officers.

I haven't heard anything about the relatives of serial killers attacking the system.

So, unless you come up with more than a couple cases, then your un-based claims of bias are irrelevant to me.


The thought of retaliation is primitive. It is also illegal. Let the courts, juries, and judges lock them away to suffer in solitude for the rest of their days. Justice may be blind, but at least it is intelligent enough not to punish innocent family members that were not involved, just because they are related.



Don't let hate nor prejudice rule your heart, it will only destroy you inside, and it doesn't wear well on the sleeve, either.



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