Confused about the purpose of ATS

I don't mean to come across as a victim because I am not. I personally have never posted anything that would require "Proof" nor would I ever.
It has become glaringly obvious to me that you will get nowhere by
revealing anything of a sensative nature on a forum such as this.
The truth, I'm sure, is a bit much to handle,and would probly not fit into most people's heads. And I am familiar with what happens when you
challenge someone's deeply held and firmly planted beliefs. I am sure all of you have heard the saying but it bears repeating.

All truth goes thru three stages,
First, it is ridiculed.
Second, it is violently opposed.
Third, it is accepted as self evident.

From the interactions I have seen so far from several (not all, but too many)people ATSers as a whole are stuck in the first two stages.
I will promise you this,
There WILL come a day very soon when the veil will be lifted from the eyes of humanity and all will be known.All questions will be answered, and everythin you thought you knew and every deeply held firmly planted belief you ever had will come screeching to a violent halt and there will be no shortage of people screeming "WHY DID NO ONE TELL US"?and the answer,of course is "They have been telling you for over half a century but no one would listen"ALOT
of the answers you will hear will sound familiar and thats because there are people TRYING to tell you the answers NOW but far too many will not
hear of it untill GOD him/herself rides a bolt of lightning down out of the sky and hands us the answers on stone tablets.

The problem is not skepticism, but pseudoskepticism.

A skeptic requires proof before he or she will accept an assertion as fact, however, they will also refrain from making assertions of their own (such as the assertion that another assertion is false) unless they have evidence of their own to support it. That means that a true skeptic doesn't label something a fake, a hoax, a lie, a fabrication, or an embellishment unless they have definitive evidence to support that statement. By the same token, however, they will not accept an assertion (such as the assertion that one was visited or abducted by aliens) as fact without proof. The best they can say is that it is possible, but that they "don't know."

Unfortunately, many people dislike "not knowing." They want a side to choose, or firm ground beneath their feet - not the uncertainty of unsubstantiated, yet nevertheless persistent, possibility. Those people are not practicing skepticism, but rather pseudoskepticism. They take their lack of commitment to an assertion further, by making their own assertions without proof: that something is a hoax, a lie, a fabrication, a misinterpretation, or an embellishment. In many instances, so vigorous and passionate will their tenacious attachment to their pseudoskepticism be, that they will resort to disrespectful and uncivil treatment of those making the assertions with which they disagree. That isn't what a true skeptic does. All a true skeptic can do, unless they have proof, is politely say that they "don't know" one way or another.

When people treat posters that way without evidence, they're actually violating the terms of service they agreed to when they joined ATS, and mechanisms exist by which users can report such behavior. Take this thread, entitled Courtesy Is Mandatory, for instance. In it a mod points out that the TOS state:

2) Behavior: You will not behave in an abusive and/or hateful manner, and will not harass, threaten, nor attack anyone.

So in answer to the OP's question: the purpose of ATS is the civil and courteous discussion of alternative topics. On the other hand, ATS is fortunate enough to have as constituents of its membership a large number of experienced researchers (professional and lay alike) who are adept at spotting and proving hoaxes, misinterpretations, misinformation, and other erroneous assertions or reports. The thing is, unless there is proof, users are required to afford you courtesy, respect, and civility at all times. If they don't, then you should report their behavior.

I hope that answers your question.

I truly believe this boils down to courtyess discussion. We are a family in my guise. Some will be haters, many other listeners. It is a discussion of alternative theory an happenings. We know who our true pepes are. It's late, I'm tired. But I hope the sentiment is read.

thank you, thank you, thank you Cbass!!! I have been with this site for a long time and I couldn't agree with you more. I'm not into the stars and flags and points thing here. In fact, that's the reason I rarely try and say anything, because if it's not factual or if you can't back it up with sources and websites you'll be cut to pieces. I've often wanted to jump into some very interesting conversations, but have been turned off by some less than considerate members. I love this site and visit every day, but it seems as if some members are here only to fight with and contradict others. Thanx for saying something I've wanted to say for a long time....

I was baptised on ATS to believe you should keep questioning until you find the truth. Firstly, when I first joined ATS at 17, I believed in pretty much eveything and accepted it as fact.

I never wanted evidence.

The older I got, now 22, sceptical is the way I conduct my business on ATS. However, this sceptical approach has lead me to being cynical towards certain topics because the majority of theories are so "far out" and defy logic.

What some members fail to understand is I do my own research. I've studied majority of the theories relating to the New World Order i.e why I am the FSME for the New World Order for ATS. My mind is made up once I've calculated my research and come to a conclusion.

Sometimes, like others, I will continue posting in a thread in which I've made it clear I don't believe or support the OP's view. Why? Because sometimes common sense needs to be applied and members will not accept it, even if you back up evidence to prove they are wrong. Balanced views are ALWAYS needed.

Sceptics and conspiracy theorists are the same breed, both have values and beliefs that will not be changed or be influenced by the counter-part.

[edit on 30-3-2008 by infinite]

I agree OP

It's not so much the skeptics in general, it's those that simply don't move on or shift the focus onto a nitpick session. The skeptics are needed but one or two will carry on needling long after it's been made clear that their requirements aren't being met and others wish to continue the thread anyway.

They should move off the topic as soon as they have established that it's bunk. If I wasn't happy with a thread and my evidence criteria wasn't being met, I would make a post explaining why I disagreed and try to bow out gracefully, leaving the reader to decide for themselves.

In the name of balance, some "believers" of whatever are not without innocence in the saying stupid stuff department or being condescending.

I take your side however, simply because ATS being the home of "Alternative Topics", I wanna talk about alternative stuff. I know what the mainstream's stance is, I want to explore alternative ideas and theories... and that means subjects that don't have a lot of solid proof.

People are here for different reasons. For me, its purely for entertainment. In my mind, and I'm sure others, this is purely a fantasy website where people wildy speculate, post fake photos and videos.

This of it as an online version of the Weekly World News. Thats the paper in the supermarket that once had a cover pic of George Bush shaking hands with an alien.

I agree with infinite about the other side being needed. I have been in threads where I've posted verifiable information, with sources, and been totally ignored because it wasn't what the people in the thread wanted to hear. Or in other threads where it took two pages for anyone to even acknowledge the information I was posting and GRUDGINGLY admit that I was or might be right. And this was with evidence backing me up in every post. People on BOTH sides of the discussion read what they want to read, and they don't want to let facts get in the way of their beliefs.

I do not feel the same way that the OP feels. People require proof on some subjects. And there is nothing wrong with laughing and skepticism when it comes to the subjects of transforming politicians on youtube. Or lizard people taking office and unable to conceal their identity for the duration of a sound clip. OP if you have something to say just say it and ignore the irrational people. But if you think it's irational for a couple people to say, hey good story no proof at all then it's just that. Well welcome to the interweb.

reply to post by cbass


IF you had that kind of information, why bother to convince anyone who need the so-called real "Proof". Simply post in any forum you encounter, open a blog or website and place the message on it. Reply anyone who is sincerely interested. If you want to take it further and can afford the time and money simply go to other mediam channels. It's not like you would save mankind if you convinced the ATS community so don't bother too much if only one community on internet does not believe you or "eat you up". After all those ETs who "invited" you to that exotic place most likely never heard of ATS anyhow, so they won't be pissed and won't care if 99.999% of the ATS replyers are eating you up.

reply to post by cbass


I agree and completely understand where cbass is coming from. It's not the debate thats annoying. It's the people who get nasty, rude, very personal, and abusive during the debates that makes me not what to join many thread discussions.

There are many times when I have been reading threads where someone has a theory or idea, or picture to discuss, and people instead of simply debating the topic are attacking the person, there are to many times I have been reading threads and people are out right calling people "stupid" in so many terms. Just because someone doesn't agree with your thoughts does not make them un-intelligent.

reply to post by AceWombat04


Thank you so much, seriously!
That really does clear things up a bit.
I have never heard of a pseudo-skeptic.
And from the definition you provided it is all clear now what I have been witnessing. I have NO problem with skeptics, everyone should be intelligent enough to be one,
however, it's these darn pseudo-skeptics that are definately afraid of reality and having their deeply held firmly rooted beliefs from being pulled up by the root and thrown into the fire.
I trust you won't take offence that I went behind your back and looked up the definition of pseudo-skeptic because I wanted solid proof of your claim regarding the definition.Gotta be sceptical!

thanks again, and by the way for everyone out there replying to this post
I do not mean to imply that I know anything of intrest to the A.T.S community,my anology was purely hypothetical.

For me ATS is very much like life, just faster.

The most of us will know the expressions "swings & roundabouts" or "what comes around goes around"

On ATS you can start a post or just reply to a post, as soon as you press submit you are out on a limb regarding what those who read your post and reply may say.

For me I tend not to get too emotional over other peoples replies, but I do read between the lines of what they are saying, you can pick up tit bits of knowledge even from the most damning replies and just bathe in the replies that either agree with your post or actually educate you further, as do many posts on ATS do for me.

There are so many unknown scholars here on ATS, unknown to themselves and the world, but it does not stop them, me , you or us from saying our bit.

So we get corrected from time to time or actually learn something new, take the negative replies / attacks as an impetus to move forward and learn more.

Wolfie

ATS is great in its own way, here you can join and discuss anything your heart desires. You say you have a story, post it here, the Alien and UFO board. There are a lot of forums here. Enjoy yourself here.

Yes you will see a major increase of people that come here and post false stories, then when asked to show proof or hold an intelligent discussion they resort to hateful name calling, mostly they are kids, who want to get attention.

I have been here a while, I have seen ATS change for the better and worse. Like people have said, we need to be hard on people, because we have been fooled before. But we have also got better at handling situations here that we mostly do not like.

You don't have to reply to every topic, just reply when you want to. You will learn that in the long run.

Who's On - There are 244 registered members and 2,680 guests browsing AboveTopSecret.com domains, with 135 guests loading pages right now.

Here is a page of ATS that you should bookmark: ATS Boards

Welcome to ATS, BTS and PTS. Enjoy your stay, and have fun.

IF!!!,
I were to be visited by a race of beings not publicly known of with technology far exeeding anything that we are publicy capable of,
and taken to the far reaches of our galaxy to be witness to life supporting planets that are obviously not public knowledge, and IF these beings
gave me(along with MANY others) an urgent message for the whole of humanity, BUT, left me with no physical "PROOF" of said contact,what am I
expected to do with this information????

"IF" being the key word. If is like standing on the top of a wall, not knowing which way to jump. Do you jump to one side because of belief? Or knowledge! Belief is something someone told you, knowledge, is knowing for yourself.

what am I
expected to do with this information????

First thing I would suggest is question the HELL out of it!!! And I do mean that, exactly as I typed it!! Too many people take anything and everything they hear, see, or read to be the gospel. Your standing on the top of that wall and someone tells you the distance to the ground is only 3 feet and its okay to jump, but another group tells you its 300 feet, and not to do it. Who do you listen to? Simple, look for your self.

I know as a fact that there are in deed "Other Powers" that exist in our reality. Look around with open eyes and you can see the proof for yourself. But, since theses other forces make every effort to hide their existence from us one can hardly begin to realize their true intentions, no matter what they say, or miracle they perform with there high technology. And it is my greatest fear that this is continuing today simply because the world is not changing fast enough, and is following the same path to self destruction.

No matter what ATS's stated mission is, it may be too little, too late.......

reply to post by cbass


When someone presents unique or unusual information before a skeptical public one must be prepared to offer some semblance of proof if one wants to be believed. If you are "preaching to the choir" you will not be expected to present any proof. ATS is made up of skeptics and believers and the receptiveness of your information will be mixed accordingly. That's the nature of reality. So my word of advice to those who will listen:if you are ever abducted, taken to far-off planets, shown unusual things, and then are expected to relay any messages to mankind, don't forget to ask your captors for some type of proof to take back with you. If they are sincerely interested in helping mankind, then this is a small favor to grant. For those who are familiar with Bliblical tales, don't forget what happened to Moses when he was sent to free the Israelites in Egypt. He was granted enough magical powers by his God to overwhelm the disbelief of the Pharoah whose magicians were no match for Moses. So always arm yourself with some proof if you want others to believe you.

reply to post by cbass

I think it's a wise idea that you state in your first post that you have no evidence what so ever. That makes things very clear for people.

Second: I do think you are right. Because people have different believes that doesn't mean they have to go and be vicious to each other. And unfortunatly (although we have very good mods) I still see to much people just trying to be mean.

It's good to question things in a civil way, but things surely could be nicer here for people who step out with their experiences. We should never forget that an experience of someone is not our experience. What someone else sees may not be what we see ourselfs, but it's a good thing to just listen and not judge.

Originally posted by cbassYou all claim to be truth seekers but from where I stand the majority of ATSers are deathly afraid of what the truth may actually be,
AMEN!

This is really an intellectually honest assessment of the main source of conflict here at ATS. Everything depends on whose truth you are dealing with.

Some are afraid to admit UFO's exist but many are afraid to admit they don't.

Some are afraid to admit Secret Societies exist, or at least admit what they may or may not do. Others are afraid to admit they don't exist or at least not for the nefarious reasons perceived.

So whatever the forum you are in, "truth" depends on your world view and construct. "Truth" is imagined to be universal and irrefutable but we all know it's not. Perception is everything when it comes to "truth".

Hell even scientists don't always agree on the facts.

I guess you can roll with it or go else where. I hope you stay.

What it is is that people here can start to spot a fake when its posted... Posting something far out with no proof is ok and will get people to read and maybe believe you on your word alone but when you come on here with a farfetched story with no proof and only give half your story then say stay tuned for more info that usually rings to us as you trying to get people to keep coming back to your thread. You see I dont read everything and believe it right away and I dont read everything and automatically call it trash I use my own judgement and learn from my experiences. If you have no proof thats ok come out and tell your story and get your message out do what you think is right and people will listen and maybe even believe if what you are saying makes sense or starts to make sense in the future they'll remember that you said what was going to happen. Your "job" was to get the message out not force people to believe you so get it out there and people will ask for proof some will see the real proof around them.

Come on here and say half your story and have no proof and come back then post the rest after many pages and it starts to look questionable. If you do your job and get your message out then you can have a clear consciousness and know that you did a service to the beings who asked you to try to get the message out.

All I know is if I had dirt on the government and was going to blow the lid off of it I'd have all my ducks in a row before my first post and Id have all the proof I needed before saying anything and I would post it all over the net and even media outlets that would listen yes I run the risk of being called a hoaxster like the ISAAC CARET or a crazy like Lazaar thing but you know what I would make sure I got the message out and do my part. Coming out here and putting stories with no proof will get a lot of naysayers but get your stuff together and you dont need to worry about them because the few that will listen and heed your message will be the ones who will keep your message going.

To the OP, I would have to agree with you on many points, but I don't feel it is the proof or no proof that people post that really matters.

What matters on ATS is that we, you, I and everyone else can prove it to themselves somehow.

Everyone in life is always searching for that something special, most people don't know what it is but they keep searching.

What is special to one person may be a joke to another, so in this world of illusion we live, I think being burned repeatedly, by many frauds helped to create a world of skeptics.

So if the truth ever is found will it ever be noticed? Most likely not because people go by their 5 senses which can always be deceived, instead of their gut feeling.

I do feel that people are starting to use their 6th sense and this is what will guide the masses to what they seek.



[edit on 30-3-2008 by Realtruth]