Wow, even Baker is calling out this administration. There may be some hope for us yet. It's nice to see something positive in the news today. I hope this isn't small talk the doesn't result in more exposure. Good post

Good to see an administrator who understands the very simple concept of Habeas Corpus.

Though isnt the thread title somewhat misleading?

Originally posted by 44soulslayer

Though isnt the thread title somewhat misleading?

In what way? I specifically mentioned it was changed in the OP, and for good reason, as the loss of habeus corpus is a monumental shift in our fundamental Constitutional rights, and this is exactly what Baker says has happened.

It is much more important than even the fact that these former Secretaries of State have come out againts Gitmo and an attack on Iran (both no-brainers to sane diplomats).

[edit on 29-3-2008 by gottago]

I interpreted that the fmr secretary of state agreed with the concept of holding without trial.

Originally posted by 44soulslayer
I interpreted that the fmr secretary of state agreed with the concept of holding without trial.

I see how you interpreted that, but the title of the post reflects the reality that Baker acknowledges, since he is bringing it up and disagreeing with it--that habeus corpus has been suspended for US citizens.

This is an important statement for him to make; no one at his level has ever acknowledged this--and frankly I'm amazed this post hasn't gotten more attention. This is a fundamental Constitutional right--the right to a speedy trial--that he states has been lost.

Though he disputes that this is a good idea--"I have a great deal of difficulty understanding, etc."--he is not actually challenging that it has happened. He is challenging its wiseness as policy, but ultimately he acquieses to it.

The important point here is the simple fact that he acknowledges this as a given.

Well this is pretty astounding news. Baker has been the right-hand man of the Bush family for at least 30 years, if not longer. It's amazing that he would break his silence and criticize any Bush family member. And Kissinger joining in, well that should tell us all something; that some key political types have had it with this administration and are very much afraid for their country.

This is not aimed at anyone in particular, but...I'm not sure which I'm more shocked at: Baker and Kissinger saying what they did, or that so many people didn't know that we no longer have Habeus Corpus, perhaps the most fundamental of all rights to freedom and equality.
There were a number of threads on ATS at the time when it was suspended, but most people went to sleep and responded with ridicule to those who said that we no longer had Habeas Corpus.
Habeas Corpus goes back to 1215, at Runnymede, when the Magna Carta was signed by King John the Jerk.
This sets human rights back 1,000 YEARS and is draconian and insanity.