Ex-Terror Detainee Says U.S. Tortured Him

Ex-Terror Detainee Says U.S. Tortured Him

www.cbsnews.com

A German resident held by the U.S. for almost five years tells 60 Minutes correspondent Scott Pelley that Americans tortured him in many ways - including hanging him from the ceiling for five days early in his captivity when he was in Kandahar, Afghanistan.

Even after determining he was not a terrorist, Murat Kurnaz says the torture continued. Kurnaz tells his story for the first time on American television this Sunday, March 30, at 7 p.m. ET/PT.

(visit the link for the full news article)


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VIDEO: Ex-Detainee says US tortured him

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[edit on 3/29/2008 by biggie smalls]

There is no justification for torture, "terrorist" or not. They are still human beings and deserve to be treated as such.

Kurnaz, an ethnic Turk born and raised in Germany, went to Pakistan in late 2001 at age 19 to study Islam and wound up in Pakistani police custody. It was three months after 9/11, and Kurnaz says the U.S. was offering bounties for suspicious foreigners. Kurnaz says he was "sold" to the Americans for $3,000 and brought to Kandahar as terrorist suspect.

So...the Pakistanis captured him, framed him for terrorism (more or less) as he was an outsider, and then sold him to the US military. Nice.

He claims American troops tortured him in Afghanistan by holding his head underwater, administering electric shocks to the soles of his feet, and hanging him suspended from the ceiling of an aircraft hangar and kept alive by doctors. "Every five or six hours they came and pulled me back down and the doctor came," he recalls. "He looked into my eyes. He checked my heart and when he said 'okay,' then they pulled me back up," he tells Pelley.

Sounds like torture to me.

Can anyone defend this kind of behavior on the part of our military? Will you defend torture and those who do it for the sake of "information" and "national security?"

I had no problem defending Bush's war immediately after 911, and even intended to sign up for the Marines. I was involved in ROTC before I decided it wasn't the smartest idea in the world (plus they said they'd pay for college...).

Even then, I figured that torture was the wrong thing to do. People will make false testimonies so the torture will end. Evidence gained from torture is never reliable.

The poor tortured souls only want to be let free, and will surely lie to do so.

Here comes the spin:

The U.S. Pentagon responding by e-mail says, "We treat all detainees humanely… and all credible claims are investigated thoroughly…. The abuses Mr. Kurnaz alleges are not only unsubstantiated and implausible, they are simply outlandish."

That's been proven false. The Abu Gharib travesty, and the CIA torture planes exist. The Pentagon knows it, but they're too scared to admit the truth for sake of "national security" (aka protecting their buddies).

Kurnaz, who has told his story to European investigators, says "[It] doesn’t matter whatever they will say. The truth will not change… this is the truth."

And the truth shall be known. Don't worry my friend, these people will be exposed for the wolves in sheeps clothing they are. Protecting the US in foreign wars? Please, stop lying. Americans aren't that stupid.

Kurnaz says he was questioned in Afghanistan about Osama bin Laden, al Qaeda and the Taliban. He answered truthfully, he says, and told them repeatedly to call the German government and verify who he was. But they continued to torture him, he says. "They used to beat me when my head was underwater…they beat me into my stomach….I had to inhale the water," he tells Pelley.

God help us all...Is this what awaits us in the FEMA camps?

www.cbsnews.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

reply to post by biggie smalls


Here's a little more from the article (CBS news). I don't think they'd have any reason to lie about this.

He says he was then brought to Guantanamo as one of the first "enemy combatants." His treatment there, he says, included repeated beatings at the hands of soldiers in riot gear, sleep-deprivation and solitary confinement. "It's dark inside, no lights and they can punish you in isolation… by coldness or…heat. They have special air conditioners. Very strong. They can turn it very cold or very hot."

Sounds like torture to me.

After a landmark Supreme Court ruling in 2004, Kurnaz was visited by an American lawyer, who successfully sued the U.S. government to release his classified file. That file contained information from the FBI, German Intelligence and even the U.S. military pointing to his innocence. But after a series of Kafkaesque military tribunals and review boards, he remained in Guantanamo until 2006.

Kurnaz' lawyer, Baher Azmy, says there may be many more cases like Kurnaz’s at the offshore prison. "In Guantanamo, no detainee has ever been able to genuinely present evidence before a neutral judge and so as absurd as Murat Kurnaz's case is, I assure you, there are many, many dozens just as tenuous," Azmy tells Pelley.

The US and Germany knew he was innocent back in 2004, but he stayed in jail for 2 more years. Why are we only hearing about this now, in March of 2008?

After 911, we had the Patriot Act. That law set a dangerous precedent for holding detainees indefinitely without charging them. Prior to this law, cops were allowed to hold you for something like 1 night before letting you go.

Now you can be held for as long as they see fit. This has been used against terror suspects more than civilians so far, but I don't see why this won't expand to fit true patriots and dissenters.

This man was locked in Guatanamo, an innocent man, being tortured for no reason. Torture cannot be justified on guilty people either. I'd rather see the death penalty than prolonged pain for these people.

We don't want our own people to suffer through torture, how can we possibly torture others?

This isn't an isolated case. There's been plenty of abuse and torture in the last few years. Check your news clippings for verification.

From what I've gathered, there are literally hundreds of terrorist suspects imprisoned without representation or trial. Some of them are US citizens and have been there since 9/11.

A horrific situation. Moral of the story? Do not piss the government off.

Nothing new to a European. In 2006 more tv-specials were aired about Kurnaz and his case. Probably because of the involvement of the German Bundesamt it was quickly silenced at the time.

Nontheless a horific case of human rights abuse. One in many.

The essence of his 'crime' was just prior to his departure for Pakistan he started coming in a mosque (in Bremen) with connection to the hijackers (in Hamburg). There's much more to his story than CBS tells.

I'll try googling some old stories. It might have been in 2004 or 5 his story broke in European media.

Google gives 144000 hits on his name.

On the first page this Washington Post article from March 2005 appears to be the oldest.

www.washingtonpost.com...

reply to post by biggie smalls


I guess most people don't care about a foreigner being tortured? However, as soon as McCain starts on his rant about how much he hates the Vietnamese for torturing him, some stand right by his side.

This man was TORTURED for years, illegally might I add (also ignoring the human rights abuses). We do the same thing to innocent Iraqis and Afghanis, as well as our fellow citizens in US jails.

What has the "land of the free and brave" come to? We've stooped below what I ever could have imagined.

From the OP:

Docke says the police report was sent to the Americans. And Kurnaz claims his interrogations at Kandahar turned to torture. He told 60 Minutes that American troops held his head underwater.

"They used to beat me when my head is underwater. They beat me into my stomach and everything," he says.

"They were hitting you in the stomach while you're head was underwater so that you'd have to take a breath?" Pelley asks,

"Right. I had to drink. I had to…how you say it?" Kurnaz replies.

"Inhale. Inhale the water," Pelley says.

"I had to inhale the water. Right," Kurnaz says.

Kurnaz says the Americans used a device to shock him with electricity that made his body go numb. And he says he was hoisted up on chains suspended by his arms from the ceiling of an aircraft hangar for five days.

"Every five or six hours they came and pulled me back down. And the doctor came to watch if I can still survive to not. He looked into my eyes. He checked my heart. And when he said okay, then they pulled me back up," Kurnaz says.

"The point of the doctor's visit was not to treat you. It was to see if you could take another six hours hanging from the ceiling?" Pelley asks.

"Right," Kurnaz says.

"I suspect you know that the U.S. military will deny this happened. The U.S. military will deny that you were shocked. It will deny your head was held in a bucket of water. It will deny that you hung from a ceiling for days at a time," Pelley remarks.

"Doesn't matter whatever they will say. The truth will not change," Kurnaz says.

"And you're telling me in this interview that this is the truth?" Pelley asks.

"This is the truth," Kurnaz insists.

Kurnaz isn't alone in these allegations: other freed prisoners have described electric shocks at Kandahar, and even U.S. troops have admitted beating prisoners who were hanging by their arms. Kurnaz's story fits a pattern.

Originally posted by SteveR
A horrific situation. Moral of the story? Do not piss the government off.

Yeah, tell Noah about the flood.

What's amazing is that people absolutely refuse to see torture for what it is, even when it's shoved in their face over many years. Oh, I'm sorry. It can't be torture because it's not happening to you. And it must be OK because you were given a good excuse as to why it's necessary. Go ahead and laugh now lemmings, because you're next.

I just posted a thread a couple of weeks ago where a CANADIAN resident was held and tortured at Gitmo, and they threatened to RAPE him, if he didn't get give over a coerced "confession" of his wrong doings. This stuff is becoming rampant.

I do not think these types of incidents are rampant at all, instead they are S.O.P. (Standard Operating Procedure) this is now the norm. Every single person should be alarmed and very scared, this is not about foreigners, it is not about some brown people half way across the globe. History has shown us that things like this do eventually get turned onto the citizens of the country that perpetrates these acts. It is simply a matter of time.

Slowly people will begin to accept these acts in the name of "National Security" and the masses will continue to let this Government run rampant over everything that this country USED to stand for. It is my belief that people are totally apathetic, clueless, or they are outraged and simply have no clue what to about it.

DD: I'd love to read about the Canadian, can you direct me to the thread I missed? The only Canadian citizen I was aware of was Mahar Arar. Truly a scary scenario when someone can be taken away while switching airplanes at JFK. No attorney, no phone call, bag and shipped to Syria.

Torture is nothing new. It has become a tactic and an interrogation technique since the "War On Terror" began and people have turned a blind eye to it. The MSM has refused to tell these stories. TPTB do not want Average Joe to have knowledge of these things, and sadly Average Joe has been happy to not know. Only someone seeking this news will be aware of it, it certainly won't show up on the 10 o clock "News"